Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun  (Read 45990 times)

Moonsword

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Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« on: 26 December 2011, 20:54:17 »
Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun

Season's Greetings!  This Boxing Day, we're opening up an appropriately boxy vehicle for your examination, the Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun.  Developed by Quikscell Corp., makers of fine vehicles everywhere, the Hetzer was intended to make defense easier for poorer worlds. The entire design from start to finish is an exercise in cost-cutting measures to the point that some suspect it was accountants, not engineers, who actually designed the Hetzer.  Few ascribe any benign motives to those same accountants and crews are frequently regarded by themselves if no one else as being equally low cost.  To quote TRO3030, “Those manning a Hetzer usually fall into one of three groups: those being disciplined, those who lack the talent or initiative to get out, and those who take a perverse pride in going to battle with the little chance of survival.”  They're most commonly found in backwater militias or Periphery forces, but House Liao has taken the vehicle to heart, ordering large numbers with a curious knock-on benefit to other customers by forcing Quikscell to ship the vehicles with the wiring and other systems installed correctly, something Quikscell has a habit of not bothering with.

The Hetzer lives up to its reputation and, perhaps, just a bit past it in the right hands.  A wheeled chassis is marginally cheaper overall than a tracked design, and part of that is the reduced engine size.  A mere 140-rated SitiCide ICE is sufficient to drive the chassis to 64 kph, slow by modern standards but enough to pace your typical dirtbag militia tank (a Scorpion) and more acceptable in an era where even some lights were going the same speed.  Although TRO3039 speaks in dire terms about the armor, 6 tons of StarSlab/6 standard plate goes a lot further when you don't have a turret to cover, generating an arrangement of 30/22/22.  It's hardly great but it's passable.  The Hetzer's real survivability problem isn't the armor, it's the combination of the eyebrow-raising armament and the fact that wheeled vehicles aren't great at staying mobile.  Your gun (singular) is certainly worthy of being the sole armament.  The Crusher 5H Autocannon/20 is a brutal weapon, fully capable of punching straight through certain light 'Mechs and then scratching the paint of whatever's behind them, and with four tons of ammo, you've got enough endurance to last as long as your armor usually will using the precision ammo that'll let you hit those light 'Mechs.  Back in the Succession Wars, you could easily toss a ton of flak ammo in there to punch out VTOLs or fighters silly enough to get in your forward arc and still have plenty for a routine engagement.  Although they're not likely to be mobile for long if only because of the rubble, a Hetzer is one of those special joys that makes fighting in the concrete jungle such a wonderful way to build characters.  (No, that's not a typo.)

Inevitably, a certain number of variants have turned up over the years, and they remind me a bit of Swaybacks by centering on trading out the big gun for a different load of firepower.  The simplest switches down to a class 10 autocannon, adding another ton each of ammunition and armor.  My recommendation: Carry alternative loads.  Flak, precision, flechette, whatever.  Trust me, you've got room, and with a 34/26/26 armor spread, you'll live longer to use it.  Eschewing that problem entirely is the laser model, trading out for four medium lasers, the heat sinks to use them, and an armor layout identical to the AC/10 model's.  The LRM model steps back from the action with two LRM 15s fed by four tons of ammunition.  A little more mobile and significantly tougher than the LRM carrier, there's some uses here.  Free idea: One ton of Thunders and three tons of semi-guided or Narc ammo will make a real mess.  A scout variant plunges right back into the fray, removing two tons of ammo for a remote sensor dispenser with 30 sensors.  This one has some uses, allowing you to sweep an area and leave sensors behind to cover it as you advance provided you have units able to monitor them.  The final variant out there is an SRM model, trading the atuocannon and one ton of ammo for five SRM 6s.  If you use this one, operate it like and alongside the AC/20-armed original, letting that one punch someone's armor out then burying them in SRM fire.  If it lacks the turret of a light SRM carrier, the Hetzer (SRM) has thicker armor to compensate for it.

Still, time marches on and even the humble Hetzer has received some upgrades since the Clans came back to the Inner Sphere.  The first to turn up was part of Record Sheets: Upgrades, now incorporated into RS3058U Unabridged's IS volume, and it's a real doozy.  Unlike the original, which I somehow suspect is still being sold to backwater militias, this one uses a fusion engine.  The weight savings aren't applied straight to a bigger gun, although you're now packing an LB 20-X cluster cannon.  Instead, another ton of ammo was added (by default, solid shot, but I lean toward three tons of cluster myself) while a half-ton was applied to each flank, bringing the armor up to 7.5 tons with 30 points on all facings.  Later on, this model was the basis for a sealed variant.  The armor was replaced, now 6.5 tons of heavy ferro-fibrous with 32 points on each facing, and this model also adds CASE and swaps the LB-X for a RAC/5 fed by three tons of ammunition.  Environmental sealing is there, of course.  The wildcard here is the use of C3I.  Exactly why this vehicle is restricted to the AFFS and CCAF, neither one a large user of C3I, and isn't available to the Word or ComStar, I don't know.  Late-breaking news: It's available to the Word and went extinct after the Jihad.  Considering the specialized nature, I'm not really surprised.

During the Jihad, an unknown (or, rather, carefully undisclosed) party advertised with FrontierTech, publishers of the universe report presented to fans by XTRO: Boondocks, that they were responsible for creating the Jagdpanzer II, a major refit of the original Hetzer that's probably from somewhere in the Lyran Alliance.  The 180-rated XLFE gives it the speed to pace a Crab at full gallop under normal conditions.  The heat sinks go straight into supporting the six tons of stealth armor, laid out in the familiar 30/22/22 pattern.  The forward mount is now home to a Defiance Thunder Ultra/20 autocannon fed by four tons of ammunition, providing an absolutely crushing potential blow, and each sponson has a machine gun with a half-ton of ammo.  (Predictably, there's no CASE.)  ECM is present to 'power' the stealth armor.  Although the price is high for what you get, I can see some potential.  Open field operations are a lot safer, while the ability to evade in the concrete jungle (probably more due to the ECM than the armor itself) is much greater.  Whether it's worth it on a platform that's not that much less vulnerable than usual to being immobilized is debatable.

Operating the Hetzer requires even more cleverness than a Hunchback, which has the advantage of being sturdy for its size and difficult to immobilize, two things Hetzers aren't, and further has a broader arc of fire.  It's not that difficult to get out of a Hetzer's forward arc in close maneuvers, so you need to either find spots to lurk where that's not an option, make such spots (minefields help), or provide a way to punish an enemy who decides to flank your Hetzers, assuming they're not operating in support of something to cover its blind spots.  At the same time, while a city might be a natural place, you want to avoid dropping buildings and scattering rubble piles that will block a Hetzer's ability to maneuver.  If you have to, accept a relative targeting disadvantage to put the AC/20 on target - you don't have the speed to really evade that much fire anyway, while a few solid hits from a class 20 (or 5 SRM 6s) will make it a moot point.  The LRM and AC/10 models have smaller problems in that regard; keep them back to take advantage of their longer reach and keep an enemy further away from your blind spots.

Hetzers are a classic example of an enemy that's dangerous if you ignore it and easily dealt with if you don't and have the right tools on hand.  Disable them through whatever means necessary - LB 10-Xs are the usual superlative choice, but there are other options - and then blow the armor from a safe distance or outside the forward arc.  Minefields can hem one in just as readily as they can you, so consider applying them to cut one's maneuver option.  If you're dealing with hidden unit rules, bring active probes and if necessary, bring ECM modules tuned to disrupt jamming efforts, too.  Above all, don't dismiss the thing as a non-threat and suddenly find a Hetzer at short range with good numbers.  That's not a mistake you'll make very often before you're dead.

References: As usual, your first stop is the Master Unit List, with a detour to examine the Jagdpanzer II.  This time around, the only miniature at CamoSpecs is in Taurian colors, solidly reinforcing the Hetzer's image as a backwater mainstay.
« Last Edit: 28 December 2011, 18:41:01 by Moonsword »

Wrangler

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #1 on: 26 December 2011, 21:56:57 »
Thanks for the entertaining and informative article, Moonsword. (P.S. Happy Boxing Day to you.)

I not seen in my limited stretch of gaming, Hetzers used well in pickup games.  However, i do like the vehicle even they are potential death traps for its crews. 

I like how Kevin Killiany wrote up in the last printed MWDA To Ride the Chimera about a Hetzer vehicle crew trying to survive a Liao invasion of their planet.
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Ian Sharpe

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #2 on: 26 December 2011, 22:19:01 »
Not a bad vehicle, the wheels help with the speed on roads, which is helpful given the lack of a turret.  The newer variants help with building a force from a single chassis, always a plus in my eyes.

SCC

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #3 on: 26 December 2011, 22:34:40 »
The Laser variant shows just how much ammo this things carries, you swap out a ballistic weapon for an energy equivalent one and you come out ahead, 1.6 tons to be precise, 1 ton goes to armor, where the other 0.5 tons goes is a mystery (power amps are the only pieces of equipment to round to tenths of a ton under standard rules) unless it's turreted now
The other variant with math problems is the remote sensor one, a single remote sensor dispenser weighs half (0.5) a ton and has 30 inter grated sensors, again where that missing mass goes is a mystery
That said this thing is probably the cheapest way to field a 20-class autocannon, so you can put several of them onto the field and mass them for something very nasty, a LRM model backstopping them to give them long range fire while they close is probably a good idea, use the LB-X variant if you can for the extra range and the ability to deal with infantry

va_wanderer

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #4 on: 27 December 2011, 00:05:10 »
The one variant not noted is the actual original Hetzer- which was notable in that it was a -drone-.

Yes, the first writeup for our boxy-good budget gun was robotically controlled (noted as the Furbish Robocheck). Other than that quirk, the stats are identical to the TRO 3039 version in every way. (Dragon #114, M. Weis & K. Stein authors)

Isanova

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #5 on: 27 December 2011, 04:58:22 »
It's a beautiful design, utterly horrific when supported by infantry and double-blind rules.

I wonder, what are the cost/benefit issues for switching to a fuel cell engine?

Would also love to see...
-a Heavy Rifle/SRM-2 version
-a minelayer/minesweeper version
-a veh-stealth refit for the CC's militias
  (and as a Fa-shih carrier... sensors show enemy BA over there, surprise!)

Seems like a great cheap veh base, like the light srm-carrier is... only with a heavier load and less technical aspects (due to no turret). It's a great all-purpose kit, and seems to be a marketing ploy for driving sales of heavy weapons moreso than selling the vehicle itself!
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SCC

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #6 on: 27 December 2011, 05:05:37 »
Fuel cell gives you 4 tons to play with
That said the intro date on this thing seems to be about 300 years late (it or something like should have come out about the time of the AC-20 itself)

Diablo48

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #7 on: 27 December 2011, 05:37:20 »
I like the Hetzer even looking at it from the perspective of a Clan second line garrison force.  It is cheap enough to gamble with in ambushes as mentioned previously, but the real use I see for it is bodyguard duty where that monster of a gun will keep people from messing with the vastly more important fire support unit it is protecting.  This should work especially well when you can prepare a ridge to provide your 'Mechs with partial cover and totally screen the Hetzers until you want to beat someone down with them.


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Drasius

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #8 on: 27 December 2011, 05:42:17 »
There's not much more fun than causing assaults to run screaming in fear of a wheeled tank. The fact that you can have 2 in the same hex is just gravy.

Diablo48

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #9 on: 27 December 2011, 06:11:03 »
There's not much more fun than causing assaults to run screaming in fear of a wheeled tank. The fact that you can have 2 in the same hex is just gravy.

You forgot to mention the fact that even when combined those two wheeled tanks weigh less than the 'Mech and cost less than most light 'Mechs.


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Isanova

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #10 on: 27 December 2011, 08:54:51 »
There's not much more fun than causing assaults to run screaming in fear of a wheeled tank. The fact that you can have 2 in the same hex is just gravy.

Now I'm envisioning a few companies of them patrolling the city's main thoroughfares, 300 meters apart. Talk about keeping the locals in line  ;D
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Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #11 on: 27 December 2011, 11:22:38 »
The Laser variant shows just how much ammo this things carries, you swap out a ballistic weapon for an energy equivalent one and you come out ahead, 1.6 tons to be precise, 1 ton goes to armor, where the other 0.5 tons goes is a mystery (power amps are the only pieces of equipment to round to tenths of a ton under standard rules) unless it's turreted now

They round to half-tons per the errata.  Designs are legally allowed to be underweight, meaning that there's actually nothing wrong anywhere.  If you think there's errata, report it in the RS3039 Unabridged errata thread and do Xotl a favor by following the errata template.

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #12 on: 28 December 2011, 00:36:08 »
I like the AC/20 love your Christmas articles are giving, but you forgot to cover the Jagdpanzer II. I dont have the XTRO for it, but judging by the name, it must be intended to be a Wehrmacht descendant.

Kojak

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #13 on: 28 December 2011, 05:32:02 »
Great article. I will second the request for coverage of the Jagdpanzer, it's by far the most interesting variant and I was sorely disappointed it didn't make the transition to a production model in TRO Prototypes.


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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #14 on: 28 December 2011, 07:55:52 »
I'm guessing its the XLFE and the Stealth armor that couldn't justify the cost for production.

va_wanderer

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #15 on: 28 December 2011, 11:18:42 »
I'm guessing its the XLFE and the Stealth armor that couldn't justify the cost for production.

Honestly, even a Stealth Hetzer would work wonders with a SFE and none of the extra bells and whistles. The extra speed was nice, but un-needed for urban work IMHO.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #16 on: 28 December 2011, 11:27:15 »
The wildcard here is the use of C3I.  Exactly why this vehicle is restricted to the AFFS and CCAF, neither one a large user of C3I, and isn't available to the Word or ComStar, I don't know.

Error.  It originally was C3 slave, and the design was changed to c3i and the MUL availabilities weren't changed.  MUL updated now :).
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #17 on: 28 December 2011, 15:45:44 »
I love hiding these things in cities to screw with people.  Few things are as fun as a surprise boom-sticking or three.
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Martius

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #18 on: 28 December 2011, 16:47:14 »
Honestly, even a Stealth Hetzer would work wonders with a SFE and none of the extra bells and whistles. The extra speed was nice, but un-needed for urban work IMHO.

IMO stealth is not that important in urban area. Range rarely matters and PBIs ignore SA anyway.

Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #19 on: 28 December 2011, 17:57:14 »
I like the AC/20 love your Christmas articles are giving, but you forgot to cover the Jagdpanzer II. I dont have the XTRO for it, but judging by the name, it must be intended to be a Wehrmacht descendant.

It didn't get covered because when I checked the MUL to make sure I had all the variants, there was nothing mentioned.  (Note carefully that it's not called a Hetzer there - garbage in, garbage out.)  I'll deal with that in a little while.

Error.  It originally was C3 slave, and the design was changed to c3i and the MUL availabilities weren't changed.  MUL updated now :).

And here I assumed there was some strange, deeper truth to the matter.  I'll update the article in a few minutes when I put the Jagdpanzer in.

IMO stealth is not that important in urban area. Range rarely matters and PBIs ignore SA anyway.

It's not useful in standard rules but stealth armor (combined with the necessary ECM) can really interfere with detection under double blind.  Combine that with the gain in the ability to close in open field situations and I can see a case being made.  I'd rather put it on something a little more flexible, though.

EDIT: Article updated.
« Last Edit: 28 December 2011, 18:42:14 by Moonsword »

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #20 on: 28 December 2011, 23:09:09 »
Excellent analysis there. No CASE really screws such an expensive unit. From the wording, it means half ton of MG ammo per sponson?

Martius

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #21 on: 29 December 2011, 04:56:59 »
It's not useful in standard rules but stealth armor (combined with the necessary ECM) can really interfere with detection under double blind.  Combine that with the gain in the ability to close in open field situations and I can see a case being made.  I'd rather put it on something a little more flexible, though.

In open field the Stealth armor is a life safer, true. Yet the Jagdpanzer still has a rather short ranged main gun, which means it will be in short range of an opponent's weapons before it gets into optimal range for its own cannon.

I do not play double blind often but I when I do I prefer tanks with a turret. Still, I will give this Hetzer a try next time. Thanks for pointing that out.

Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #22 on: 29 December 2011, 17:38:14 »
Excellent analysis there. No CASE really screws such an expensive unit. From the wording, it means half ton of MG ammo per sponson?

I wasn't clear enough.  It's a half-ton total.  200 rounds of MG ammo on anything with fewer guns than a Piranha often gets a snarky remark from me.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #23 on: 29 December 2011, 18:51:21 »
The Hetzer is one of those units who;s tactical value can oft outweigh it's actual value as a unit. It's a cheap, disposable and crappy vehicle, yet it has a punch that is far too big to ignore. Used well, they can make great area-denial tools (Nobody wants to risk getting thwacked by that big AC) or, at the very least, can do damage out of all proportion to their value.

IIRC, the only description of a Hetzer from the crew's PoV comes from To Ride the Chimera. In it, the crew are willing to throw themselves into battle because their retirement package sucks anyway. Can't think of a better reason myself.
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Diablo48

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #24 on: 29 December 2011, 19:55:57 »
The Hetzer is one of those units who;s tactical value can oft outweigh it's actual value as a unit. It's a cheap, disposable and crappy vehicle, yet it has a punch that is far too big to ignore. Used well, they can make great area-denial tools (Nobody wants to risk getting thwacked by that big AC) or, at the very least, can do damage out of all proportion to their value.

IIRC, the only description of a Hetzer from the crew's PoV comes from To Ride the Chimera. In it, the crew are willing to throw themselves into battle because their retirement package sucks anyway. Can't think of a better reason myself.

That was exactly why I was thinking of using it as a bodyguard.  Even if the Hetzer never fires a shot in the entire battle, if its presence can keep some allied LRM Carriers safe it was more than worth the investment.


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Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #25 on: 29 December 2011, 20:59:06 »
There's a reason I keep recommending Demolishers and Hunchbacks for that role: No one in their right mind really wants to get 3-6 hexes from one.  Hetzers aren't quite as good in that role due to lacking the width of fire arc I'd really like for it but they can definitely be an imposing presence.

Diablo48

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #26 on: 29 December 2011, 21:46:59 »
There's a reason I keep recommending Demolishers and Hunchbacks for that role: No one in their right mind really wants to get 3-6 hexes from one.  Hetzers aren't quite as good in that role due to lacking the width of fire arc I'd really like for it but they can definitely be an imposing presence.

A quick check on the wiki gives me these numbers.

Hetzer: 664,000 C-bills, 565 BV
Demolisher: 2,151,000 C-bills, 973 BV
Hunchback: 3,467,875 C-bills, 1,041 BV

Thus, while the Demolisher and Hunchback are most certainly more capable, the Hetzer is enough cheaper for me to favor it in a defensive roll where you do not have to pay to bring it to the enemy.  Going by BV you can bring two Hetzers for either of the larger machines, but the real win is in C-bills where you can field roughly a lance of Hetzers for the price of the larger machines.  The numbers do get a little ugly if you start loosing vehicles because it is a whole lot more expensive to replace a totaled vehicle than it is to repair a damaged unit, but if played properly an area denial tool should not take too much fire and garrison units are mostly there as insurance anyways so the cheaper Hetzer will likely be the better investment.


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Welshman

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #27 on: 30 December 2011, 01:13:07 »
Park two Hetzer's in the same hex, one facing North and the other South. Who needs a turret anyway? :)
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #28 on: 30 December 2011, 04:46:29 »
You know, reading this article I have a new goal in life. A Hetzer IIC with twin UAC20s.

Diablo48

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #29 on: 30 December 2011, 05:51:28 »
You know, reading this article I have a new goal in life. A Hetzer IIC with twin UAC20s.

I am not sure about mounting two, but you could make a very nice variant with a simple upgrade to a UAC and pile the freed tonnage into armor.  The cost stays down, but it gets significantly better with thicker armor, more firepower, and increased range.  Really, the only problem with it is the creative shot placement of your typical Clan vehicle crews which is not something that can be easily overcome.


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