BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: Crackerb0x on 11 October 2018, 05:31:38
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So, in my experience, the TRO gives you some idea of how the machine works, but there's no test like combat.
With this in mind, I'm wondering, oh hivemind of the forum, what are BattleMechs, combat vehicles, infantry, or battle armor that were total monsters on the field.
Recently I got to try the MAD-3R Marauder for the first time in an intro-tech game for the first time, literally ever, and I understand the love it gets. It's a monster.
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For me it was the Jagermech 6H. On paper it looks average at best, but when a Mad Cat runs up to you and you launch 90 rockets at it is priceless.
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My favorite 3145 design is the Black Hawk Standard. It didn't start out as my fav, though. I originally took it as a medium slot-filler mech for a company sized force in Alpha Strike, in my first AS game it utterly destroyed a Marauder II Bounty Hunter... every gamer after that it just wrecked whatever mech I sent it after: Atlas 3, Mad Cat 4, it died a few times, but it always took down a bigger high value mech with it.
I've only used it twice in regular Battletech, and both times it's shower of SRMs have done severe damage quickly. Either multiple head hits ( in one game 3 head rolls in one 16 missile attack ), or shredding armor off by the ton.
In 3145 games, it's always my first choice now.
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Is it the ERLL or SRMs?
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Bloodhound. Looks weird, didn't really seem like much on the record sheet, ignored it for years.
Then I got one in a Grinder game, and actually ran it.
It's a blast. Even if you don't have much use for the Beagle probe, the weaponry is surprisingly effective against other scout units, and can sting an unwary heavy from behind pretty nicely- and the speed makes it quite able to find its way back there. It's tough enough to survive most encounters with similar-scope units as well.
Never would have given it a second glance if not for that game, but I adore the Bloodhound now.
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One surprise that I ran into way back was when I first played a Hermes II "Mercury" variant. The standard HER-2S isn't terrible as a Medium command element of a Light recon lance, but doesn't have the firepower to engage anything serious, so I wasn't expecting much out of yet another Hermes, especially with no long-ranged gun, just a few MLs, MGs, and a Flamer. It quickly became apparent that the 7/11 speed gave it enough mobility to put the weapons where they were needed, the 11 heatsinks were sufficient to fire everything except either the Flamer or one ML turn after turn without building heat, the armor was quite respectable for its weight class, and the combination of MLs followed by MGs allowed it to tear up back armor and then fill the holes with tasty bits of lead (crit-seeking), scoring a couple of surprisingly easy kills against 'Mechs far above its weight. I'm still a big fan.
The MAD-3R was an early favorite, and I still love the old artwork for it, but the unpadded ammo in the left torso, combined with the relatively thin side torso armor (compared to just about every other location) has plagued it in several games, and it's definitely light on heat sinks. There are better variants, or else a simple change or two to deal with the ammo problem, like swapping the AC for a LL and some extra heatsinks, or to an LRM-10 rack, a couple of heatsinks in the side torso (to provide some padding for the ammo), and one more ton of armor mostly used to beef up the sides a bit, could have fixed it. It's GOOD, but so close to being "RIGHT" without actually being there that it hurts. Of course, much of that was due to the design rules change between the ORIGINAL rules and all of the later versions, which moved most of the heat sinks to inside the engine itself (originally, ALL of the heat sinks in a 'Mech took up slots), so the stacks of heat sinks protecting the ammo were no longer there.....but still not as "splody" as a Crusader (aka "Roman Candle") or a Trebuchet. I still have a nostalgic affinity for the venerable MAD-3R, and enjoy running them, but am well aware of its issues.
The Whitworth was another surprise when I first used one, especially as it was frequently derided on the boards as the "Worthless". Turns out, it's a fantastic "bracket fire" design: either you fire the long-ranged weapons, or the short-ranged, but not both. It's got as much armor as a Dervish that's 15 tons heavier, packs roughly the same firepower, and surrenders one point of movement and jump distance for those 15 tons. Not a bad deal. Since I was playing a mercenary campaign at the time, heavily constrained by prices, the smaller engine and gyro on the Whitworth made it an affordable option which I had some initial hesitation over. Once I fielded the 'Mech, it contributed effective fire support to the rest of the group (from a range where speed doesn't matter that much), and when the ammo ran out, its triple MLs and respectable armor were surprisingly useful against the beat-up front-line units still remaining on the opposing side. The Catapult serves the same function: providing effective fire support from well behind the front line until the ammo runs out, and then you discover that the REAL threat is the MLs.
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For me it might be the Raven II . . . I took it to try out the TSEMP in a open game. It was fun to run around and mess with someone's high BV shooter every other turn. I would dash out from behind cover to get in close range, fire the TSEMP and then run off behind cover no matter what happened with the roll. Messed with the other side enough that it drew some attention on that flank . . . when I overextended trying to get more damage out of it, it got knocked down . . . and then they massed fire to get rid of the annoyance.
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MGL-T2 Mongrel. This thing turned out to be a beast. Especially since a couple of the opposing 'Mechs were packing lots of ATMs.
It's fast enough to backstab and has just enough firepower to open some holes (which the retractable blade seemed to find!).
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The Raptor.
it is 25 tons and has tissue paper for armour, with an XL engine.
That said, 11.5t of weapons and good stock configs make it a very potent backstabber, and can hit very hard. I took out a solitaire with it (A config).
for something that was supposed to be a testbed and not live long, it is hellishly effective.
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I think the Rakshasa fits the bill for me. It looks hideous, the weapons loadout seemed poor for a 75-tonner, and it had an XL with ammo in both side torsos. Heck, it was even fluffed as being a poor imitation of the Timber Wolf. Well, compared to the Timber Wolf it is pretty sad, but it is also loads cheaper in terms of BV. For the cost, it has actually served me quite well the couple times I've had to run one. I still think it is ugly as sin, but it can actually pull its weight. In fact, most of the variants end up being quite a bit nicer than the original, and the -1Ar is dangerously close to being just plain good.
On the other end side of things, I was surprised at just how hit-or-miss the standard King Crab can be. Sure, Dual AC/20's are frightening, but only if they ever manage to get in range. It is slow enough to be prone to getting picked apart before it really manages to bring the 20's into play. Without those big guns, a single large laser and LRM15 isn't very scary. There are plenty of other Assaults with a similar problem, but I think the King Crab is the one where reality was the furthest from my expectations. The standard Atlas isn't any faster and doesn't have any more to offer in terms of longer-ranged weapons, but with more of the weaponry in the torsos, it seems to still be around more often once the Atlas manages to close. If I lose an arm on an Atlas, no big deal. Lose one on the big crab, or even just get it opened up and start taking crits, and you are looking at losing major firepower.
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You guys are gonna think I'm an idiot, but because Mechwarrior trained me to not value long range weapons that weren't high-mounted, I never looked twice at the Awesome or the Warhammer. Both are now mainstay mechs in MegaMek.
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The Daikyu. It's a solid heavy skirmisher with excellent mobility for the size. It's great BV value at 1603 as well.
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You guys are gonna think I'm an idiot, but because Mechwarrior trained me to not value long range weapons that weren't high-mounted, I never looked twice at the Awesome or the Warhammer. Both are now mainstay mechs in MegaMek.
Fortunately for tabletop BT, "high-mounted covers" anything not mounted in the legs. ;)
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Bloodhound.
One surprise that I ran into way back was when I first played a Hermes II "Mercury" variant.
Since these two got mentioned 1st and they are my go to examples, I'll add the Tenshi A to the list. You'll either love it or hate depending on what you think of VSPs. I think VSPs are pretty awesome. The first time I ran one was with a 5/4 pilot in a roughly 2k bv melee. I'm not a big MRM guy, but when everything hits and I frequently did, it just savaged my opponent. My opinion of it before I used it was 'this could be good' and coming out of it each and every time I think its awesome. As much as I try, I really can't get behind most other DC designs, but this one is great.
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The Ryoken E.
I didn't expect it to be a bad mech, but when I got into the side arc of an untouched Turkina at 3 hexes and put 18 HE missiles into the Right Torso, well, there you go.
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For me it is the Dervish which in fluff seems to be looked down upon but seeing it in action it seems very effective.
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The one that still stands out to me is the Phoenix Hawk 4L. Had one match where it showed off just how tough the thing could actually be and it proved surprisingly combat effective after being hit by two AC-20 shots.
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The Raptor.
it is 25 tons and has tissue paper for armour, with an XL engine.
That said, 11.5t of weapons and good stock configs make it a very potent backstabber, and can hit very hard. I took out a solitaire with it (A config).
for something that was supposed to be a testbed and not live long, it is hellishly effective.
The Raptor has been a favorite of mine since...probably when TRO:3058 dropped. It has to many medium lasers to simply ignore, while other configs offer MRM or SRM spam on a budget.
For me, it was the Catapult. I'm not sure why I had never tried it before running one of the First Strike scenarios as I like LRM spam. The problem is that the cat is never run as an LRM boat. Sure, it starts out that way, but I swear that every game that I have used it in, the damn thing ends up kicking people left and right. The jumpjets should help it move away from the opposition, but it seems that they actually force the Catapult ever closer to the target. It's crazy..... :drool:
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The Crab, especially the Royal version. It's stupidly indestructible for a 50 ton 'Mech. I love that crazy little thing.
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Jinggau.
I truly underestimated it, but it has always been a stellar MVP in my games - both playing for and against me :P
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The Raptor has been a favorite of mine since...probably when TRO:3058 dropped. It has to many medium lasers to simply ignore, while other configs offer MRM or SRM spam on a budget.
For me, it was the Catapult. I'm not sure why I had never tried it before running one of the First Strike scenarios as I like LRM spam. The problem is that the cat is never run as an LRM boat. Sure, it starts out that way, but I swear that every game that I have used it in, the damn thing ends up kicking people left and right. The jumpjets should help it move away from the opposition, but it seems that they actually force the Catapult ever closer to the target. It's crazy..... :drool:
Also a huge fan of the Raptor and the Dervish mentioned above.
The Catapult, while a good mech overall, doesn't really strike me as a good LRM boat with those shallow ammo bins. If your game allows you to refit or customize, that flaw is easily fixed by replacing either 2 heat sinks (preferred) or 2 medium lasers for 2 more tons of ammo. It is a good mech at wearing down a target with LRMs to finish them off with its Medium Lasers. Similar to how the Dervish above operates. Stay just behind the mainline mechs while emptying the LRM ammo bins, then push forward relieving those damaged mechs with your thinner but fresh armor.
Personally for me it is the Shadow Hawk 2D. If you can get your opponent to focus on other mechs this mech can cause a lot of havoc.
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MGL-T2 Mongrel. This thing turned out to be a beast. Especially since a couple of the opposing 'Mechs were packing lots of ATMs.
It's fast enough to backstab and has just enough firepower to open some holes (which the retractable blade seemed to find!).
Likewise. I completely underestimated it on paper, and then seeing it in action, I was sold.
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The Catapult is not really a line combatant but a heavy hit and run 'Mech. Limited armor and ammo coupled with jump jets and heavy laser battery means it hits hard but can't stay around. The C4 variant is more of a long-range hit and run attacker as opposed to mixed range C1. For line combat, you'll want an Archer (heavy armor, more missiles).
For Introductory level games, the Catapult has just the right amount of missiles. It doesn't have terribly thick armor (but neither does its opposition usually) so limited ammo is a good thing (plus there's the ever present danger of ammo explosions in introductory games).
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The Daimyo-1K. It's solid but uninspired, and I gave it little attention until I randomly ended up playing with one.
The game was Terran Corridor BattleTech MUSE. Back then the best (only?) way to get multiplayer online mech on mech action was via the text-only telnet phenomenon that was then-popular. No graphics, just plain text to work with. And it was real-time, so when you called up a map rendered in ascii to show unit positions, you had to keep a head count to know where your and other mechs should be in the seconds subsequent to that. I drove my Daimyo in literal circles around an introtech Awesome, tearing it to pieces as it tried in vain to track and engage me with its PPCs.
Granted the game's play was highly unconventional compared to Boardgame Battletech (and one where I had the speed advantage to capitalize upon the "Circle of Death" technique that was OP in that format)... but the skirmish left me with a soft spot for the mech to this day. It's all around good, if not exceptional.
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The Clint, specifically the CLNT-2-3T. Maybe it's luck or something, but I've never had one fail to kill at least its weight in enemy tonnage. On paper it looks lackluster at best, but something about the design seems to work, at least for me.
I remember being pleasantly surprised the first time that I used the VND-1R Vindicator years upon years ago. I thought it was too slow for a Medium, but it's just a badger that can take a beating and still dish out damage.
I'll echo the Raptor Omni. I ended up with one in a brief MW 3rd Edition campaign and was pretty "Meh" about it. I had my sights set on a Raven (I was playing an EW expert), but didn't get it on the roll. That "Meh" turned to joy when I realized just how much pod space I had to fill. I was able to pod in all of the EW gear I wanted and still have a decent weapons loadout.
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I was surprised with the Sagitarre....but then again I didn't know what it was. It was as a world wide even and I went up to it close range with a some heavy mech, and got blown up in 1 turn with those pulse laser and TC. Liked that mech ever since
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Likewise. I completely underestimated it on paper, and then seeing it in action, I was sold.
It is the AC5. It puts people off. There are a few good Mechs in this list hiding behind an AC5.
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Ha Otoko - Good team mech when paired up with some interceptors like a pair of Grand Dragons or Panthers.
Blackjack Omni - Never was a fan of this particular Mech, though the configs are good. Saw a player use a full lance with mixed configs take down a balanced lance of Davion 3050 upgraded mediums (Centurions, Enforcer and something else).
LBX Urbie - Hard to play the range game against this design, and it's hard to rush in, too.
Striker - The old Star League predecessor to the Awesome, I got to play against one day, and the sucker took a beating. My goal was to get off the map, and I did, so it was left alive.
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The Stalker. I know it's written up as a powerhouse but I've had crazy good results with it. I've never lost one in combat despite using it as often as I can. It constantly surprises me.
The Locust. It's raw speed in 3025 made it a threat. I've dropped assaults with one. And with the Total Warfare changes to how they take damage it's death to infantry.
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In a reverse surprise...the Thunderbolt. On paper it's a good 'mech. People swear by it in actual play. I get creamed when I use it. :-[
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GHR-5H Grasshopper .
Probably one of the biggest early surprise mechs in the game .
It just seems so average compared to other designs until you use it .
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Phew, a lot of mechs fit this question for me. I've always liked seeing what I can get out of sub-optimal mechs, and have had surprisingly good results out of them many a time .
Charger: Yeah, it has popgun armament, but it is good in it's intended heavy recon role. It makes a great physical attacker though, and being cheap as chips can handle the hand to hand while more suitable mechs lay down the firepower.
Quickdraw: Again, not the best mech on paper but it does work well for heavy recon and physical attacks.
Crusader: Always favored the 3k, but even the 3r has done well for me in the past, as long as it sticks to missile support and dumps its ammo when appropriate.
Dragon: The Ac5 is a turn off, but if you take advantage of its cool-running nature you have a good skirmisher that can consistantly provide long range support on the move.
Whitworth: Only really 'bad' in the fluff, actually a great medium mech.
Cyclops: Compared to the Atlas, it's pants, but pretend it's a heavy and presto, you have a pocket Atlas. I've had it perform well as a bodyguard for my comander's Warhammer many a time.
Honorable mention: The Loki. Yeah it's not great. However when you've never seen Clan mechs before and one pops over a hill and slags your prize Warhammer at age 12...well yeah that was surprising.
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Jagermech-6S - I have never been a fan of the Rifleman-3N (not enough armour, not enough heatsinks to be able to use the firepower, and shallow ammo bin to boot). The fluff for the Jagermech-6S is that it was built as an improved replacement for the Rifleman but review the stats and it has even thinner armour, better on the heat but the popgun AC/5s augmented by bb-gun AC/2s means that you have compromised the firepower the twin large lasers offered on the Rifleman, and still have the problem of shallow ammo bins.
When playing OPFOR for a mate's Megamek campaign, I rolled one on a RAT. I was not trying to make life difficult for him, so with a sigh and a shrug I added it to the ORBAT for the pirate band that I was playing. During the battle I was able to get it onto a wooded elevation to provide fire support for the pirate battle line. It made life hell for my mate's unit, consistently plinking from distance while my mate could not afford to devote the turn of concentrated fire on the Jagermech to bring it down because he had to concentrate on my line of battle. I was impressed by its performance, I guess the trick is to have a battle line of brawlers and trooper mechs that effectively become mobile armour for the Jagermech. The paired AC2/AC5 look weak on paper but parking the Jagermech at the right range means it can get consistent hits that add up over a number of rounds.
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In a reverse surprise...the Thunderbolt. On paper it's a good 'mech. People swear by it in actual play. I get creamed when I use it. :-[
I have a similar issue with the Orion.
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Jagermech-6S - I have never been a fan of the Rifleman-3N (not enough armour, not enough heatsinks to be able to use the firepower, and shallow ammo bin to boot).
I recall that in the Rifleman MotW, there was discussion about how the Rifleman's weaknesses cancel each other out, in a way.
Initial fire pattern should go like laser-AC-AC, until the bin is empty (no heating up if you're stationary). At that point, you don't need to worry about heat anymore, and you can just fire all the lasers. Low amount of ammo is also a boon given that the 'Mech has thin armor.
The 'Mech is a battlecruiser really, more firepower than durability and sense.
That said, neither 'Mech is really not meant for line combat. They do fine in their intended task, though i'm not saying they couldn't be better even in that role.
As for the JagerMech and the Clint mentioned earlier (and most likely other similar "this looks kinda shit" units), i'm thinking they do well because opponents are likely to dismiss them as irrelevant due to their low damage output. Low armor doesn't matter if you aren't getting hit, and this gives time for their low damage output to add up.
Personally i'd be inclined to make some effort (but not too much) to take them out, if only to force them to be careful.
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It is the AC5. It puts people off. There are a few good Mechs in this list hiding behind an AC5.
It absolutely is. Saw that and thought "We don't need a clan Clint, the Clint IIc is already a clan clint, and its better than the clint." but I was wrong.
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The fluff for the 12C Longbow, describes the 7V as somewhat lacking.
The truth though, it's a fine long ranged support mech with a vicious
surprise for the unwary flanker. I often take issue with fluff, when it's
patently false.
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I often take issue with fluff, when it's patently false.
Amen to that.
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In a reverse surprise...the Thunderbolt. On paper it's a good 'mech. People swear by it in actual play. I get creamed when I use it. :-[
First qestion is which Thunderbolt and second would be whats your play style.
Allot of great mechs use LRMs but I'm crap with LRMs. For example; the Orion is a great mech as long as it's piloted by anyone but me. ;)
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It is the AC5. It puts people off. There are a few good Mechs in this list hiding behind an AC5.
It's the T1 with the AC/5. The T2 has a ProtoMech AC/8, Clan mediums, ECM, and AES on the arm with the Retractable Blade.
The ProtoMech AC/8 was a surprise all it's own. It was way more effective than I thought it'd be.
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First qestion is which Thunderbolt and second would be whats your play style.
ALL of them. I have tried the vast majority of TDR variants over twenty years of play, and except for two times, it ends in sadness, tears, and an ammo or engine explosion.
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One mech that's really surprised me in a negative way has been the Daishi. Every time I take one of those things out it either suffers a TAC to the gyro or ammo bin that cripples it at the start of the fight or it winds up being unable to hit the broadside of a barn from the inside.
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Going the other way I got one. Any Victor that doesn't have CASE or can't fight past nine hexes(twelve if using extreme range rules).
Even in environments where you'd think not being able to fight past 9 hexes wouldn't be a big deal Victors have performed terribly for me.
If they at least have CASE or can fight past nine hexes I get a lot better mileage out of them.
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ALL of them. I have tried the vast majority of TDR variants over twenty years of play, and except for two times, it ends in sadness, tears, and an ammo or engine explosion.
Lol it's Crusaders for us that seem to end that way. Thunderbolts on the other hand are just the opposite. As players we love them and as the GM they hate it when I use them as part of an opposing force.
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It is the AC5. It puts people off. There are a few good Mechs in this list hiding behind an AC5.
That is because so few mechs are built to properly utilize it.
They either have too many of them (2+) or not enough (0) when the key to the AC5, IMHO, is to compliment it with some other weapon (PPC, LL, LRM15, etc etc) so that you get a nice combo of heat v/s damage v/s tonnage that is in balance instead of something with horrible stats that I swear was only built to match the art. (looks at Rifleman)
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ALL of them. I have tried the vast majority of TDR variants over twenty years of play, and except for two times, it ends in sadness, tears, and an ammo or engine explosion.
Sounds like you need to run a pair. I've had interesting moments where one Mech will get all the bad luck, and all the good luck would fall on the other.
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The JM6-S Jagermech. Even before it became a mainstay in a sword and Dragon campaign my wife and I played. I was surprised at how few players regarded it as a thrwat, only to have armor peeled away steadily at PPC range over multiple turns while they were focusing on “real” threats like my P Hawks, Vindicators, or Centurions.
It led to a little Idiom “You may not fear the Jagermech, but by God you will respect it”
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Lol it's Crusaders for us that seem to end that way. Thunderbolts on the other hand are just the opposite. As players we love them and as the GM they hate it when I use them as part of an opposing force.
Crusaders, Thunderbolts, Orions, Highlanders, Stalkers, all of those famous powerhouses are just ammo bombs in my hands.
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is to compliment it with some other weapon (PPC, LL, LRM15, etc etc)
AC/5 to PPC: "Oh man, you're so much better than me"
:D
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He can also claim that this companion is hotter
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AC/5 to PPC: "Oh man, you're so much better than me"
:D
AC5 is less effective and efficient that PPC. On the other hand, it's also 7 tons lighter than PPC+single heat sinks.
It's indefensible after DHS, but definitely has it's place in introtech. 2 fully sinked PPC are 24 tons, accounting for engine mounted, as opposed to 17 tons for the PPC+ ac/5
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That assumes you're going for full heat neutrality. Or that you're not going to use those heatsinks for something else, like an array of short-range weapons.
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Who needs heat neutrality? Something like the Warhammer or Marauder works just fine. Fire all long-range weapons, you heat up a bit but you can do that a round or two in row without issues. Heck, -1 MP isn't necessarily a big drawback anyway (at least from 4/6 to 3/5, 5/8 to 4/6 is bigger deal), but i don't really push past 8 heat without at least a veteran pilot though. That's large margin for using twin PPCs.
2 fully sinked PPC are 24 tons, accounting for engine mounted, as opposed to 17 tons for the PPC+ ac/5
But with the latter combo, you also lose 25% damage, and introduce an explosive component to your 'Mech and limit your maximum endurance.
For lower weight and better range you could just use PPC+LRM-10 (deals a bit more damage than the AC/5 usually), assuming minimum range is not an issue. A bit more heat, but easy enough to manage, and you get a left-over ton or two for other stuff.
I can't actually recall any (intro level) 'Mechs with a PPC and AC/5 that isn't the Banshee 3E. And that 'Mech doesn't make good use of that combo, thanks to being way oversinked. PPC+AC/5 with a 'Mech with 11-13 heat sinks? Sure, why not. But i don't think that's an option.
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The Hellbringer C. ATMs, LB-20X, assortment of lasers. I looked at it and thought, "what the hell are you supposed to do?"
Stomp face, is the answer. Despite the armor, it just kinda beats the hell out of things. Beats them up very, very well.
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Yeah, that's a mech that runs up to your face screaming "one of us is going to die."
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I can't actually recall any (intro level) 'Mechs with a PPC and AC/5 that isn't the Banshee 3E.
The Striker STC-2C has both.
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I have to throw down two that surprised me, and it was going up against them that was the surprise. Classic 3025 mechs, the GHR-5H Grasshopper and the VTR-9B Victor. My brother used those both in a two on two battle against me back in the day. I was shocked at how effective they were (and still are.) They are mechs I look to when it's going to be a medium to short range battle.
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Another Raptor lover here. The two variants with dual large lasers (the A and the R, even if that one is a cheat) are vicious little monsters. Also surprised how decent an Ostscout can be. Sure, the original only had a ML, but it was an 8/12/8 ML. And the two CS variants are surprisingly scary. I still laugh at one of my favorite Osty moments. We were about to be shooed out of the store (was closing for the night), so as the last move of the night, I pulled a 10 hex charge into the back of an Avatar and tore its engine out, only taking armor damage in return. Not bad to take out twice your weight in one turn, no?
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I can't actually recall any (intro level) 'Mechs with a PPC and AC/5 that isn't the Banshee 3E. And that 'Mech doesn't make good use of that combo, thanks to being way oversinked. PPC+AC/5 with a 'Mech with 11-13 heat sinks? Sure, why not. But i don't think that's an option.
Wait. You forgot the Marauder already?
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Thunderbolt. My cousin loved them. Every time he used one it destroyed whatever I was fielding. At least twice to a cockpit critical from a flight of LRM's.
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Wait. You forgot the Marauder already?
The Marauder has 2 PPCs.
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The Marauder has 2 PPCs.
And an AC/5!
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Which is different from having one PPC and one AC-5. Hence it not being mentioned.
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But, oddly enough, I've used the AC/5 and a single PPC on the Marauder more often, while on the move in a game until it was worth firing both PPCs at once. (Think a back and forth punching style approach except where necessary.)
And, let's not forget the 3L, which has only a single PPC, AC/5 and Large Laser in addition to the two Medium Lasers.
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Predator.
I played it in a trial game with a new player who chose an annihilator, on a rolling hills map. I'd pop up when I had init, run back down until he lost LOS, until his sheet looked terrible. Then I traded him, explained how to play it, and we both had fun.
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One year in a club competition I took a force of UrbanMechs for fun. But then I found out that 2 lances of Urbies against ~5 enemies allowed me to knock down a mech at a time with vollies of 6-8 AC/10s. It got me to the final, and I would have won with slightly better luck. (My opponent had taken a force of fast short-range mechs. My half of the map was sinkholes, which helped slow him down without blocking LoS.)
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Crusaders, Thunderbolts, Orions, Highlanders, Stalkers, all of those famous powerhouses are just ammo bombs in my hands.
Highlanders seem to be just like Thunderbolt's for us. Orion's are 50/50 it seems. Stalker's seem to blow up if something sneezes in their general direction.
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And, let's not forget the 3L, which has only a single PPC, AC/5 and Large Laser in addition to the two Medium Lasers.
Let's. I'm a CapCon player but that thing is nonsense. (Of course, i don't really rate the other House variants of the Marauder highly either. Exchanging weapons for additional heat sinks doesn't really work there, it becomes oversinked.)
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I can't actually recall any (intro level) 'Mechs with a PPC and AC/5 that isn't the Banshee 3E. And that 'Mech doesn't make good use of that combo, thanks to being way oversinked. PPC+AC/5 with a 'Mech with 11-13 heat sinks? Sure, why not. But i don't think that's an option.
Treb 7K is the only one not mentioned (Mad 3L/3R, Striker 2C, Banshee 3E)
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I'll put another vote in for the -1R Vindicator. This weekend I put one on the table in a mercenary campaign as part of the opfor and it kept a -1A Merlin solely occupied for the better part of 7 turns. Probably could have gone on longer but a lucky engine crit slowed me down.
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Treb 7K is the only one not mentioned (Mad 3L/3R, Striker 2C, Banshee 3E)
Oh, right, that crazy-ass "what the hell were they thinking" Trebuchet. I get that Kuritans don't like missiles maybe, and Catapult K2 is pretty good direct fire support machine but did they really need to turn the Trenchbucket into one as well?
Points for not making it totally terrible though. 11 heat sinks, decent speed, OK armor (for introductory level). The SRM-2 is the biggest waste but it works.
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SRM2 for infernoes . . . back when that was the rule.
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Back in BMR, infernoes were far nastier. And in rules earlier than that, they were SRM-2 & SSRM-2 only. That SRM-2 on the thunderbolt was murderous, and the reason t-bolts could consistently kill Orion.
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Dasher H. Cheap enough you can get a really good pilot, and then use the good pilot and TarComp to target somebody's back torso with far too many 6-point hits. It's a one-job wonder, but it does that job really well.
You can kill assaults fairly consistently like that.
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Under BMR, Infernos were instant death to vehicles but had a fairly negligible effect on mechs.
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I got back into Battletech after a long hiatus, the last few years have really been a golden time to get back into it. Really, just having Megamek allows one to get into the nitty-gritty by itself, and really see how things play out and cost, before I was only into the fluff and novels because I didn't have like minded people to play with. I've purchased various source books lately, so I really think Megamek is a boon to the business.
As I began my career as the leader of a mercenary command that grew out of the security unit for a family trade and logistics firm, these were my mech (and vehicle) surprises:
1. Axeman, Marauder and Phoenix Hawk clan invasion upgrades (and not in a good way): Growing up these were my hero mechs. In The Crescent Hawks Revenge, the Marauder MAD-5S was my jam! The Phoenix Hawks with the XL engines and dual ERLLs? They seemed like the hero mechs for our swash buckling mechwarriors to help stem the tide of ravaging Clanners!
Axeman? I thought they were the smart way to simplify your acquisitions and maintenance with one chassis being able to handle your close in fighting and LRM fire support needs, all the while having that melee edge....then I began to mess with MechLab and the reality of the cost of XL engines settled in. :o
A new character *popped* into existence in my head cannon...the Unit's Head Accountant. My Mercenary units almost always only have XLE mechs they salvaged.
2. The Chameleon. For a mech that is often forgotten, it's pretty nice. Anything a Phoenix Hawk can do, a Chameleon could in theory do better. Sure it could be a tad more expensive too, but the chassis can carry more armor, hit harder in Melee, they are easy to pilot, and I'd like to think you could find a dilapidated model to refurbish at your local academy for a bargain price.
The CLN-7W seems like a great "modern" mech for your average Mercenary command to get their hands on. Standard engine, ERLL, ML, MPL, double heatsinks and nine tons of standard armor. I'd experiment with trading the MPL for two more MLs and you have a machine than can force a PSR. The CLN-7W is close to the set up my mercenaries run from upgraded 3025 tech Chameleons.
They also run on the famous 300 series engines, so you can have some repair synergies with some really gnarly mechs up the tonnage range. :)
3. Marauder II MAD-5B: I always thought a Marauder II would be out of reach for any non-Mary Sue Mercenaries I would run....but in an age where Wolverine-7Ds run 11M C-bills, and the above mentioned MAD-5S runs 15.5M C-bills, a MAD-5B with virtually the same firepower as a MAD-5S is a good deal at 10.4M C-bills! Admittedly thing are less crazy in terms of BV.
4. Grasshoppers in general, the 5N in particular: I always had the fluff of the 5N in the back of my mind (heat hog), but some play testing really lead me to believe that most pilots would prefer it to the 5H (1PPC+ 5MLs > 1 LL+LRM5+4ML, in most situations...Thunder LRMs not withstanding). Heat management and weapon choice is easier, and the concentrated damage of the PPC is arguably better than the more spread out damage of the LL+LRM5.
Latter on in the era of double heats sinks and FF armor, while the early Clan invasion era cannon upgrades are infamously not that great, I've run some "easy" upgrades (no XL Engines or "adding endo-steel", as stated above, my unit only runs those if the mech came with them, and preferably was salvaged ) with dual ERLLs, MLs and a hatchet that are an absolute terror and good value alternatives to Axemen.
3. Dragoon. Jesus, these things are a terror. Really fun and optimized mechs. These need to be brought back by the TPTB as Imperio mechs from a reactivated RWR plant on a long lost colony found by Seekers. Yes, I know the Dark Age Comstar splinter faction had a new variant.
4. Intro-Awesome and the 9Q: How can these be a surprise? Let's put it this way. A 9Q with four PPCs and double heat sinks costs 7.5M C-bills. An intro-tech Victor? 8M C-Bills.
Due to the relatively small engines, Awesomes are ridiculous values, something that comes as a surprise when you go from a fan of the novels to playing actual games/using MM. You just imagine they are crazy expensive because of the large number of PPCs. They are slow of course, convoy escort is not their thing, but for the right mission profiles they are brutal.
5. Scorpion: The supposedly "maligned" quad. The gunnery bonus they get as quads basically turns them into Pulse PPC carriers, or a PPC carriers with tarcomps. In an intro tech/early Clan invasion setting that's a heck of an advantage.
I played an attack on a pirate base scenario, with my Marik allies advancing down a valley towards the Pirate base from the NW and me from the NE. A swarm of light mechs and good light vehicles boiled out of the Pirate base. The allied AI FWL unit got a bit shot up by the pirates. I, on the other hand, had a solid line of medium mechs screening my advance, with a Scorpion from my Marik liaison that I controlled running a bit behind.
It just absolutely tore s**t up. After picking a nice position where it didn't need to move much so as to minimize heat, it started racking up kills or forcing cripples to retreat left and right, usually after they'd been softened up a bit by my screening Meds. I was very impressed. My mercenaries are always on the look out to buy one of these "poor reputation" mechs.
6. Blackjack BJ-3: Blackjacks are another "poor rep design", but the BJ-3 model? Two PPCs, four MLs, 4/6/4 movement, 88% of max armor? Wow. That compares favorably to a stock 3025 Warhammer, and a BJ-3 is a good deal cheaper.
Production of these little beasties started in the Fourth Succession War, and continued in St. Ives afterwards. So by the start of the Clan invasion they've been in production almost 20 years? Megamek has an intro date of 3042. So there may be a discrepancy.
Still, the only advanced component is the heat sinks. Even if you can't convince St. Ives to sell you some right off the production floor, If you can get your hands on some double heat sinks, and pair of bog standard PPCs, I have to imagine that refit kits for the specific wiring and software changes should be available "much" sooner than for the vast majority of other advanced designs. My Mercenaries are also on the look out for used Blackjacks they can convert to a dependable cannon design for which refit kits should be available "early".
Vehicle honorable mentions:
1. Prowler: These things really can do everything. Many of my combined arms units have come to the conclusion that they need to form demi-companies with at least one of these at their heart. The "Support" variant with an LRM 15, two MLs, a SRM-2 (loaded with infernos) and a 4T infantry bay can go a long way to meeting your fire support, APC/IFV/BA carrier, anti-infantry and general fire power needs. The 3025 variant with 10T of cargo space can be your delivery in hostile terrain hero.
2. Hunter: In another thread I noticed that someone asked why these tanks are so comparably expensive . I disagree, not only are they an excellent value...the introtech versions are arguably a bit Nerfed! 8) Seriously.
With some slight tweaking they are pretty scary. Supposedly they mount a flamer in the back to cover their retreat. OK, but in a lance of them do you really need four flamers? A lance of them really compares well versus an Archer. If in a lance of them you replaced the flamer with a ML on three of them you'd bring twice weight of LRM fire (80 LRMs) , 3 MLs (MLs are good for fires too!), and a flamer, with a higher top speed, just as good mobility in woods, and really decent armor (an intro tech Hunter has 32 point of armor on the front, and if you bring 4, your enemy has to disperse their fire, not to mention initiative issues.) You also save 1.85 M C-bills over an Archer.
Even in terms of BV, you can get two Hunters and some nice spotting units for the price of an Archer, and proceed to pound your enemies from cover, and relocate at 86 KPH if they get close.
Similarly, with some minor tweaks you can get a lot more millage out of the LRM 15 and LRM 10 variants. You can replace the LRM 10 variant with a version with 4 MLs, 2 LRM5s, and 2 MGs...a pair of which is a better value than an Ontos.
3. Vedettes, particularly the Liao variant. The Liao variant with two MLs is dirt cheap, has twice the effective fire power of the standard version, won't run out of main gun ammo, moves at 86 KPH and has enough frontal armor to survive an AC/20 hit or two PPCs.
I'd imagine even a strict GM will let you scale back the ammo bomb of 2 TONS of MG ammunition when you are on an well industrialized world...not even a high tech one. Cutting it down to half a ton will allow you to increase the armor by a ton and mount an additional MG on the turret. A lance of these brings 8 MLs to the field at 86 KPM with decent armor.
I remember once using a lance of these to rush and hold a valuable wooded hill. With a pair of mechs to reinforce them, they broke a strong enemy force that tried to dig them out. I've cooked up a few introtech tank destroyers with the turrets removed that are really tough without using any advanced or expensive tech.
That's it for now...I'll see if can think of a few more.
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Under BMR, Infernos ... had a fairly negligible effect on mechs.
I'd say that depended on the mech model really.
Direwolf-A, No.
Javelin-10N, Yes.
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Under BMR, Infernos were instant death to vehicles but had a fairly negligible effect on mechs.
Let me rephrase. Under introtech, the older inferno rules were brutal on mechs. 6 heat a turn means most single-heat-sink mechs, already under-sinked in 3025, into victims waiting to happen.
Jenner can't afford to alpha. Orion goes from 3 guns heat neutral to one. Challenger and Awesome have to drop a gun. And it only took hitting once with a single inferno missile every couple turns.
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5. Scorpion: The supposedly "maligned" quad. The gunnery bonus they get as quads basically turns them into Pulse PPC carriers, or a PPC carriers with tarcomps. In an intro tech/early Clan invasion setting that's a heck of an advantage.
Quads don't get a gunnery bonus. They get a bonus to PSRs to avoid falling.
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Hollander 7F
I'll probably never get to use it that way again, but wow, do heavy gauss make a dent.
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Hollander 7F
I'll probably never get to use it that way again, but wow, do heavy gauss make a dent.
the one time i used the -F7, i failed the PSR on the third shot (all misses), fell on my back, breached the right rear torso, and critted the gauss. the pilot spectacularly failed the eject roll and became a pancake ;D
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the one time i used the -F7, i failed the PSR on the third shot (all misses), fell on my back, breached the right rear torso, and critted the gauss. the pilot spectacularly failed the eject roll and became a pancake ;D
Does that count as "a 'Mech that surprised you"?
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Does that count as "a 'Mech that surprised you"?
I forgot I had to round up for falling damage until I rolled 6 on the fall damage and everyone started roaring with laughter. So yeah, that was a surprise
also sometimes you have traumatic flasbacks and just have to talk them out
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It's one of the few truly self-disposing battlemechs in existence.
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I got it behind a hill and in heavy forest. Everything missed it, and it killed a thor and uller.
Like I said, I don't expect it to happen again. and it's a mech that could really do with some optimization.
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Optimization in that case just means not putting an HGR on such a small mech. Which is what the other variant of Hollander II already does.
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Rifleman 3N
I know everybody makes fun of it, but holy crap those things are nasty if you use them correctly. I've been the victim of many a computer opponent when I end up giving the other side a stock Rifleman. Then suddenly I'm taking craptons of damage because I focused on somebody else. The mech has problems with heat dissipation and with thin armor, but that's much less of an issue when it's in a group.
In a one on one fight, the Rifleman is at a disadvantage. It can't use much of its firepower without really hurting itself with heat, and it can't survive much in the way of real damage. But in a lance vs lance fight, suddenly our old friend becomes very powerful. Give your opponent some dangerous targets and watch as your Rifleman never gets shot at. Say you have a Hunchback, an Enforcer, and an Archer. Your Rifleman is now the least important target on the field, according to conventional wisdom. Park him in woods and he'll provide reliable firepower (Large Laser + ACs). And it will continue to do that every round, until you make a mistake and give him very easy to hit rolls. You're trying to keep that Hunchback's AC-20 away, you only move for a +1, and now you're getting 2 Large Lasers, 2 Mediums, and 2 AC-5s hitting on 5s.
It hits really freakin' hard for a 3025 mech, and it's fairly cheap.
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The Rifleman can certainly deal damage way more than one might guess. Its life may be brief but it may well be glorious.
Honestly, the Rifleman IIC didn't ever really capture that insanity, functioning very differently.
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Rifleman
I always seem to get a lot of kills when playing one of these. People underestimate this mech a lot and ignore it untill its to late or they think its an easy kill, jump their light mech behind its back, usually just hit the legs or arms and then get wrecked by to AK5's and two large lasers. I always seem to roll extremely good when shooting backwards. :-D
Shadowhawk
I like to play this mech for fun and it tends to really rack up the kills at the end of long fights, when everybodies armor is gone. I'm also fond of death from above attacks with this mech (especially on mechs with their back against a water hex).
Quickdraw
I absolutely loathe this mech, yet I seem to have a godgiven talent for playing it. Which makes me hate it even more. :-D
Withworth
Why do people call it the "worthless"? That thing is awesome. Very good light fire support unit and its 3 ML are usually enough to keep any light mechs away that get close.
Urbanmech
I once played in a city campaign in Liao Space, with a lot of tanks and infantry. Our unit was a not so well equiped second line militia and most mechs we encountered were light and medium (<45 tons). Our Urbies were killers under these circumstances. The only thing that they struggled with were Hetzers, but for that we had a Charger. I think I never had more fun playing battletech than during that campaign.
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Withworth
Why do people call it the "worthless"? That thing is awesome. Very good light fire support unit and its 3 ML are usually enough to keep any light mechs away that get close.
Nobody out of universe calls the Whitworth worthless unless they're operating in a time period where any introtech mech is worthless.
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Yeah, that's a strictly in-universe reputation, like the BJ-1's.
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Pouncer, most configs. A not particularly fast or heavily armed 40 tonner, but those things put a beating on a number of IS heavy and assaults in my games. Great as long as the armor lasts.
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The most surprising positive performance for a mech I ever had was the -1R Vindicator. I was expecting so little. I managed to take a hilltop with it and become a hazard to a disturbingly large % of the map. A PPC and thunder ammo are fun.
Best surprising performance out of anything was watching a Hetzer loaded with 1 ton flechette, 1 ton precision, and 2 tons normal ammo consistently wipe out infantry and most light mechs in right after fight.
Most surprising negative performance is the old school AC20 hunchback. I’ve watched it be a monster in every game that I’ve faced it in. I have had the dice gods murder every last one I ever fielded. Including (in a single turn) having the first slip, crash into a building, and get knocked out, the second miss a 4+ to hit, and the third blow it’s own torso off because it rolled a 2 and we used the optional rapid fire rule for regular ACs.
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Two of them:
1) Awesome-9Q.
I came from HBSTech most recently and in that game, PPCs absolutely paled in comparison to almost all other weapons so the Awesome was decidedly sub-par. But PPCs proved to be a lot more viable on the TT so the first time I fielded an Awesome, it absolutely slaughtered half the lance arrayed against it, taking essentially zero damage in the process. The thing is a walking monster when paired with a good gunner in the cockpit, straight up area-denial.
2) Thunderbolt-5SS
A similar deal with the above, except my expectations were informed by playing MW2 and other games that allowed custom fits in a competitive environment. In most cases, you actively want to boat weapons unless absolutely forced not to by mechanics and you always want to build with the idea that resource-management in a fight is as easy as possible. But on the TT, you can't as readily dictate range and wipe people flat-out before they can approach the way you could in MW2. So the Thunderbolt-5SS having such a perfect arrangement of weapons so that you can fire all the energy weapons for zero heat or use everything except the PPC for leftover sinkage, it suddenly made a lot more sense. PPC for range, a battery of MLas for consistent damage, an SRM for crit-seeking, flamer for anti-infantry purposes, etc. It is just a very, very good mech.
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Most surprising negative performance is the old school AC20 hunchback. I’ve watched it be a monster in every game that I’ve faced it in. I have had the dice gods murder every last one I ever fielded. Including (in a single turn) having the first slip, crash into a building, and get knocked out, the second miss a 4+ to hit, and the third blow it’s own torso off because it rolled a 2 and we used the optional rapid fire rule for regular ACs.
Buddy of mine had the same problem with his HBK-5S, the LBX *rarely* hits, even fired in cluster. Two games in a row, the darn thing lost it's head. Kicked off in one mission; repaired, pilot replaced. Gaussed in the second. I swear the darn thing is cursed.
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I like to bring on 'cursed' mechs . . . was it a House unit, noble guard or merc? Did the unit name the mech? Anything else compound the tragedy of the deaths?
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Ostol. Seriously, I thought it was a piece of junk until I fielded one in a campaign game a few years back. heavy, 5/8 movement curve, heat issues but not terribly bad. Oh btw all weapons in torso? Freaking monster in a fight where terrain matters. (not standard battletech map)
Loki/ hell bringer prime. Who the hell thought this was a good idea? Then I actually played a game with a stock loki prime. The ECM, and AMS where an interesting defensive combo, plus Screw your C3. Active probe was also worth it weight if your doing more than mech duels. (came in handy during a scenario using hidden unit rules)
stinger M. I used to HATE stingers. Until I got this version. AMS, Flamer, medium laser? Great against ambushing infantry or elemental s.
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I like to bring on 'cursed' mechs . . . was it a House unit, noble guard or merc? Did the unit name the mech? Anything else compound the tragedy of the deaths?
If it was a GMed campaign, rather than Total Chaos, I'd consider assigning the Bad Reputation quirk to the 'Mech considering that before they got their head kicked off, the pilot was wounded in both previous battles as well. And nothing really compounded the tragedy of the deaths, except that none of his pilots have names. Maybe that's the problem. Heh.
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Nameless pilots are mooks. And mooks die ignominously in any system you play.
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The Ryoken/Stormcrow. Its a hugely popular 'mech that looks good on paper. The bar is set pretty high to start with. But you go in expecting "I can take a Warhammer", not "That's one lance down, now what?"
Second place, the Watchman. Its so basic in the midst of the new tech of 3055 that it feels dead on arrival. But the good weapon selection and full armor make it much more useful than it appears at first glance. The choice of a Large Laser instead of a PPC keeps heat manageable so that you can shoot and jump, and an Alpha Strike only puts you at 2+ movement. The Armor is also higher than why I expect from a 40-tonner that would normally rely on speed for protection. Its a much better performer than I expected when I grabbed a cheap medium to fill out a lance.
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During a bit of RP over a contract and search for a new heavy to slot in for a new lance of rebuilt salvage and owner/operator mech I was told about a Warhammer 7M that a unit sold off after it killed three pilots in three battles in a row. The mercs considered it jinxed and they could not find anyone that wanted to pilot it, so it was sold off to buy a un-tainted mech to replace it.
But yeah- widowmaker, walking coffin, or other such connotations could definitely be applied to some mechs per the fluff.
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Second place, the Watchman. Its so basic in the midst of the new tech of 3055 that it feels dead on arrival. But the good weapon selection and full armor make it much more useful than it appears at first glance. The choice of a Large Laser instead of a PPC keeps heat manageable so that you can shoot and jump, and an Alpha Strike only puts you at 2+ movement. The Armor is also higher than why I expect from a 40-tonner that would normally rely on speed for protection. Its a much better performer than I expected when I grabbed a cheap medium to fill out a lance.
Yeah, it's a pretty solid 'Mech. It's never won me games, but it's a good solid workhorse that holds the line for me pretty well for its size.
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The Commando 2Dr
And first glance a weak and uninspiring upgrade to the classic introtech Commando. In reality and really cheap and flexible light support unit.
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I always name my pilots. It's a quirk, I guess. Now, some of them may not be the most imaginative names, but everyone in a 'Mech gets a name.
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Heheh, one of my favorite for playing MegaMek servers was to name a pilot Shoo Tat'me. Only a few people ever got it.
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I always name my pilots. It's a quirk, I guess. Now, some of them may not be the most imaginative names, but everyone in a 'Mech gets a name.
Absolutely. All of my pilots in my own Merc force for TC are named. I even have two of them starting a burgeoning relationship. One of the others has kind of a voice when I think about her - actually one of the HBS voice actors for the Mechwarriors is really close to what I was envisioning for her. And I am really disappointed that "Piggy" Hamm in his Thunderbolt "Razorback" (Bog standard 5SE, but darn it, I can name it anyways!) got captured by the Robes. I *might* consider staging a "rescue" mission for him as one of the generic tracks - if I can find one that is appropriate. Of course, it would be a rescue in name only. I'd still pay to hire a new 'Mechwarrior, just be an appropriate excuse for why it was him.
But that's not why we are here.
MAD-5W Marauder II. On paper, the firepower feels very anemic for a 100 ton 'Mech. But wow. Wow was it tanky. I think my opponent hit every point of armor that sucker had. It just *would not die*.
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the imagined voices of all of my pilots in a campaign are Gunman from Mechcommander 1
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What, no love for Rooster?
Why they picked that character to move on into MC2 made no sense.
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the imagined voices of all of my pilots in a campaign are Gunman from Mechcommander 1
Hitman would have been my first choice. :thumbsup:
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Loki/ hell bringer prime. Who the hell thought this was a good idea? Then I actually played a game with a stock loki prime. The ECM, and AMS where an interesting defensive combo, plus Screw your C3. Active probe was also worth it weight if your doing more than mech duels. (came in handy during a scenario using hidden unit rules)
I agree with multiple mentions of Loki. Aside from variety of weapons:
- mediums and streak srm for vehicles,
- machine guns for infantry,
- ppcs and tarcomp for sniping enemy Mech,
if the terrain is mostly open, it can easily run 7-8 hexes with good defensive bonus and outmaneuver most opponents. And with it's rarity on the board, my opponents tend to forgot about the ECM and AMS on it, which are annoying as hell.
It's a good Battlemech for a smart Clanner.
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I always name my pilots. It's a quirk, I guess. Now, some of them may not be the most imaginative names, but everyone in a 'Mech gets a name.
Me too. Usually it's just a call sign if it's a pick up game; I use online random fantasy/sci-fi name generators for that. 😁
But for the Companies I'm planning out (4 currently) I name, age, call sign (not random), and nation of origin, for each mechwarrior at least. For my Lance and Company commanders, I write up a brief 1-3 paragraph bio as well...
I also track pilot injury and deaths, even for just pick-up non campaign games. I have a Longbow that has lost its mechwarrior in battle 3 times so far, the mech is named "Loaner" now...
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For me it is the Dervish which in fluff seems to be looked down upon but seeing it in action it seems very effective.
The Dervish is one of my very favorite medium 'mechs; use up your LRMs from a distance, then jump, backstab, and repeat.
One of the big surprises for me was the Charger. For years I just saw those pitiful SLs and weak armor and ignored it, but then I tried the beast: it's a nearly-unkillable kicking machine. The side torsos and arms are nothing but damage sponges; the real purpose of this 'mech is to not stop kicking until the enemy mech drops with a sheared-off leg. I've had a Charger that lost both its arms and a side torso take on a pristine Annihilator head-on and win easily.
In a reverse surprise...the Thunderbolt. On paper it's a good 'mech. People swear by it in actual play. I get creamed when I use it. :-[
That's me with the Fafnir - I've never once used one and had it not kill itself through stupid failed PSRs, even worse than my normal abysmal dice rolls.