Author Topic: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos  (Read 21093 times)

wantec

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‘Mech(ish) of the Week: Boreas


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Today ‘Mech of the Week ventures back into the barely explored realms of the QuadVee. Venturing deeper still we reach the beginnings of the special subset of Omni QuadVees. The Boreas, today’s highlighted unit, is remarkable in that it was the first QuadVee that was prototyped and put into testing, but it entered full production 4th, after the ones already covered here (insert link). This is likely due to the troubles of incorporating Omni technology on a QuadVee.

Before covering the unit stats, I want to cover the artwork for a bit. The Boreas’ dual cockpits are split, the gunner on the turret-like torso, while the pilot is located between the front legs. The fluff of the TRO entry (as well as the entries of the Cyllaros and Arion) describe this split cockpit as a hindrance to operations. I prefer the split cockpit design, it fits in a more tank-like style. This allows the pilot to focus on piloting and the gunner can swing around any direction to take on multiple targets (the rules allow up to 3 primary targets).

I lost track of where, but I read that the two cockpits have all the same controls, data readouts, and screens. The rules state that if one warrior is killed/knocked out the other can take over duties, but at a +2 to-hit for any rolls. While each warrior may be specialized in one set of controls, the split cockpits make more sense as to why each suffers that +2 penalty, at least for a missing gunner. In any case I think it gives the designs more appeal, rather than simply 2 cockpits stacked on top of each other.

Fitting a first of class design, the Boreas uses basic construction materials, standard armor, standard structure, and a standard fusion engine. In order to have a respectable amount of weapons tonnage, armor was limited to 11.5 tons, 85% of maximum, and laid out in a smart pattern, 8 (HD), 26/10 (CT), 21/7 (side torsos), 21 (legs). The last effort to save weight was limiting speed to 4/6, the same as the 15-ton heavier Harpagos. These sacrifices left 12 tons of pod tonnage, not much at first glance, but plenty for Clan weapons.

The Prime variant features an ERPPC, a Medium Pulse Laser, and a Streak SRM6 rack. Great choices all around, and I can see why it is the primary variant. A long range head-capping weapon, mid-range crit-seekers and even a weapon to help a little with fast harassers at mid-ranges as well. Using only the base 10 Laser Heat Sinks, a top speed alpha strike will barely cause it heat problems.

Now the A and B variants highlight some of the deficiencies of the HAG series. The A variant has a long HAG 20 with 2 tons of ammo. The B variant has a Streak LRM 20 with the same amount of ammo. The HAG has a bit longer range 1/2/4 hexes at S/M/L ranges. But the Streak LRMs will deliver full damage if they hit, while the HAG roles on the cluster table. The HAG will generate less heat when both units fire, but without any other weapons on either variant it doesn’t matter much.

I’m not fond of either variant, but if I had to pick it would be the B, at least it can guarantee it will deal full damage, even if the range is a little shorter. To whoever designed these variants, I wish something different had been done. Keep the A, it fits with the Horses’ development and love of the HAGs, but then do something different for the B that’s not as obvious of a comparison. Perhaps a Streak LRM 15 with some backup weapons and less ammo, or standard LRMs.

The C variant would have also been a good replacement for the B, it features an ATM12 rack with 3 tons of ammo and a pair of ER Medium Lasers. While the Boreas isn’t fast, the ATM rack allows it to plink at long range and hit for more as it closes. If it can close to HE ammo range, there’s a potential 50 points of damage waiting for someone. Not a bad combo for only 12 tons.

Moving on, last is the D variant, the first to need extra LHS. A pair of Heavy Large Lasers are the only weapons, with the rest of the tonnage going to heat sinks. While the extra LHS can’t handle the full weapons load, it’s enough to handle a fairly standard pattern fire, something most regular users of heavy lasers are familiar with. It’s not a bad variant, but usually with dual HLL ‘Mechs I wish for something more to add to it and this one is no different. Something like more speed, a longer range weapon, or more defensive equipment, it just doesn’t feel finished to me.

Overall, I think the Boreas is a good first try at a QuadVee Omni. As some rules questions of mine get answered and clarified we will all have a better understanding of how these new unique units work and we can better analyze and rate them. However, I can do a quick comparison between the 60-ton Omni Boreas and the 55-ton non-Omni Cyllaros. The Cyllaros is faster at 5/8, but it requires an XL engine. The Boreas is able to devote 1.5 tons more to weapons and equipment and it carries 40 points more armor, something that I think will be more and more valuable to prevent motive crits. The Cyllaros wants to close range with an enemy while most variants of the Boreas are happy to fight at long range. I can see the two of these QuadVees deployed together in a unit, each occupying different roles.



‘Mech(ish) of the Week: Notos


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Continuing the theme of the previous M(ish)otW, next we will be covering the last of the current canon QuadVees, the Notos. Appearing in XTRO: Republic III, the Notos is the first of what I would call Gen 2 of QuadVee design. Likely based on experiences with the previous 4 designs, the Notos seems to work in the best aspects of each into an impressive QuadVee design.

On the artwork front, the overall lines look more smooth, more defined than previous QuadVees, something that is also reflected in the fluff description. Despite the fluff saying the split cockpit design was poor for pilot coordination, the Notos keeps the split design found on the Boreas. It’s a style I like and think helps make QuadVees look more unique.

The similarities to the Boreas don’t end with just the cockpit layout, both designs are 60-ton Omnis. The pod tonnage is similar, 12 tons for the Boreas, 13 for the Notos, allowing it to do almost anything the Boreas can, just with a little extra. The base 10 Laser Heat Sinks are enough for most variants. Armor is increased over the Boreas up to 200 points, 92% of maximum.

Using an Endo Steel structure and an XL engine, the Notos bumps the speed up to 5/8 in ‘Mech mode. Why did I specify “’Mech mode”? Well that’s because it is the first QuadVee to feature wheeled vehicle mode instead of tracked. For 50% extra tonnage, a wheeled QuadVee increases the cruise MP by 1 and recalculates the flank speed. So the 5/8 Notos ‘Mech speed translates to 6/9 wheeled speed. It may not seem like a big deal, but at some speeds it may be cheaper than increasing the engine size (I don’t know yet, I have to run the numbers). Also, I’ve learned that in vehicle mode, a QuadVee gets the +1 MP for moving on pavement, meaning in urban settings a Notos can get up to 10MP in vehicle mode.

The Prime variant appears to be based on the Epona Prime hovertank. A handful of 5 Medium Pulse Lasers tied to a targeting computer make up the weapons package. The last ton is used on a supercharger, bumping the ‘Mech speed up to 5/8(10) and the vehicle speed to 6/9(12) with the option for 1MP more on pavement. With an alpha strike, movement heat is the only concern. For enemies that had grown used to the slow plodding QuadVees, a Notos Prime in vehicle mode must have been a shock. 

Now the A variant is essentially a copy of the Boreas A, keeping the HAG 20 and two tons of ammo. The only difference is the addition of two ER Small Lasers using the Notos’ extra ton. I really like this addition, giving it an extra pair of 5 point hits and something that isn’t dependent on ammo.

The B variant does what I wish the Boreas B had done to differentiate it from the A. Using standard missile racks the Notos B carries a pair of LRM15 racks each with two tons of ammo and a pair of ER Medium Lasers. Like the Prime an alpha strike only adds movement heat. This is a solid missile QuadVee and puts the Cyllaros to shame with double the missile load.

The C variant features a full electronics suite of ECM, Active Probe, and Light TAG. Along with it are a pair of Improved Heavy Medium Lasers, a pair of AP Gauss Rifles, and a trio of SRM6 racks. This is the only hot-running Notos variant, with a top speed alpha strike going +10 on the heat scale. Urban terrain will be the C’s friend, minimizing the 9 hex weapons limit and allowing it to hide and cool if needed.

Last is the D variant, the sniper of the group. A pair of ER Large Lasers tied to a targeting computer and extra LHS make a simple but deadly package. Combine that with the Notos’ speed and 360° turret, it can run around firing at long range all day with no heat gain.

Where the Boreas set out a good baseline for a first Omni QuadVee, the Notos steps it up a notch, taking almost everything and making it all a little better. It still makes sacrifices that similar 60-ton Quad ‘Mechs don’t, but this looks like a well designed QuadVee to me.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #1 on: 10 November 2016, 19:20:59 »
Great article! The Noros intrigues me. Fan financing it anyone?

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #2 on: 10 November 2016, 20:01:29 »
The Notos is awesome

Nice article
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #3 on: 10 November 2016, 20:04:21 »
Great article! The Noros intrigues me. Fan financing it anyone?
Well the Notos does look great and we might get a new fan financing poll going soon, it will face a lot of competition  ;) . However it will make a fine addition to any CHH force. 
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #4 on: 10 November 2016, 21:37:55 »
This article really highlights one of the huge advantages that QuadVees have over comparable vehicles: they track heat.  Suddenly instead of taking potentially lethal damage and critical hits, they just gain a couple heat from an Inferno salvo.  Annoying, sure, but it's almost impossible to outright kill or even mission kill a QuadVee, and they'll still be shooting back.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #5 on: 11 November 2016, 03:57:39 »
I love this article :) And like yourself the split cockpit look makes a lot more sense than a double rowed cockpit. It would be disorentating as all hell for the pilot to have to be looking another direction to the direction of travel as the turret slews around.   Design wise they are clearly a prototype and then an evolution, the Notos is a fearsome machine, and I bet it would be a horror to face in a city environment because it just transfo..converts into wheeled mode, hides behind level 1 buildings and zooms around.

The Boreas is a good prototype and i'm glad it remained in production.  I wonder if they'll replace the three standard designs or keep them in production as well.
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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #6 on: 11 November 2016, 07:57:06 »
I love this article :) And like yourself the split cockpit look makes a lot more sense than a double rowed cockpit. It would be disorentating as all hell for the pilot to have to be looking another direction to the direction of travel as the turret slews around.   Design wise they are clearly a prototype and then an evolution, the Notos is a fearsome machine, and I bet it would be a horror to face in a city environment because it just transfo..converts into wheeled mode, hides behind level 1 buildings and zooms around.

The Boreas is a good prototype and i'm glad it remained in production.  I wonder if they'll replace the three standard designs or keep them in production as well.
I'm thinking down the line to do a usage article for all of them and talk about keeping vs replacing designs, but I can give a few initial impressions. I think the first one to get discontinued would be the Cyllaros, not b/c it was the first, but b/c it's profile and usage can be so easily replaced and improved upon by the Notos. Until there's another heavy QuadVee, I don't see any reason to replace the Harpagos. It may not be optimized, but it's essentially a Carnivore that can change into a Quad 'Mech, and the Carnivore by itself is a great thing.

I have to think about it more, but I'm not so sure the lack of armor is as big of a deal on the Arion as I initially thought. If there was the tonnage to keep all the weapons and increase the armor or speed that would be great and I would love that. For a QuadVee, taking crits or losing a leg is brutal. Losing a leg cuts vehicle mode MPs in half, and without a lot of armor, losing a leg on a Light is quite easy. As it is, just plan for it to be a throw away unit that's likely to come back in pieces or not at all. With that in mind, then it's a better unit than I initially thought.


EDIT: hit reply before I was done.

For the Boreas and Notos, I think the two can easily work together, despite the same tonnages. Looking at the weapons packages, only the A variant of each is duplicated. The Boreas B is all LRMs, but as streaks you know no shot is wasted. The Notos B can deliver a much larger swarm of missiles, making them different enough for my tastes. My only request if I had to make changes would be to swap the D variants, to better match the Large Lasers to the speed of the QuadVee, ERs for the slow Boreas, Heavies for the faster Notos.
« Last Edit: 11 November 2016, 08:02:05 by wantec »
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #7 on: 11 November 2016, 08:12:43 »
I'd say they are all useful even if there is a bit of toe stepping on towards the top end.  I agree that the Cyllaros can be quite happily replaced by the Notos or Boreas which benifits from being modular even if some of its variants are not exactly the best (probably due to its prototype/testbed status).  Against these two the Cyllaros looks rather weak although it would probably be shuffled back to support Elementals as its quite potent against infantry and battle armour which the Notos and Boreas are not so great at.  It would also probably do well as a training vehicle as something tells me that getting use to Quadvee's will take some doing.

The Harpagos as you said is a walking Carnivore, and that's never a bad thing, sure its a bit ammo light and it could do with looking better instead of being a sky scraper slapped on a tracked chassis but again, early production stuff, the Horses then went all smooth and curvy with the Notos and Boreas, but otherwise, a pair of gauss rifles is nothing to snort at. 

In terms of speed the Notos is equal to the achingly fragile Arion but they are different beasties, as you said the Arion is a harasser, able to zip around and keep shooting at you with its ER large laser and sting you with SRM's if you get close.  And whilst its fragile the firepower is rather impressive, its like a Kit Fox.  It can punch above its weight and not survive the hate it recieves in kind.  Perhaps a Mk2 of it could be fitted with an XL engine and you up the speed to 7/11 if you can and keep it as a harasser.  We'll have to see what the Horses do, I have no idea if we'll see an assault Mech version (and I don't think there's a Mech making program that can make Quadvee's yet) but I honestly think that the Quadvee is not some niche unit that's built to troll with Zell but a perfectly viable, if quirky unit :)

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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #8 on: 11 November 2016, 09:42:49 »
...(and I don't think there's a Mech making program that can make Quadvee's yet)...
Anything that can design a Quad 'Mech can design a QuadVee, you just have to ignore all the normally open leg and head crit slots and leave 1 ton (for the extra cockpit) off plus 20% or 25% of the tonnage free depending on if you want tracked or wheeled.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #9 on: 11 November 2016, 10:48:17 »
10/15%, not 20/25%, IIRC.


The Boreas is a bit eh.
But the Notos? Now that's more like, finally something that seems to really work.
Hopefully future QuadVees follow the Notos in being reasonably effective and interesting units.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #10 on: 11 November 2016, 10:51:53 »
I'm looking forward to further diversification of motive systems.  Hover QuadVees, anyone?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #11 on: 11 November 2016, 11:03:46 »
How about WiGE, or any naval movement?  :D

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #12 on: 11 November 2016, 11:19:30 »
10/15%, not 20/25%, IIRC.


The Boreas is a bit eh.
But the Notos? Now that's more like, finally something that seems to really work.
Hopefully future QuadVees follow the Notos in being reasonably effective and interesting units.

Tracks and wheels are also 10% tonnage, so it adds up to 20/25%.
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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #13 on: 11 November 2016, 11:24:45 »
10/15%, not 20/25%, IIRC.


The Boreas is a bit eh.
But the Notos? Now that's more like, finally something that seems to really work.
Hopefully future QuadVees follow the Notos in being reasonably effective and interesting units.
10%/15% for tracked/wheeled, plus another 10% for the conversion equipment.

How about WiGE, or any naval movement?  :D
Well in Quad mode it can use jump jets. Add a partial wing and you've got something that looks kinda like WiGE. Or go UMUs for (underwater) naval movement.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #14 on: 11 November 2016, 12:15:58 »
Forgot the conversion equipment...

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #15 on: 11 November 2016, 13:44:34 »
How about WiGE, or any naval movement?  :D
I was going to say VTOL/WiGE, but that's more LAM territory.  AirMech mode already approximates WiGE movement, doesn't it?

A QuadVee that converts into a submarine would be pretty cool, though.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #16 on: 11 November 2016, 14:00:42 »
What would sub mode give you that UMUs don't? Aside from some speed boosts, all I can think of is the ability to lose a level of height, and improved crush depth ratings.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #17 on: 11 November 2016, 14:03:06 »

I would like to see an QuadVee-Hover  >:D
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #18 on: 11 November 2016, 14:53:07 »
What would sub mode give you that UMUs don't? Aside from some speed boosts, all I can think of is the ability to lose a level of height, and improved crush depth ratings.
Well, there you go, you listed some pretty good points.

Also, pretty good article.
The wheeled chassis sure makes the vehicle work better due to having no drawbacks given the optional mech mode.
... Why can't it use jets in vehicle mode?
I mean, actual vehicles have no such problem.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #19 on: 11 November 2016, 14:56:51 »
great article, i have yet to use these too but i see the potential.  Notos can act as a quick reaction unit while the Boreas can be the tanker depending on which Configuration it is setup for.  I think only thing bad about the Notos is that it looses ability to go all-terrain like the other QuadVees can. Wheeled can't go into woods unfortunately.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #20 on: 11 November 2016, 15:17:58 »
What would sub mode give you that UMUs don't? Aside from some speed boosts, all I can think of is the ability to lose a level of height, and improved crush depth ratings.
Hmm.  Good point.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #21 on: 11 November 2016, 15:40:48 »
What would sub mode give you that UMUs don't? Aside from some speed boosts, all I can think of is the ability to lose a level of height, and improved crush depth ratings.

The speed boost seems totally worth it just by itself honestly.  I don't think there's a point at which it's cheaper in terms of tonnage instead of using UMUs, but it'd 100% unequivocally be less in the crit space requirement department.

Having a sub that could mount HarJel would also be pretty cool.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #22 on: 11 November 2016, 15:52:11 »
One question about these two Quadvees. Why the Laser heatskins?  IIRC from their fluff a laser heatsink takes up less physical space in a mech's interior so that could be a good lore reason for them being fitted.  Or are the Horses going for the laser rave tank/mech's as a psychological factor?
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #23 on: 11 November 2016, 16:06:29 »
great article, i have yet to use these too but i see the potential.  Notos can act as a quick reaction unit while the Boreas can be the tanker depending on which Configuration it is setup for.  I think only thing bad about the Notos is that it looses ability to go all-terrain like the other QuadVees can. Wheeled can't go into woods unfortunately.
Or it could just walk into the woods and go prone.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #24 on: 11 November 2016, 16:07:38 »
One question about these two Quadvees. Why the Laser heatskins?  IIRC from their fluff a laser heatsink takes up less physical space in a mech's interior so that could be a good lore reason for them being fitted.  Or are the Horses going for the laser rave tank/mech's as a psychological factor?

A meta-reason might be that laser sinks are technically a bit better than normal double sinks in gameplay. The bonus laser sinks has is that you need to run hotter to risk ammo explosion, while the penalty applies only if time of day rules are in play.
Heck, that might be enough to make them better in-universe overall, but they're rarer and more expensive due to them being relatively new to common production.

Not to mention, advanced unit type, lets equip it out with advanced tech.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #25 on: 11 November 2016, 16:14:10 »
Quad mech/tanks that carry a portable rave with them.  Rule of cool, man.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #26 on: 11 November 2016, 17:44:56 »
Having a sub that could mount HarJel would also be pretty cool.

You've convinced me right there. That alone makes it worth it.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #27 on: 11 November 2016, 20:10:21 »
Not rain on anyone parade, but last time i checked Interstellar Operations said only Tracked and Wheeled modes of transportation can be used on QuadVees.  I'd love have more, like hover.  Superheavy Combat Vehicles can have hovercraft that big.  However, nothing else was said what else they could have.  Originally Field Manual 3145 (p.249) said QVs only could have Tracks.  Only with XTRO: Republic III and IO expanded it to Wheels.
UMU may not be worth it, thou it be nice to have that in there.


I think thou, as tech advances, a another Era Report/Field Manual for the future era comes out or TRO, additional rules/capacities can be added per era.  Maybe UMU, Hover, can be added.
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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #28 on: 12 November 2016, 03:21:40 »
From memory Hovers don't need much engine to get some crazy speeds. Mechs require big engines. The toughness of a Mech with hover mobility could lead back into the craziness of pre TW hover tanks. It got nerfed for a reason.

Even without the toughness I see how you could use your hover system to crack 8/12 to burn into range. Crit your motive system out then fight as a 5/8 Mech.

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Re: ‘Mech(ish) of the Week Two-part Omni Special: Boreas and Notos
« Reply #29 on: 12 November 2016, 03:50:30 »
Quick question about transforming between modes. When you transform does it cost anything or does it kill all movement that turn to transform into a Mech or back into a vehicle and roll out?
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