Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun  (Read 46084 times)

tomaddamz

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #120 on: 31 July 2013, 09:20:34 »
Did you remember to only apply to wieght based mark-up to the base vehicle and not the pods, Maskerade?
I went looking at Tech Manual page 285, specifically costing the Hephaestus where they show the prime configuration getting the omni multiplier.  If there is an errata I cannot find that would be awesome as it would make an omni Hetzer about 4,000 C-Bills cheaper than standard.
« Last Edit: 31 July 2013, 09:22:29 by tomaddamz »
Saying that because the equipment isn't up-to-the-minute, bleeding-edge tech therefore not a threat is like saying an M2 Browning isn't dangerous to modern infantry because it is 100 years old.

tomaddamz

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #121 on: 31 July 2013, 09:32:51 »
Hetzers are typically a defense unit, so IDF LRMs and Mortars might not be all that popular... After all it's most likely your own town you're blowing up!
I'm not exactly popular shooting holes in my own house when people break in, but spackle is cheap and I still have my house when I am through...the point being that being defensive means you don't have a choice when the enemy comes, the enemy gets that choice.  Unless you want to surrender the city to "spare them the damage" you are giving up the terrain the Hetzer functions most effectively in.

Sometimes you have a choice, other times that choice is forced upon you.
Saying that because the equipment isn't up-to-the-minute, bleeding-edge tech therefore not a threat is like saying an M2 Browning isn't dangerous to modern infantry because it is 100 years old.

Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #122 on: 31 July 2013, 11:58:17 »
Guys, take the OmniHetzer debate to Fan Designs.  Fan Articles is for commentary and review of canon material, not discussing hypothetical variants in depth.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #123 on: 02 August 2015, 22:33:03 »
Am I the only one that has noticed that the LRM variant is the only vehicle packing heavy LRM firepower in the sub-50 ton space pre-clans?

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #125 on: 03 August 2015, 02:49:18 »
The Hunter only has a single LRM-20, while the Hetzer (LRM) has 2 X LRM 15, the same as the Catapult, one of the classic Missile Boats

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #126 on: 03 August 2015, 03:57:07 »
That's only 10 fewer missiles.  There's also the upgraded Hunter, which has paired -15 racks with Artemis IV.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #127 on: 03 August 2015, 08:44:45 »
It's a matter of taste. I think the Hunter's added speed and mobility make it a superior overall combatant, but for force multiplication via funky ammo, the Hetzer's greater number of racks means it can affect larger areas faster.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #128 on: 03 August 2015, 09:25:56 »
Comparing an ICE powered gun carriage to a fusion powered one...
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A. Lurker

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #129 on: 03 August 2015, 11:09:23 »
Compared to the standard Hunter, the LRM Hetzer yields speed, terrain handling, and...oh, right, that rear-mounted flamer...but has half again as many missile tubes and slightly greater ammo endurance. Its wheeled chassis makes it decidedly more of an urban fighter in my book given all the terrain types it can't handle that tracks can, but on the right battlefield it has a clear edge in throw-weight.

Aside from not being "pre-Clan" anymore anyway, the 3054 upgrade version of the Hunter ironically starts to look actually more similar to exactly this Hetzer than to the original Hunter -- it's no longer faster than the Hetzer, its armor is thinner (which wasn't the case before), and the cost of its Artemis systems is that it can carry only eight shots per rack. It's still tracked and lacks an explosive fuel tank critical hit due to its still-present fusion engine, but by this point the LRM Hetzer starts to look downright appealing otherwise.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #130 on: 03 August 2015, 13:06:23 »
Speaking of the Hetzer, are there any variants that are equipped with Sniper Artillery Cannon? It just seems like a logical fit...
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #131 on: 03 August 2015, 13:09:55 »
Speaking of the Hetzer, are there any variants that are equipped with Sniper Artillery Cannon? It just seems like a logical fit...
I can picture the cannon propelling the vehicle the opposite direction when it's first fired.  ;D
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #132 on: 03 August 2015, 13:59:23 »
Speaking of the Hetzer, are there any variants that are equipped with Sniper Artillery Cannon? It just seems like a logical fit...

No canon artillery or artillery cannon variants I'm aware of.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #133 on: 03 August 2015, 14:43:36 »
Speaking of the Hetzer, are there any variants that are equipped with Sniper Artillery Cannon? It just seems like a logical fit...
;D
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #134 on: 03 August 2015, 17:41:38 »
;D


I take it as a good thing, then. :)
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #135 on: 03 August 2015, 18:38:05 »
Quoted the wrong post.  Meant to say this:

I can picture the cannon propelling the vehicle the opposite direction when it's first fired.  ;D
;D
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AldanFerrox

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #136 on: 03 August 2015, 19:22:07 »
A friend of mine used a selfmade Hetzer variant with a Sniper Cannon some time ago. He even made a mini of it (he cut down a barrel from a Marksmen and glued it to the front of the Hetzer).
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #137 on: 03 August 2015, 20:00:25 »
Maybe a Thumper, but a Sniper?  there be no room for ammo, even if the armor was shaved to half its original.

A 15 ton Thumper with 3 tons of ammo and 4 tons of armor is doable.

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AldanFerrox

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #138 on: 03 August 2015, 20:09:58 »
Maybe a Thumper, but a Sniper?  there be no room for ammo, even if the armor was shaved to half its original.

A 15 ton Thumper with 3 tons of ammo and 4 tons of armor is doable.

A Sniper Artillery Cannon, not a Sniper Artillery Piece. It only weights 15 tons.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #140 on: 05 August 2015, 15:49:48 »
Never been much a fan of the Hetzer.  For AC/20 fun i usually prefer the speedy Saladin or a Demolisher for double the fun.  As far as the LRM version the Hunter (Ammo) variant has always been my go to vee in light support vehicles. 

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #141 on: 05 August 2015, 16:14:18 »
Proper use of a Hetzer.

it's too bad we never got a tracked version of the hetzer in BT. sure, wheeled has it;'s advantages in urban fighting, but given the preference for non-urban fighting in the setting, you'd think someone would have started making 'open field' hetzers using a tracked chassis and maybe a longer ranged gun (like say an AC10).

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #142 on: 05 August 2015, 16:39:00 »
it's too bad we never got a tracked version of the hetzer in BT. sure, wheeled has it;'s advantages in urban fighting, but given the preference for non-urban fighting in the setting, you'd think someone would have started making 'open field' hetzers using a tracked chassis and maybe a longer ranged gun (like say an AC10).

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You were saying?

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #143 on: 06 August 2015, 02:22:09 »
Took a while but yeah what he said . . .
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #145 on: 06 August 2015, 15:30:35 »
I'm going to need make a unit based on Girls and Panzers after this. 
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Nahuris

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #146 on: 06 August 2015, 17:23:55 »
I love fielding Hetzers -- for their cost, they bring a surprising amount of usefulness to the field.
That said, you have to remember that there are reasons these vehicles are so inexpensive. You do get what you pay for --- although in Battletech, that isn't always true --- you can pay huge BV points for a Hellstar and watch an opponent's Pack Hunter take it's head off on turn 2 of a game, prior to you hitting anything, as of yet.

However, with the Hetzer, the points are far more in line with what you get, and what is costs to lose the unit. And you will lose some, as they tend to get more attention than they may warrant, due to the AC/20. And they also tend to get pillboxed frequently enough, that the limited arc of fire can be hurtful.

On the other hand, they do bring an AC/20 to the field, and they do it at a cost that begs for it to be spammed.

As to the other variants, the LRM is the only other one I use -- and it is surprisingly useful..... being far more useful in most games, that would be apparent at first glance. For one thing, as has been pointed out, you get the LRM throw weight of a Catapult or Crusader, at the same general ground speed, but at a good chunk less than half the BV2 cost, and it has better ammo endurance. Now, you do have some terrain restrictions, but you also have the option of indirect fire, and a long enough range, you can fire from those areas you can get to. Lastly, this design is great for helping to offset the cost of TAG units on the field, or for carrying out specialty ammo, and acting as a support unit, to provide smoke, or minefields, as needed.

And while the Hunter is better in some areas, it is also more expensive, and sometimes, those extra points can make a big difference elsewhere, when building a unit. They both have their place... and neither is superior to the other.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #147 on: 06 August 2015, 17:47:29 »
Another advantage for the LRM Hetzer is the four tons of ammo. You can lay a lot of minefields with two tons of Thunders ...
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Colt Ward

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #148 on: 06 August 2015, 18:22:33 »
The Hetzer is one of those designs I think we should see lots of tinkering with, we have several L1 versions that IMO should be updated . . . LB-10X for the AC/10, maybe some MMLs for the SRM version.  Especially with a FCE swap.

Do we know if they are really still being produced into the 3140s?  The only thing I can think of is the Mansu-ra FWL story bit where a single plain Hetzer tackled a Andurien lance, scoring I think two mission kills before it was wrecked.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun
« Reply #149 on: 06 August 2015, 18:28:56 »
I honestly can't see the Hetzer being phased out of production, given how cheap it is.
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