Author Topic: What mechs are a great idea but really poor implimentation/comparison?  (Read 4083 times)

The Eagle

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I'm definitely a biased Marik fan, but I'd argue the Yeoman is actually a fantastic fire support design for a 3060's FWLM.  Allow me to explain.

A lot -- and I mean a lot -- of 3050's fire support 'Mechs mounted Artemis FCS to their LRM racks.  This is especially true in the FWL, where even the little Hammer tossed them on to its measly LRM-5s (and for the unaware, yes, the plural is unfortunately intended).  The Archer-4M has them.  The Apollo has them.  The Perseus-A has them.  About the only 'Mechs with LRMs in FWLM service that didn't have Artemis systems mounted NARC launchers instead (like the Trebuchet or Orion), but these had a similar issue.

And then, in the late 3050's, the FWLM started using the newly-designed technological terror called the semi-guided long-range missile (SGLRM).  SGLRMs get a bunch of bonuses when shot at a target designated by a friendly TAG laser, and unlike Artemis FCS, these bonuses are not turned off if the target is protected by Guardian ECM.  The League was already building or importing a bunch of battle armor and 'Mechs with TAG lasers, so the pairing made sense.

However, I'd imagine that Marik planners quickly ran into the issue that you can't mount both an Artemis seeker and a semi-guided seeker on the same missile.  So if you're loading SGLRMs into the bins of, say, an ARC-4M, you're now completely wasting two full tons that could be armor or medium lasers or heat sinks.

Enter the Yeoman.  It has a higher total throw-weight than any of the other medium or heavy fire support designs it was designed to supplant.  It didn't mount Artemis or NARC, so loading SGLRMs did not result in wasted tonnage and thus side-stepped the efficiency-loss issue.  The lack of secondary weapons and or super-thick armor wasn't considered an issue because if you're firing SGLRMs, you don't need LOS and thus can safely hide where enemy hunter-killers shouldn't be able to see you.

SGLRMs were originally, I'd imagine, mounted on non-upgraded Succession Wars variants of fire support 'Mechs because the 'Mech itself needed no upgrades to its internal systems.  So long as there was a Hermes or some Achileus skulking about, that 'Mech had become more accurate with its missile fire.  However, FM:FWL (dated 3058) states the FWLM 'Mech corps has about 70% of its strength fielding post-Helm upgrades due to the rapid re-industrialization that occurred in the wake of the Marik-Davion Outreach pact.  By the time the Yeoman entered service in 3060, that upgrade percentage would have been inching even higher.  This in turn means that the number of SW-era designs capable of fielding SGLRMs without suffering compatibility issues with Artemis or NARC is rapidly shrinking.

If you're a military planner, seeing that inefficiency in fire support -- and since this is the FWLM we're talking about, bear in mind that LRMs are one of their preferred weapons -- is going to cause some concern.  Do you abandon the SGLRM as a technology?  Start your refit cycle all over to remove A4/NARC?  Or, do you bring into service a fire support platform that is purpose-built to utilize SGLRMs and avoid the mass inefficiency issue?  It's my belief that League planners chose Door Number Three and thus we have the Walking BOOM Box, the mobile billboard advertising your death, that is the YMN-6Y Yeoman.  And if you need more evidence this was intended, then consider that the Yeoman was built by Curtiss MiliTech.  Curtiss MiliTech also manufactured, at about the same time, the EGL-2M Eagle which is, in effect, a jumping TAG system.  It's almost as if Curtiss designed the two to work in tandem.

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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Only for the mech I can't think something worse than charger, or at least among what I remember. The concept of heavy armored recon was great, but by the gods why those damned Wells Techmologies chosen 80 tons and put a 400 fusion engine on it??? Only if it were 75 tonner and house a 375 fusion it is WAY better even on the era - for it ensures the better protection of up to 14 tons of armor and more tonnage for the better gears such as upgraded weapons and/or jump jets. Even before consider an XL engine and more advanced and expensive gear, what charger suffered was the failure of realization, rather than the failure of the principal concept.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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The CGR-1A1 existed largely so that there was a canon mech that used a 400 rated engine.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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The CGR-1A1 existed largely so that there was a canon mech that used a 400 rated engine.

Yes I know, and it will serve as the fastest assault mech that have 5/8 MP(or you need a large engine that needs experimental rule and is very inefficient in overall too). But those facts does not hides its ridiculous design - actually, I am dead sure that it's an intended failure for the game developer to put a silly unit on the setting, and they surely knows the problem and actually want to make it problematic to run.

Yes, for developers' perspective, it would be not a bad idea nor it implimented poorly, for they want a bad mech to put in the first place and is actually bad both for fluff and table alike, so it's nothing but successful!

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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No, I'm saying the OOC reason is really the only justification for its existence.  In universe it really doesn't have a justification.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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No, I'm saying the OOC reason is really the only justification for its existence.  In universe it really doesn't have a justification.

I don't think that OOC reason is what we want to deny. And about in universe? Well at least they have a plan - a durable scout - and is not THAT bad and could be realized at the time even without expensive high tech stuffs such as XL engine. But the output is one of the worst failure we could imagine. So, at least the initial idea could be justfied, I think. The rest of those were a full load of garbage, though.

klarg1

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This is the SLDF. They specialized. They had a 'Mech that was precision-engineered and thoroughly field-tested to die in cities. They had an IFV with a laser in every firing arc but no infantry bay. If there was a 2km stretch of open ground, then by Cameron they had a battalion of Hussars assigned to it.

OK. This comment made my morning.

Well played.

glitterboy2098

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i'd argue the Magi wasn't meant to be an IFV, more of a "Support Fighting Vehicle" akin to the role of the BMPT. it's not meant to carry infantry, it's meant to drive alongside APC's/True-IFV's to provide supporting fire. especially in urban enviroments. (but yeah, the weapons layout is inefficent for what it is)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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I want to know what exactly how its performance "put all doubts of its abilities aside," as Sarna puts it.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

SteelRaven

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I'm guessing fluff wise; the vehicle being a fast moving bullet hose had some value when the SLDF forces had many peace keeping operations in urban environment, it also wouldn't make a terrible escort at the front of a convoy thanks to its speed and armor. It's is defiantly less fitted for full on armor on armor combat we see more of later but the SLDF had other tanks at the time more suited for that. It's another vehicle that is niche and makes more sense in the fluff but with a load out that is very 'why?' inspiring while performing on the table top.   
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