Author Topic: Intel Officer's Mech? (Read 4509 times)

Black_Knyght · « **on:** 07 March 2018, 18:20:13 »

Our mercenary unit has a bit of a conundrum, and thought I'd tap into the group-mind here for a possible solution. 8)

So the situation in this question is this:

We have a 3075-era multi-nationality mercenary battalion, and the battalion commander's immediate XO is also the battalion's acting Intelligence chief for the unit. And he's in need of a suitable mech for his position.

So the question in this situation is this:

What mech, from ANY nation/clan in the 3075-era, would be the most beneficial as both a war machine AND an Intel officer's machine?

And thanx all, ahead of time ;)

monbvol · « **Reply #1 on:** 07 March 2018, 18:36:33 »

I'm not sure a Mech is appropriate for the Intel officer's actual intelligence duties but if he has to have one in the freak event his two duties overlap I'd suggest something with the Improved Communications and Improved Sensors design quirks. So maybe a Cyclops.

Hythos · « **Reply #2 on:** 07 March 2018, 18:59:29 »

Could you consider something like an OTT-9-something (whatever works best) and have the best friend(s) in a Demolisher II? :)

RoundTop · « **Reply #3 on:** 07 March 2018, 19:18:58 »

Raven or an Owens. Both have tons of electronics gear. Owens can get you out faster and is an omni, so you could mount more.

Syzyx · « **Reply #4 on:** 07 March 2018, 19:34:38 »

Gotta back the Ostscout on this one. Ideally the IIC, but fluffwise that was a one off machine.

Tai Dai Cultist · « **Reply #5 on:** 07 March 2018, 19:45:09 »

Does he coordinate intel ops or does he participate in the intel ops? That clarification would lead to very different mech suggestions. Basically, the Cyclopses/BattleMasters for the former and Ostscouts/Owenses for the latter.

Edit: If we're talking about a force that's only battalion sized, I'd probably be looking at your intel chief being the CO of the Battle Armor sub-force rather than being a mechwarrior.

SteelRaven · « **Reply #6 on:** 07 March 2018, 19:52:25 »

Unless you get into AToW, most mechs will only have a marginal advantages for info gather vs other combat vehicles.

A good scout Mech has more durability than a vtol and conventional aircraft (no Aerospace aircraft spring to mind) Something that remain hidden (stealth armor or void) and decent sensors and communication gear (sometimes only reflected in fluff text) I would imagine C3 would play a roll if working with a lance.

The Somerset Strikers may give us a vague idea of what type of unit a Intel Officer may work with consider their mission was supposedly to gather intel and recon during the Clan invasion. Though their Intel officer remained in a mobile combat vehicle (Packrat) and prior to a mission going bad to poor satellite relay, remained on the Jumpship via Mech Commander. I guess Adam Steiner could also be considered a model for Intel Officer who is also a Mechwarrior, his custom Awesome AWS-9Ma came equipped with a Command Console (this was older Command Console of course)

Saint · « **Reply #7 on:** 07 March 2018, 19:55:45 »

I like the Firestarter Omnimech, good speed, armor, decent firepower, and configs with BAP, ECM, or C3 Slave.

Black_Knyght · « **Reply #8 on:** 07 March 2018, 20:31:04 »

Quote from: Tai Dai Cultist on 07 March 2018, 19:45:09

Does he coordinate intel ops or does he participate in the intel ops? That clarification would lead to very different mech suggestions. Basically, the Cyclopses/BattleMasters for the former and Ostscouts/Owenses for the latter.

Edit: If we're talking about a force that's only battalion sized, I'd probably be looking at your intel chief being the CO of the Battle Armor sub-force rather than being a mechwarrior.

For the most part he just coordinates Intel Ops as acting chief on a unit-wide command level for the unit, though he's was a former LOKI operative once himself.

Additionally we used both CBT and AToW in our ongoing campaigns.

Tai Dai Cultist · « **Reply #9 on:** 07 March 2018, 20:36:32 »

Then I'd save the Ravens, Owens, Ostscouts, and similar mechs for the recon lance(s) of the force. I'd put your intel officer in a big, capable command mech as he's the overall 2nd in command of the entire force.

guardiandashi · « **Reply #10 on:** 07 March 2018, 21:03:00 »

An important question is does it have to be stock or can it be customized?
As that changes things as well.

For example a stock cyclops sounds pretty good.
On the other hand a custom c3 master Battlemaster, with satellite uplink, command console ecm, and active probe would be a command vehicle from hell for an opponent to face.

Black_Knyght · « **Reply #11 on:** 07 March 2018, 22:17:15 »

I don't imagine customized would be an issue, provided it's not an optimizer's wet dream or a heavily clan-ified mech (though an actual Clan mech does work, following the former and ignoring the latter).

Tai Dai Cultist · « **Reply #12 on:** 07 March 2018, 22:41:43 »

I don't know how heavyweight the mercs are. Ideally you'd want a big assault like a Cyclops BattleMaster or even an Atlas as a command mech, but if the force is generally light and fast that's actually a hindrance if the Bog Bosses can't keep up.

A good cavalry mech might be suitable as well in a case like this. If ComStar or WoB materiel is plausible, an Exterminator might be a great idea.

JPArbiter · « **Reply #13 on:** 07 March 2018, 22:54:44 »

since the SLDF Royals were coming back into vogue, I would recommend a BLR-1Gbc Battlemaster. Battlemasters are already command vehicles, and the tactical command console permits the intel officer to focus on battlefield intelligence coordination in real time while on the field while a subordinate pilots the mech, while still giving said XO to operate the mech either partially or fully if needed.

if you feel your intell officer needs to be a front line reconnisance officer, then a Mongoose II, Phoenix Hawk, or Wolverine, again because of scout and command capabilities.

Stormforge · « **Reply #14 on:** 07 March 2018, 22:58:48 »

Sunder, Avatar, and Black Hawk KU could make good mechs allowing your Intel Officer to mount his choice of electronics gear and weapons. Depends on your unit mobility. Could go the Clan route too, and use a Hellbringer, Timber Wolf, Executioner, etc.

Black_Knyght · « **Reply #15 on:** 08 March 2018, 00:37:43 »

In terms of size the battalion is actually now something of a reinforced battalion of sorts, composed of four companies and overall averaging out as mid- to upper-heavy in weight class. Currently lots of missing specialized sections/departments, hence some officers are acting heads of this section or that one.

SteelRaven · « **Reply #16 on:** 08 March 2018, 02:01:26 »

Considering we are talking about both assaults and omnis, the Hauptmann may be in the cards if your unit is friendly with the Lyrans.

At the same time, other mechs would be easier to come by. Might be able to make a stronger argument for a Clan mech if you unit has history with Operation Bulldog or Serpent.

Black_Knyght · « **Reply #17 on:** 08 March 2018, 02:25:04 »

Definitely participated in Operation Bulldog against the Smoked Jaguars ( >:D ), as well as worked for both the Draconis Combine along the Ghost Bear border and the Lyran Alliance along the Jade Falcon border.

Tai Dai Cultist · « **Reply #18 on:** 08 March 2018, 02:30:39 »

If you're going to play with C3, a Tai-sho may be an idea. Put the 2C3M unit in a nice and high place where the CO's bodyguards can also help protect it. And if you're using Battlefield Intelligence rules from Alpha Strike campaign system (or something like them) then the Intel officer is a natural to capitalize upon the HQ power that comes with 2 C3Ms.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #19 on:** 08 March 2018, 02:32:40 »

Quote from: RoundTop on 07 March 2018, 19:18:58

Raven or an Owens. Both have tons of electronics gear. Owens can get you out faster and is an omni, so you could mount more.

wow, you must hate the guy if you want to stick him in an Owens. #P

Kojak · « **Reply #20 on:** 08 March 2018, 02:59:46 »

If speed isn't a factor, the Atlas from XTRO Periphery is pretty swank for this kind of role.

Black_Knyght · « **Reply #21 on:** 08 March 2018, 04:07:39 »

Sadly, I'd have to say C3 of any kind is out too, because for this unit that would require refitting several mechs and not just assigning one new mech.

Nightlord01 · « **Reply #22 on:** 08 March 2018, 04:49:26 »

Quote from: Black_Knyght on 07 March 2018, 20:31:04

For the most part he coordinates Intel Ops on a unit-wide command level for the unit, though he's also a former LOKI operative. Additionally we used both CBT and AToW in our ongoing campaigns.

Then he is not your INTELO (S2), he's your OPSO (S3). An INTELO receives, analyses, parses and reports intel to the commanding officer, they don't run ops! Good thing too, because they tend to suck at planning.

Now, repeat after me: The INTELO does not belong on the front line! Speaking of which, neither does your CO! Your CO and your S2 should be in a nice, safe location, where your S2 can look at reported hostile activity and assess it for the CO, allowing the CO to make faster, better decisions than the opposing CO. Having either in a mech, sexy as it is, is unnecessarily choking their information flow and slowing their decision cycle.

I know the BTU tends to play very fast and loose with combat doctrine, but there isn't a single military force on the planet that allows a BN CO to head to the front line, their role is to win the on the operational level. The company and lance OCs are really the only command officers who should be on the front line, with their associated G2s.

Getz · « **Reply #23 on:** 08 March 2018, 05:00:44 »

How about a Maelstrom 6E or 6K? That gives you a fast, heavily armoured platform with all the electronic doodads.

Col Toda · « **Reply #24 on:** 08 March 2018, 06:49:42 »

I have a unit variant / model of the Naganata . I removed the 3 tons of Artimes IV FC and use the tonnage for a Command Console . So not only does it provide the XO with a +2 initiative and between the console and C3 Master can monitor 8 remote sensors by itself . It gets more comprehensive if one slave is in something with an active probe . By 3075 ECM is so common that Artemis IV is not worth the tonnage and should be replaced by something else .

Archangel · « **Reply #25 on:** 08 March 2018, 06:52:31 »

It needs to be noted that as Nightlord1 stated an intel officer's job isn't necessarily to gather the intel himself (if the unit is small there may be no choice) but to interpret/analyze it and provide only the requested/important information to his superior. Not to mention that the officer's duties as XO will frequently take priority especially on the battlefield and IMO should be more important in his ride than his secondary position. These duties include leading a portion of the unit, if not the entire unit, in the CO's absence/incapacitation/death into battle. Therefore, IMO, depending upon your unit's composition the XO's ride should either be a heavier medium 'Mech or a faster heavy 'Mech to give him both firepower and maneuverability and an acceptable amount of armor.

The Eagle · « **Reply #26 on:** 08 March 2018, 07:16:54 »

To add on to what Nightlord said, the Intel officer should not be a MechWarrior. They should be Intel branch, trained and schooled in analysis. I was an Intel analyst in the US Army and every time we had a combat arms officer assigned as our S2, they repeatedly drew the wrong conclusions to the data at hand. In one case, an Aviation branch captain questioned the intelligence assessment of myself (an NCO at the time), my supervising NCO, and my soldier, all of us trained analysts who reached our assessment individually to avoid groupthink.

When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. As an analyst, you have to be a Gerber multitool instead. It's hard to maintain that kind of objectivity when your training is "crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."

phoenixalpha · « **Reply #27 on:** 08 March 2018, 08:08:27 »

An intel officers Battlemech should be a Dropship. In orbit. Far far away from any possible firefights with excellent communications links to all battlefield assets and every bit of data available at a moments notice. They should not be in combat if at all possible. Much like the CO (unless its a very small unit) - they are too valuable to be in combat in any shape or form.

Robroy · « **Reply #28 on:** 08 March 2018, 09:11:38 »

Well if he has to be in a mech I would go with a Crab, either the Royal or Star League variant ( CRB-27b or CRB-27sl ). It is fluffed as having a excellent coms gear, which is what he is going to need for coordinating everything.

Weirdo · « **Reply #29 on:** 08 March 2018, 09:25:16 »

A proper Intel officer belongs way the hell away from ALL combat units, found either in a command van or bunker, but you did specify mechs, so...

You want something with C3 gear, Beagle Probes, a Command Console, and/or extra Communications Equipment. The more of any of that stuff you have, the more Remote Sensors your spook can monitor, the better a view of the battlefield s/he has. If you have enough Comm Equipment, they can hack into orbiting satellites, with all sorts of combat benefits. This kind of stuff would be right up an Intel officer's alley.

Kit deSummersville · « **Reply #30 on:** 08 March 2018, 10:30:52 »

There's a heavy 'mech that is renowned as a command unit and has a beagle probe. You may have heard of the...

...Black Knight.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #31 on:** 08 March 2018, 10:45:12 »

If I understand the OP, he is playing a merc unit . . . where most people need to wear a second hat because you either cannot always find someone with the requisite skills or afford to pay them. You also do not have all the fancy set up that House regulars or even planetary militia could have on hand. BUT . . .

They should still have some sort of HQ unit when we are talking company or larger- a reinforced company should definitely have a support platoon if not two as HQ support. It would be the folks tracking ammo & food, in charge of the techs & their parts, general supply & POL, intel, operations and probably a liason though that person is likely a line officer with some diplomatic skills. IMO, the best solution for a Intel officer in a merc unit would be a guy who is also trained as a tanker and whose tank is part of the HQ security element- but that is a secondary skill. The Eagle is absolutely right about training, I used to rub shoulders with the MI types for lots of jokes- usually 'Oh look, the battle against Orangeland for this exercise is on a peninsula going N to S . . . and we are fighting NORTH Orangeland!' Additionally, DURING a battle a intel officer should be looking over the incoming data- for one thing they should be pointing out if the reported units does not match up with the TO&E your are expecting.

Additionally, the XO is traditionally the officer on the staff that oversees training- his job is to hand the CO a finely tuned weapon as the understudy and able to step up into the CO's shoes if something happens.

Black_Knyght · « **Reply #32 on:** 08 March 2018, 15:38:11 »

Quote from: Nightlord01 on 08 March 2018, 04:49:26

Then he is not your INTELO (S2), he's your OPSO (S3). An INTELO receives, analyses, parses and reports intel to the commanding officer, they don't run ops! Good thing too, because they tend to suck at planning.

Now, repeat after me: The INTELO does not belong on the front line! Speaking of which, neither does your CO! Your CO and your S2 should be in a nice, safe location, where your S2 can look at reported hostile activity and assess it for the CO, allowing the CO to make faster, better decisions than the opposing CO. Having either in a mech, sexy as it is, is unnecessarily choking their information flow and slowing their decision cycle.

I know the BTU tends to play very fast and loose with combat doctrine, but there isn't a single military force on the planet that allows a BN CO to head to the front line, their role is to win the on the operational level. The company and lance OCs are really the only command officers who should be on the front line, with their associated G2s.

As I said, he coordinates Intel Ops, he isn't running them personally.

And as for the mercenary unit CO or OPSO/INTELO not being involved and sitting quietly behind the lines sipping tea, the CBT universe has NEVER been accused of using any kind of real world model or common sense in how it's run. Just look at models like the Grey Death Legion or Wolf's Dragoons or even the Waco Rangers for evidence on that ;)

Tai Dai Cultist · « **Reply #33 on:** 08 March 2018, 16:10:12 »

I'm with ya, Black Knyght. Mercs will rarely if ever go two contracts in a row with the same roster. Especially one the size of a batallion.

Even without discussing the applicability (or lack thereof) of real world military administration: the turnover inherent in the merc trade doesn't allow for the same rigidity of structure/duties made possible in the much more bureaucratic House Armies.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #34 on:** 08 March 2018, 16:12:24 »

Mercenaries are a different animal- again its about wearing the hats. Even there you have the exceptions like Heavy Hellraisers.

But we do have cases of House units where that is not the case, they have their command vehicles along for reasons.

Robroy · « **Reply #35 on:** 08 March 2018, 16:26:21 »

Quote from: Black_Knyght on 08 March 2018, 15:38:11

As I said, he coordinates Intel Ops, he isn't running them personally.

And as for the mercenary unit CO or OPSO/INTELO not being involved and sitting quietly behind the lines sipping tea, the CBT universe has NEVER been accused of using any kind of real world model or common sense in how it's run. Just look at models like the Grey Death Legion or Wolf's Dragoons or even the Waco Rangers for evidence on that ;)

This. The books during the clan invasion made a point of putting officers in mechs because HQs were getting hit by headhunter units.

AlphaMirage · « **Reply #36 on:** 08 March 2018, 16:45:00 »

I'd go with Beowulf (or pHawk, so they can move around, and if necessary oversee their scouts) or Black Knight (if for whatever reason he has to be close) but I agree that a tank crewman or some on monitoring satlinks and comm feeds from a dropships would be optimal

Weirdo · « **Reply #37 on:** 08 March 2018, 17:08:32 »

Like I said earlier: Put him in something that can do Remote Sensor monitoring and/or satellite hacking. Make his job more than just a fluff/RP title, make it actually help your force on the tabletop.

Daryk · « **Reply #38 on:** 08 March 2018, 20:04:52 »

Quote from: Nightlord01 on 08 March 2018, 04:49:26

*snip*
I know the BTU tends to play very fast and loose with combat doctrine, but there isn't a single military force on the planet that allows a BN CO to head to the front line, their role is to win the on the operational level. The company and lance OCs are really the only command officers who should be on the front line, with their associated G2s.

I recommend reading "The Rommel Papers". During the invasion of France, Rommel (then only a General) personally did quite a bit of exactly that as a Division Commander, and was able to win at the operational level because he was leading in that manner.

Black_Knyght · « **Reply #39 on:** 08 March 2018, 20:18:52 »

VERY good recommendation, and I absolutely second that!

Fascinating reading, to say the least...

AldanFerrox · « **Reply #40 on:** 08 March 2018, 20:37:25 »

Quote from: Daryk on 08 March 2018, 20:04:52

I recommend reading "The Rommel Papers". During the invasion of France, Rommel (then only a General) personally did quite a bit of exactly that as a Division Commander, and was able to win at the operational level because he was leading in that manner.

But that also got him almost killed several times. Leading from the front is a good idea for a colonel, but a general should stay away from direct combat. Major General Maurice Rose, commander of the 3rd Armored Division of the US Army, did the same and was killed during an german ambush near Paderborn on March 30, 1945.

Daryk · « **Reply #41 on:** 08 March 2018, 21:07:40 »

The key word being "almost". The Allies tried to assassinate him twice, and failed.

The Eagle · « **Reply #42 on:** 08 March 2018, 21:08:13 »

General Sir Richard O'Connor, who commanded the thrashing the 7th Armored gave the Italian 10th Army in Egypt and Libya, was captured by the Germans for the same reason: he was conducting a recon forward of his own lines and stumbled into a German patrol.

AldanFerrox · « **Reply #43 on:** 08 March 2018, 21:24:36 »

Quote from: Daryk on 08 March 2018, 21:07:40

The key word being "almost". The Allies tried to assassinate him twice, and failed.

He was just a very lucky man. And if you push your luck too hard you will pay. On July 17, 1944 he was heavily wounded when his staff car got strafed by a Canadian Spitfire. He had disregarded his own rules that said no unit should go out into the open during day time because the Allies had total air supremacy.

Daryk · « **Reply #44 on:** 08 March 2018, 21:46:33 »

Have you read "The Rommel Papers"? It was more than just luck.

AldanFerrox · « **Reply #45 on:** 08 March 2018, 22:03:56 »

Quote from: Daryk on 08 March 2018, 21:46:33

Have you read "The Rommel Papers"? It was more than just luck.

Yes, and the book was discredited by modern historians. Maybe you should read about the Rommel myth. The Wikipedia article about it is a good start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rommel_myth

Also, Battletech itself is chock-full of examples of high-ranking people that got themselves killed because they wanted to lead from the front. Caleb Davion, Nondi Steiner, Ian Davion or Geralk Marik to name a few. And Victor Steiner-Davion was also pretty lucky that he survived his bare-chested melee with Lincoln Osis.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #46 on:** 08 March 2018, 23:17:29 »

One other example would be during the FCCW on Tharkad, Phelan is reviewing footage with Morgan and I think Peter when the discussion is about how one of the Lyran regiment commander got dropped with the unit falling apart from that time forward. Discussed the nature of personality cults in commands and how it affected Clan vs IS units.

SteelRaven · « **Reply #47 on:** 09 March 2018, 02:49:45 »

I'll agree the Black Knight is a solid choice for the era. Gallowglas if you prefer something similar not also piloted by Wobbies

Daryk · « **Reply #48 on:** 09 March 2018, 04:47:30 »

Quote from: AldanFerrox on 08 March 2018, 22:03:56

Yes, and the book was discredited by modern historians. Maybe you should read about the Rommel myth. The Wikipedia article about it is a good start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rommel_myth

Also, Battletech itself is chock-full of examples of high-ranking people that got themselves killed because the wanted to lead from the front. Caleb Davion, Nondi Steiner, Ian Davion or Geralk Marik to name a few. And Victor Steiner-Davion was also pretty lucky that he survived his bare-chested melee with Lincoln Osis.

An interesting wiki article, and more balanced than I expected. Ultimately, it seems to conclude that there are many "modern" historical interpretations of his abilities at the operational and strategic levels, some favorable, some not. Liddell Hart certainly had ulterior motives, but the book itself is still a good read.

mbear · « **Reply #49 on:** 09 March 2018, 08:13:04 »

Quote from: Weirdo on 08 March 2018, 17:08:32

Like I said earlier: Put him in something that can do Remote Sensor monitoring and/or satellite hacking. Make his job more than just a fluff/RP title, make it actually help your force on the tabletop.

It's too bad you're in 3075, because the Teppo sounds exactly like what you need. Of course if you have an OmniTank/OmniMech available, you could make your own version. Isn't there an Ajax config that has a Beagle probe, Guardian ECM, Command Console, and an Arrow launcher? That could be a good fit.

Black_Knyght · « **Reply #50 on:** 09 March 2018, 17:07:51 »

Intended less for combat & more for operational coordination in the field, any chance that something like this would work well?

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=60655.msg1391588#msg1391588

Requiemking · « **Reply #51 on:** 09 March 2018, 17:13:52 »

On the Clan side of things, you could always go for a Mist Lynx. Built in CAP, highly mobile, decently easy to repair, and possessing a fantastic info-war setup in the form of the MLX-C config.