Vehicle of the Week: Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun

[Sami Jumppanen]

Even that LRM version, I just don't see any advantages for it (other than era availability) over the 3054 upgrade to the Hunter- the tracks give it better mobility in the standard battlefield, the LRMs have Artemis included, and the armor is only slightly less.

I've long believed that, much like the Hunchback, doing something with a Hetzer other than strapping an AC-20 style weapon to it is a crime against the vehicle. Much like the Urbanmech, it has one job- and it does it well. Trying to get it to do other things may work, but isn't worth modding the Hetzer compared to just finding something else to do the other job. In this case, the Hunter is simply a better choice- and probably cheaper in the end- than buying a Hetzer and modding it.

I think that people who can get Hunters don't need Hetzers. Rest will do with whatever they can get like Hetzers.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I think that people who can get Hunters don't need Hetzers.

I would disagree, and say you'd want Hetzers to protect the Hunters.  It's like seeding a Hunchback in an Archer lance, or like peanut butter and chocolate.

[tomaddamz]

Even that LRM version, I just don't see any advantages for it (other than era availability) over the 3054 upgrade to the Hunter- the tracks give it better mobility in the standard battlefield, the LRMs have Artemis included, and the armor is only slightly less.

I've long believed that, much like the Hunchback, doing something with a Hetzer other than strapping an AC-20 style weapon to it is a crime against the vehicle. Much like the Urbanmech, it has one job- and it does it well. Trying to get it to do other things may work, but isn't worth modding the Hetzer compared to just finding something else to do the other job. In this case, the Hunter is simply a better choice- and probably cheaper in the end- than buying a Hetzer and modding it.

Your ammo bins are nowhere near as deep, you have 8 rounds per launcher, the Artemis IV is ballast if you are not using compatible missiles, your cost of acquisition is higher and being Artemis IV you need line of sight to the target, and conversely the target gets line of sight to you.  I would rather go with a 3026 Hunter, it is a much better vehicle...and cheaper too.

[Aldous]

err... You do know Hetzers are city fighters while Hunters are open field, right?

[JadeHellbringer]

err... You do know Hetzers are city fighters while Hunters are open field, right?

If you're strapping LRM racks on it instead of the AC, I'd say you're not planning on urban combat anymore.

[Kitsune413]

That Hetzer crew in 'To Ride the Chimera' was pretty sobering.

[Sami Jumppanen]

I would disagree, and say you'd want Hetzers to protect the Hunters.  It's like seeding a Hunchback in an Archer lance, or like peanut butter and chocolate.

They might buy a Rommel. IIRC both are built in the same factory. Or maybe an Assault Hunter.

[blitzy]

I posted an MML model on the combat vehicles forum awhile ago that was cheap and functional.  The MML might work better then the Omni or the LRM models.

[JadeHellbringer]

I posted an MML model on the combat vehicles forum awhile ago that was cheap and functional.  The MML might work better then the Omni or the LRM models.

Now THAT I might go for. I miss the hole-punching ability, but a face-full of SRMs still sucks to end up with. And with the ability to throw long-range, the tank gains some utility down the street in addition to the usual alley-ambushes the Hetzer excels at.

You have my attention. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.  ;D

[blitzy]

it can be found here

[Molossian Dog IIC]

If you're strapping LRM racks on it instead of the AC, I'd say you're not planning on urban combat anymore.

Or not. It just means you need to bring more PBIs with you. LRMs are great in urban combat. Lots of LOS-blocking terrain...LOS-ignoring weapon. Perfect match.

[tomaddamz]

Or not. It just means you need to bring more PBIs with you. LRMs are great in urban combat. Lots of LOS-blocking terrain...LOS-ignoring weapon. Perfect match.

And I would agree, from minefields dropping out of the sky to smoke where other people don't want it...and more, the LRM has a place in urban combat.

They might buy a Rommel. IIRC both are built in the same factory. Or maybe an Assault Hunter.

a Rommel is nearly 3 million c-bills, the cost of that vehicle alone buys a lance of 3 standard Hetzer and one LRM Hetzer, the Hunter variant has the virtue of being faster and roughly half the price of the Rommel.

I posted an MML model on the combat vehicles forum awhile ago that was cheap and functional.  The MML might work better then the Omni or the LRM models.

This....this is nice.  {edited to comply with the particular subforum rules...sorry about that, my bad}

What we are seeing here with these examples is that the Hetzer can be more than just a rolling AC/20 that has to get shot before you do.  We haven't even got to "obvious" variants with the Gauss Rifle or the Arrow IV, and believe me there can be even more surprises in your cereal for creative minds.   The joy of the Hetzer, as was stated at page one, it is a great basis for a fleet of vehicles. designed to sell heavy weapons.  With that said, do not make the mistake that  the Hetzer is a tank, it isn't, it's a motorized gun carriage, one that needs to be part of a plan and not the plan itself.

[Moonsword]

Guys, if you're discussing someone's posted design, do it in that thread.  Not in here.

[Alexander Knight]

George of the Jungle says:  "If George want cheap LRM support, George not use Hetzer, George use LRM carrier."

[tomaddamz]

George of the Jungle says:  "If George want cheap LRM support, George not use Hetzer, George use LRM carrier."

George must like spending all of his cash, 2 Hetzer LRM is cheaper than an LRM Carrier .  Throw weight is identical, but Hetzer has better endurance and is arguably more survivable.

[Alexander Knight]

George must like spending all of his cash, 2 Hetzer LRM is cheaper than an LRM Carrier .  Throw weight is identical, but Hetzer has better endurance and is arguably more survivable.

And the Hetzer can't enter light woods and has smaller individual guns

[Diablo48]

The LRM Carrier also has a turret so it can fire as it runs away (for limited definitions of the word "run").

[Jimmyray73]

The LRM Carrier also has a turret so it can fire as it runs away (for limited definitions of the word "run").

Actually, it doesn't. LRM and SRM carriers are like big semi-mobile claymores. They should all have "this side toward enemy" painted on the front.

[Alexander Knight]

Actually, it doesn't. LRM and SRM carriers are like big semi-mobile claymores. They should all have "this side toward enemy" painted on the front.

The Heavy Carrier does.  :)

[tomaddamz]

Ninja'd, see above.

[Grognard]

SRM carriers have turrets.

"While its chassis is identical to its LRM counterpart, the SRM Carrier mounts ten SRM-6 launchers in its turret. "
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM_Carrier

as does the Light SRM carriers.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_SRM_Carrier

I just love using Hetzers in urban combat, especially with supporting infantry and Double Blind Rules.

[Alexander Knight]

SRM carriers have turrets.

"While its chassis is identical to its LRM counterpart, the SRM Carrier mounts ten SRM-6 launchers in its turret. "
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM_Carrier

Sarna is using a turn of phrase, not a technically accurate description.  the 60-ton weapons carriers do not have turrets.

[HazMeat]

I would say that is an equally valid point of view..the Hetzer does well in mass, anything subtracting from that mass reduces combat power.  personally i would make the Hetzer kinda of the Universal Weapon Carrier and just sell everything and every type of armament option out there.

I see it and the Quikscell missile carriers similarly.  If it were up to me, they and whatever other "FRONT TOWARD ENEMY" vehicles Quikscell makes would be streamlined into a set covering the motive types just like the generic APC vehicles do, except instead all using the same standardised weapons fittings.  There'd be a "heavy" chassis or two (not sure whether there should be wheeled, tracked, or both) carrying exactly any two of the smaller carriers' weapons fittings.  (mix or match)  I started something along those lines for use as a "standard" carrier chassis for most purposes, so I just put what I have in the appropriate subforum for linking here.  I also added a wonky variant for flavour. 

[Maskerade]

Having looked at the relative weights, I agree with using omni technology with the hetzer would be a good idea, albeit one that only uses big guns, as to replace a single massive weapon system with a bunch of smaller ones isn't true to the original spirit of the design.

The primary reason is that because the MRM-40 weighs 2 tons less than the AC/20, but both have very similar ranges, so you can pair two Omni-Hetzers (Omnizers?) - one to punch holes and one to sandblast. The MRM hetzer, with 7 tons of ammunition, costs only 43,750 C-bills more than the AC/20 version (adjusted for omni-tech cost modifier), which means that it's certainly within the realm of possibility. Having done some calculations based on the Sarna enry for it, the Omnizer costs 830,000 C-bills, which is a significant cost increase, but not unaffordable. The MRM omnizer costs 873,750, so the pair runs you to roughly 1,704,000 c-bills. For 4 Omnizers, you can get 5 Hetzers, so theoretically the hetzers will be more effective as they have superior numbers, but the Omnizers put out more raw damage, and can work together to do more damage overall due to the complementary nature of their weapons.]

You could even keep the 5 tons of armour, and just chuck on a modular armour kit and a TAG system to allow it to spot for that Arrow IV Omnizer that you have 5 maps away. I think I'm getting carried away now, so I'll stop here.

Whilst some of these musings might belong on a seperate thread for Hetzer designs, I put them here to demonstrate that an Omnizer is a viable idea, if maybe one that would be resisted due to Quickscell's reputation - some might not trust them to actually have the omni-pods be interchangable. Another benefit of omni pods is that if your gun gets damages, it's quicker to change and doesn't require a full vehicle workshop, and you can change your Omnizer's job depending on the enemy you expect to face.

[SCC]

Did you remember to only apply to wieght based mark-up to the base vehicle and not the pods, Maskerade?

[Colt Ward]

Actually, it doesn't. LRM and SRM carriers are like big semi-mobile claymores. They should all have "this side toward enemy" painted on the front.

Where do you put in a request at CamoSpecs again?

[Jimmyray73]

SRM carriers have turrets.

"While its chassis is identical to its LRM counterpart, the SRM Carrier mounts ten SRM-6 launchers in its turret. "
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM_Carrier

as does the Light SRM carriers.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_SRM_Carrier

Unfortunately the record sheets and stats disagree with sarna.net. Doesn't make me love 'em any less though.

[Colt Ward]

Actually the Light SRM Carrier does have a turret . . . but the regular is a box-ish claymore as described.

 . . . mmm claymores . . .

[SCC]

Or not. It just means you need to bring more PBIs with you. LRMs are great in urban combat. Lots of LOS-blocking terrain...LOS-ignoring weapon. Perfect match.

I'd rather 'Mech Mortars, don't actually NEED something to do the spotting, still do full damage to infantry in building and the AOE effect of anti-personal rounds is useful against BA

[Sabelkatten]

I'd rather 'Mech Mortars, don't actually NEED something to do the spotting, still do full damage to infantry in building and the AOE effect of anti-personal rounds is useful against BA

Hetzers are typically a defense unit, so IDF LRMs and Mortars might not be all that popular... After all it's most likely your own town you're blowing up!