Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle  (Read 16194 times)

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #60 on: 08 August 2012, 01:47:50 »
Has it actually become part of Lyran tactical doctrine that when facing Clan opponents, try to draw them into a city fight?

cheers,

Gabe

The Lyrans also have other opponents when it was designed, like the snakes and the League.  While the Fortune's fluff has it being deployed with militia, no reason that it couldn't also be used in an offensive capacity in urban operations.  Outside of cities, the massive military-industrial complexes that produce mechs and vehicles seem tailor-made for it as well; the Hesperus II force kept some for that reason.

blitzy

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #61 on: 08 August 2012, 04:45:38 »
The first rule of urban jungle warfare... ;D

"When in doubt drop a building"?

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A. Lurker

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #62 on: 08 August 2012, 05:52:19 »
The first rule of urban jungle warfare... ;D

Ah, yes. "Remove the (urban) jungle."

Niceties like evacuating the civilians first are, strictly speaking, optional. Especially if it's not your city anyway. >:D

SCC

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #63 on: 08 August 2012, 06:37:51 »
Ah, yes. "Remove the (urban) jungle."

Niceties like evacuating the civilians first are, strictly speaking, optional. Especially if it's not your city anyway. >:D
Not really, a destroyed city isn't worth winning

A. Lurker

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #64 on: 08 August 2012, 08:18:51 »
Not really, a destroyed city isn't worth winning

Well, that's a matter of objectives. Am I trying to conquer the city? Hold it? Or is my priority the simple destruction of the OpFor and the city just the terrain I happen to find myself fighting in on this particular occasion?

Jellico

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #65 on: 09 August 2012, 04:51:27 »
Consider for a moment the Fortune and Demolisher II's favorite fighting location.  In a city, 12 hexes is a rather long street.
12 hexes aren't uncommon on standard BT city maps.
More importantly 9 hex streets are even more common. It's medium range that kills, not long.

gyedid

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #66 on: 09 August 2012, 07:58:53 »
The Lyrans also have other opponents when it was designed, like the snakes and the League.  While the Fortune's fluff has it being deployed with militia, no reason that it couldn't also be used in an offensive capacity in urban operations.  Outside of cities, the massive military-industrial complexes that produce mechs and vehicles seem tailor-made for it as well; the Hesperus II force kept some for that reason.

Yes, but again, this just reinforces the (my) perception that the Fortune (and Demolisher II) is a close-quarters specialist that really shouldn't be deployed outside of that role, and isn't really that fearsome to a Clan force that can neuter it from range--unless they happen to HAVE to engage it in an environment where it shines.  CAN you use a Fortune in other kinds of terrain?  Sure, but definitely not without partners that can offer it ranged covering fire. 

As for its deployment with militia, I think this is largely a consequence of the intent to make the Fortune a bigger, badder Hetzer, as that vehicle is a longtime standby for dirtbag militia.  And I would really watch it when having to face FWL opponents; considering the era involved, League forces will quite likely have aerospace support, SG-LRMs, and the TAGgers needed to use them effectively.

cheers,

Gabe
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Scotty

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #67 on: 09 August 2012, 08:02:31 »
12 hexes aren't uncommon on standard BT city maps.
More importantly 9 hex streets are even more common. It's medium range that kills, not long.

That's what I meant.  In a city, you're significantly more likely to suddenly end up in range of twin boomsticks of doom than you are in an open field, simply because many of the streets are short enough that a Fortune can just pop out of an alley and be in range.
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Jellico

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #68 on: 09 August 2012, 14:27:39 »
I have really only seen that work with hidden rules. Even double blind sees it happen less because of both sides fumbling in the dark. Mind you I think hidden rules are basically stupid from a game play point of view, even using active probes one is slowed down so much they can't get defensive mods. A player is forced to use infantry as "mine detectors" in both cases. So you have games where you come prepared. And you have games where you can't be bothered with 20 extra units and you go through an extended series of "Suprise Demolisher!" "Suprise SRM Carrier!" With no effective counter.

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #69 on: 09 August 2012, 16:54:35 »
Yes, but again, this just reinforces the (my) perception that the Fortune (and Demolisher II) is a close-quarters specialist that really shouldn't be deployed outside of that role, and isn't really that fearsome to a Clan force that can neuter it from range--unless they happen to HAVE to engage it in an environment where it shines.  CAN you use a Fortune in other kinds of terrain?  Sure, but definitely not without partners that can offer it ranged covering fire. 

As for its deployment with militia, I think this is largely a consequence of the intent to make the Fortune a bigger, badder Hetzer, as that vehicle is a longtime standby for dirtbag militia.  And I would really watch it when having to face FWL opponents; considering the era involved, League forces will quite likely have aerospace support, SG-LRMs, and the TAGgers needed to use them effectively.

cheers,

Gabe

The Fortune doesn't operate in a vacuum either, even in militia units. 

oldfart3025

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #70 on: 17 August 2012, 11:23:10 »
The Fortune, while opening the door for more Lyran money jokes, is no laughing matter itself. Yet another rolling Lyran brick of overcompensation, it's highly effective.

Wheeled chassis for those relaxing skeet shooting cruises downtown, two big cluster guns with plenty of ammo, and fourteen tons of armor. What more could Thomas Hogarth's kids want upon getting their driver's licenses?

All jokes aside, the Fortune is a deadly urban assault/defense platform. As an "alley basher", the 3/5 movement rating is no big deal. And the wheeled chassis is fitting, all things considered.

Armor protection is very good. The 14 tons of standard is allocated fairly well, with superb coverage. The aft is a little lacking when compared to the rest of the vehicle, but thirty five points is still what I consider acceptable rear coverage in an urban environment.

What makes this beauty sweet isn't just the twin LB-20X ACs in the turret. What's really nice about this thing is the size of the magazine. It isn't often that a unit toting a Class 20 BFG is this generously fed. Eight tons gives players some options in what kind of "mix n' match" they want in terms of munitions. In my player group, the usual division is four tons Cluster munitions and four tons of HEAP. A fairly even, but still versatile, loadout for the guns.

The Fortune has some issues, however. One minor nitpick on my end is that all of the weapons are turret mounted. There are no hull mounted secondary weapons, which can be a real pain in the event of turret lock. Secondaries would also allow for better coverage in the confines of a city.

The other glaring flaw is the lack of crew protection from ammunition explosions. In urban AOs, ammo explosions are a common problem. The absence of a CASE system is strange, from my POV.

The C3M variant is nice, insofar as it finally brings CASE to the design. And the classic LB-10X isn't a bad substitute in an urban combat vehicle. Unfortunately, I don't have much use for C3 in city ops. But it's worth taking just for the CASE system alone.

We haven't tinkered with the design much here at home. The only mod common is dropping a half-ton of armor for CASE on the base Fortune, and upgrading the armor to standard ferro-fibrous.  But only 25-30% of Fortunes played are modded to this standard. Most are standard models, or on occasion, a C3M variant.

As good as the Fortune is, it has never taken the place of the "classics" used in urban fun and games. The are still plenty of Hetzers, Devastators, and Demolishers used, making up the bulk of urban AFV TO&Es. But there is room for the newcomers, because the more, the merrier.

Just my two cents worth.
« Last Edit: 17 August 2012, 11:26:33 by oldfart3025 »
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chanman

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle
« Reply #71 on: 18 August 2012, 00:34:13 »
For the true sadist, moving to standard AC/20s still lets you bring a sizeable quantity of precision ammo to the field. Those scouts won't know what hit 'em.

 

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