VotW: Zibler Fast Strike Tank

[JPArbiter]

Zibler... Ziiiiibler... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzibler...


ohhh what about Mech Mortars or Thumper Cannons?

[Scotty]

Two MechMortar 4s and four tons of ammo is just enough to do awful, awful things with.

[FedSunsBorn]

Two MechMortar 4s and four tons of ammo is just enough to do awful, awful things with.

Sounds evil...I like it.  8)

Also, about the Zibler...

I think this has got to be my new all time favorite vehicle for the 3145 era. The only complaints from me would be more ammo for the LAC's as already mentioned and that it is a hovertank with all of the problems of said tank. Every config is usable in one form or another and it still has decent armor and speed to boot. For me, this is the new gold standard for medium weight IS omnitanks in the current era.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Was there an old gold standard for medium weight IS omnitanks? ???

[JadeHellbringer]

Was there an old gold standard for medium weight IS omnitanks? ???

An Epona with the keys left in it while the driver was buying coffee.  ::)

[Redshirt]

An Epona with the keys left in it while the driver was buying coffee.  ::)

Not true! I left the coffee on the roof! :D

You can probably create a variant that is a dedicated Battle Armor Carrier capable of transporting a platoon of Battle Armor. A 12 ton Bay to carry three squads, with the fourth squad riding on the hull. You'd still have six tons (It is 4 tons to carry a squad of regular Battle Armor, right?) to use on whatever tickles your fancy.

[JPArbiter]

Was there an old gold standard for medium weight IS omnitanks? ???

arguably the Condor or Drillson.  those got replaced by the Fulcrum, and then that got replaced by the Condor again with the 3075 upgrade...

[Terrace]

arguably the Condor or Drillson.  those got replaced by the Fulcrum, and then that got replaced by the Condor again with the 3075 upgrade...

Uh, those are standard Combat Vehicles, and we're talking about the gold standard for medium Omnivehicles. Bit of a difference there. :P

[FedSunsBorn]

yeah, there hasn't really been a large slew of omnivehicles to choose from for the Zibler to compare too but when I wrote that bit I was thinking along the lines of the Grenadier BA or the MadCat Heavy omni-mech when they first appeared. Setting a standard that everything before and after needed to look up to in order to be considered effective. Something groundbreaking and that should last for a good while as an effective combat unit.

[Auren]

Every time I look at this tank's name, I think of this guy.

[JPArbiter]

Uh, those are standard Combat Vehicles, and we're talking about the gold standard for medium Omnivehicles. Bit of a difference there. :P

I misunderstood

only competitor in that regard is the Clan Designed Beagle Hovertank

[Rage]

I misunderstood

only competitor in that regard is the Clan Designed Beagle Hovertank

I think you mean Bandit. The Beagle is a 15-ton Star League design.

[Colt Ward]

Forget hauling that much BA . . . slap a Plasma Rifle on it with some ammo . . . 3 squads of BA to drop off and a gun to support them or clear the way of any crunchies in the drop zone.

[JPArbiter]

I think you mean Bandit. The Beagle is a 15-ton Star League design.

you are right, oops

[Wrangler]

Forget hauling that much BA . . . slap a Plasma Rifle on it with some ammo . . . 3 squads of BA to drop off and a gun to support them or clear the way of any crunchies in the drop zone.

I'm sure as soon as the Capellans capture Zibler's factory world they'll rename the tank and happy mound a Plasma Rifle on the thing. To show the surviving Davions how its done before killing them with it.

[SCC]

Right, when something like this is hauling around 4 squads of BA is that a platoon or a lance? And is a platoon (Of either conventional or BA infantry) equal to a lance?

[Weirdo]

Right, when something like this is hauling around 4 squads of BA is that a platoon or a lance? And is a platoon (Of either conventional or BA infantry) equal to a lance?

I'll answer the second part first. A platoon is always equivalent to a lance. Note that this applies to battlesuited and conventional infantry.

For the first part...4 squads of BA can be more than a platoon, equal to a platoon, or less than a platoon, depending on a nation's organizational scheme.

The Draconis Combine and most mercenaries use 3-squad platoons.

The Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth, and Capellan Confederation use 4-squad platoons.

The Free Worlds League uses 5-squad platoons.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe we've been told somewhere that the Republic of the Sphere uses 3-squad platoons.

Not clue about most periphery nations, aside from the Marian Hegemony, which uses 5 Contubernia of BA per Maniple.

You think that's confusing? The number of platoons in a battlesuit (or conventional infantry) company is just as variable, and the same as you go up the chart. I have nothing but respect for someone who fields a fully accurate Lyran infantry battalion and is willing to keep track of all the independent command squads.

[JPArbiter]

So next is the Hasek, right?

[VhenRa]

I'll answer the second part first. A platoon is always equivalent to a lance. Note that this applies to battlesuited and conventional infantry.

For the first part...4 squads of BA can be more than a platoon, equal to a platoon, or less than a platoon, depending on a nation's organizational scheme.

The Draconis Combine and most mercenaries use 3-squad platoons.

The Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth, and Capellan Confederation use 4-squad platoons.

The Free Worlds League uses 5-squad platoons.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe we've been told somewhere that the Republic of the Sphere uses 3-squad platoons.

Not clue about most periphery nations, aside from the Marian Hegemony, which uses 5 Contubernia of BA per Maniple.

You think that's confusing? The number of platoons in a battlesuit (or conventional infantry) company is just as variable, and the same as you go up the chart. I have nothing but respect for someone who fields a fully accurate Lyran infantry battalion and is willing to keep track of all the independent command squads.

Some lines from FM: Periphery indicate the Taurians use 16 Suit Platoons. So 4 squad platoons.

[Orin J.]

an interesting design, the Zibler. it looks more like a racing design than a tank with the way the body forms an wing to get pushed by the main engine in the rear. the bubble cockpit and streamlined front bumpers further lend themselves to the image of a fact vehicle (which it is, for a 50-ton hovertank- it can go faster sure, but you need to spend a lotta money to do it).....right up until you get to the turret.

all the gun mounts point in different directions. it looks like a laser bouquet more than a proper turret. and while i'm sure wedding planners appreciate the idea, i'm not too keen on them firing accurately. maybe the whole turret is built to rotate the weapons outlay in turn or something....seems like a weird idea, but it's far from the worst design i've seen.

[Nebfer]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe we've been told somewhere that the Republic of the Sphere uses 3-squad platoons.

Well TRO 3085 mentions that a Maxim II, a Trajan and two Giggins can lift a full company, which is at most 40 troopers ( the maxim carry's 16, the other three carry 8 each), the Maxims entry mentions that it's standard practices to carry a full platoon.
This would indicate that a platoon is 12 each, and a company is 36 troopers, this would be the same org as the Kuritans.

However the 3085 Supplemental says that the Zugvogel got a configuration to carry a full RAF BA company, This would be the E config, it has a 48 ton bay (effectively 48 troopers), and that the Trireme which is equipped to carry 36 troopers it self carry's only two platoons, this indicates that a RAF platoon is 16 troopers, also the CS config of the Trireme is stated to carry a full platoon which per the RS entry would be 16 troopers, as for an RAF battalion four regular Triremes can carry a full battalion which would be 144 troopers (4x36 = 144, also 3x48 which matchs the company strengths).

The reference (Trajan entry) of a Maxim II, Trajan and 2x Giggins lifting a company would likely have to be a typo for 2x maxims and one each of the other types.

As such per the 3085 Supplemental a RAF Battle Armor Battalion would be
Squad 4x troopers
Platoon 4x Squads (16)
Company 3x Platoons (48)
Battalion 3x Companys (144)

Going off the typical Regiment = 3 battalions an RAF BA Regiment would have 432 troopers, if it uses 4 battalions that would be 576 troopers. 

[Weirdo]

Here's hoping we get a definitive answer sometime soon...and preferably one with a 4 in it. It'd suck for as prolific a BA user as the RotS to be saddled with tiny BA formations.

[JadeHellbringer]

So next is the Hasek, right?

Nope! But if you want it added to the queue I can do so!

(Running a test on this week's vehicle right now actually... We're going a bit old-school. And humble. And... god this thing just sucks... is it Sunday so I can get this off my plate yet?  ;D

[Rage]

Nope! But if you want it added to the queue I can do so!

(Running a test on this week's vehicle right now actually... We're going a bit old-school. And humble. And... god this thing just sucks... is it Sunday so I can get this off my plate yet?  ;D

If it's the Vedette, I'm going to smack you. :P

[Arkansas Warrior]

Nope! But if you want it added to the queue I can do so!

Please do.

[Welshman]

I just can't get fully behind the Zibler. I'm well known for my hover tactics and can make them deadly even under modern rules. The key to that though is speed. 8/12 wasn't good enough for the S trio, more armor doesn't make it good enough for the Zibler. One good motive crit and you start losing the ability to turn and generate high to hits.


Oh, and if you need something official on RAF BA Platoons, go read the intro fiction to FM 3085. One Kopis, one Grenadier, one Angerona and one Elemental squad.

RAF BA Platoons are 4 squads. Pretty sure I can say that with some authority. ;)

[Weirdo]

RAF BA Platoons are 4 squads. Pretty sure I can say that with some authority. ;)

Even if we end up with three-platoon companies, this makes me happy. O0

[Rage]

Even if we end up with three-platoon companies, this makes me happy. O0

3-Platoon Companies would work best, truth be told. That way you can ensure that every paired Company can be mechanized provided that they're OmniMechs or have Mag Clamps.

[jymset]

I just can't get fully behind the Zibler. I'm well known for my hover tactics and can make them deadly even under modern rules. The key to that though is speed. 8/12 wasn't good enough for the S trio, more armor doesn't make it good enough for the Zibler. One good motive crit and you start losing the ability to turn and generate high to hits.

Full disclosure: Welshman fought long and hard to give the Zibler a better engine.

The Zibler is one big compromise. We even tried it as a superheavy, but it just didn't work. Ideally, the vehicle should've had 4 (light) autocannons and 12 missile tubes. No way to do it sensibly. So that was the birth of the omni idea, which allowed us to play with the abilities the vehicle had in the game. The A configuration set the minimum required pod space. The rest of the vehicle was simply adding numbers. The 165-rated standard engine actually 'wastes' 1 ton, on a non-hover it only weighs 9 tons. A light engine was right out (a 215-rated engine would come in at 11.5 tons and we didn't have 1.5 tons to spare) and a Fuel Cell ran into the same problems (and would only have been an option on a non-Omni AC-based vehicle). That left the option the Welshman fought so hard for - a vehicle with a 265-rated XL engine and 6.5 tons of HFF armor.

Ultimately, my choice was informed by two variables. On the one hand, the Zibler is indeed a confused vehicle. It really feels like it should be a wheeled thing, which means less speed and more toughness than a hovertank. So lower speed and slightly better armor "felt" right. And, most importantly, House Davion had installed a 165 standard engine in their hovertank that had previously featured a 265 XL - the Fulcrum.

So the Zibler is a set of compromises that ended up being mini-maxed hard - from a construction/aesthetic point of view, but not in ways of game design.

Sorry, Welshman, I appreciate you fought the good fight for the better game version #P

[VhenRa]

3-Platoon Companies would work best, truth be told. That way you can ensure that every paired Company can be mechanized provided that they're OmniMechs or have Mag Clamps.

Agree from a transport prospective.