ilClan speculations and ideas 20 years in ?

[Cannonshop]

I think it's worth noting the great houses all pre-date the HPG network, by centuries, so they all have the consisutional tools to deal with the HPG outage (it's ALSO worth noting the inner sphere faction that died as a result of the dark age was one of the few eistablished post HPG network)  So I'm not sure the HPG net being down is as game changing as canonshop thinks. In fact I'd argue that the clans should suffer more with HPG net disruptions given this makes it MUCH harder to bring a clan council forward.

the reason I oppose the idea of balkinization is, I think CGL is being more creative then just to repeat the same trick endlessly. if we look at each of the various post ilclan books, (TR, EA and DD) each create a reasonably dynamic front, that has possiabilities for small player units to feel like they have room to contribute. TR of course gives us the Hinterlands, aka Chaos march 2.0. EA gives us basicly a feeding freezy of FLW subfactions battling it out over the corpse of the wolf empire. and DD gives us the DC/FS front where both sides have in an effort to preserve their dramaticly weakened and exhuasted militaries have been granting mercs generous landholds for service. All of these acheive similer results an enviroment where small merc units (like a player might have) can make a differance. without just copy pasting the same thing. it creates a more intreasting dynmic.

Brian, the united states existed before the telegraph, does that mean that we've got the infrastructure to deal with it if the telecom network went down, just because our distant ancestors did??

The methods are an historical fact, right? so you should be able to have a morse-semaphore internet in a few hours, right??  NO.  It doesn't work that way.

Work people haven't done, (an entire INDUSTRY people haven't been doing) for centuries doesn't suddenly get mastered in a couple years.

If everything that uses electricity failed, you're not going to suddenly know how to run a team of horses, even if your distant ancestors did, and even if the horses are, in fact, available, and not a rarity so rare only a few dedicated specialists know how to feed them the right things, never mind something like suddenly having enough jumpships to maintain all the high-speed communications you need to keep not only your government running, but your economy and currency running.

People did that in the distant past, but those skills, the infrastructure to do it?  is in the distant past.  There's a REASON that Hanse Davion's command circuits were expensive enough to damage the Fedsuns Economy-and it wasnt' because he was suddenly mass-producing message packet ships...because in 3025 almost nobody remembered how to MAKE THEM, and they were rare...and that was WITH far more shipyards than the Jihad left behind (and weren't rebuilt.)

The real world equivalent would be if you had to participate in a 'forum' via USPS or other subcontractors at THAT delivery speed, or trying to run a business configured for 5G connectivity without a cell network or Internet because it's down nationwide, and the phones don't even work.   just getting the infra in place to manage THAT is going to take enough time for your subsidiaries or your subordinate governors to have to manage without you, and without your funding for a while.  (because there's really no way to get the millions of [currencies] moved from buyer to seller, or from exchequer to buyer, except by hand carrying it-even if the format is digital instead of paper.)

do you know what happens when soldiers don't get their pay?  when Quartermasters don't get their Budget?  How about on-site administrators, or subcontractors? how many potholes is a paving contractor going to fill for free? how many pounds of food is a farmer going to donate when he can't buy seed?

What happens to your mortgage if you can't get the payments to the bank on Atreus because you're on Wilson?  What do you think is going to happen to the rule of law, when it takes weeks to get a distress call to the March Militia, instead of hours?

for that matter, how are you going to pay the soldiers?

No, it's amazing that ANY of the large states managed to remain AS intact as they have-even without the added chaos of invasions and raiding.

[Church14]

I think it's worth noting the great houses all pre-date the HPG network, by centuries, so they all have the consisutional tools to deal with the HPG outage (it's ALSO worth noting the inner sphere faction that died as a result of the dark age was one of the few eistablished post HPG network)  So I'm not sure the HPG net being down is as game changing as canonshop thinks. In fact I'd argue that the clans should suffer more with HPG net disruptions given this makes it MUCH harder to bring a clan council forward.

the reason I oppose the idea of balkinization is, I think CGL is being more creative then just to repeat the same trick endlessly. if we look at each of the various post ilclan books, (TR, EA and DD) each create a reasonably dynamic front, that has possiabilities for small player units to feel like they have room to contribute. TR of course gives us the Hinterlands, aka Chaos march 2.0. EA gives us basicly a feeding freezy of FLW subfactions battling it out over the corpse of the wolf empire. and DD gives us the DC/FS front where both sides have in an effort to preserve their dramaticly weakened and exhuasted militaries have been granting mercs generous landholds for service. All of these acheive similer results an enviroment where small merc units (like a player might have) can make a differance. without just copy pasting the same thing. it creates a more intreasting dynmic.

Worth mentioning that the faction that died didn’t actually die because of the HPG network going down. They only took initial losses from it. From what I understand, Terra has a working HPG, so the republic actually had coordination inside prefecture X. They died - in universe - because prefecture X lacks the resources to fight a multi-front war and none of their three aggressors could be reasoned with.

Adding to the point: it’s not that EA, DD, and TR create small unit friendly environments. Each gives us a different style of playground.
- The FedSuns-Combine border is now old school, third succession war era raids and counter raids by small units
- RasDom vs DC gives us hints of the old clan invasion. Luthien on the edge of a threat from an invading clan.
- Hinterlands is now a “build a nation” or a just a Wild West vibe by the setting standards. A reasonable sized area of unclaimed land to do anything.
- EA gives us a lot. Anduriens, Magistracy, and the Marians all have low scale conflicts to do something with.
- The wolf empire parts give us opportunities to play as an IS house or as mercs as part of an offensive against a clan.

So, 20 years out is too far, but in the next three years of lore, what kind of playground can iKEO give us? If I had to guess, the one missing playground is everyone can fight everyone. DC, CC, Wolf, the green wolves, the gray wolves, mercenaries, the last gasps of the Republic, Galatea, Skye, RasDom, FWL all could have a finger in the pot.

[Cannonshop]

Hinterlands is more of a buffet selection to make a given faction look tougher and more interesting before they get squished.  Think Tikonov Free Republic, not St. Ives Compact-a 'state' that exists to be conquered by a faction-that-matters either as a means to show that faction is getting tougher/stronger, or to provide a sort-of rallying cry for opposition from another major faction.

Basically to act as filler before Alaric goes forth on his reconquista.

This is also why they're letting Nikol Marik's free worlds have a few temporary wins-because the FWL largely doesn't matter but Alaric needs credible opponents to crush easily, since dramatic timing doesn't favor letting him crush Daoshen too soon.

People may be predicting Da Bears are going to get stung at Luthien, and they might-the more important part, is to bleed the DCMS so they're not a factor in international conflict, but not so much that the Combine becomes part of the Duke of Robinson's holdings.

at least, not in any great amount.  Same for staging the conflict between Erik and Julian-the FedSuns are being kept out of the main action for the time being in case a sideshow is needed to buy in-story time for Alaric to consolidate and turn all the ex-Republic people into loyal servants.  (Battletech's "Sheeple" principle is completely in play here)

Sterling McKenna really doesn't have much to do, maybe finish wiping out the Fedsuns fleet?  That's worth..what, half a stage in one engagement?  The Snow Ravens are window dressing. They don't hae anything to do with their key signature units, and they can't replace those units (or largely, even repair them) if they get damaged or destroyed.

Basically a non-factor beyond being Alaric's current side-piece.  there's really no room for anything of a naval nature, nobody has a fleet worth the term to challenge them, and it's not really a matter of conflict generation, since there's nothing to contest, and Snow Raven's 'seat of power' is so far out of the way that it's effectively immune to threat, while being so impoverished and underdeveloped as to be unable to serve as a logistical base for an alliance.

Basically, unimportant except as window dressing because they didn't kill the faction off earlier.

and then, there's Trillian...who can't really do anything coherent either, her nation's already doing a FWL style fracturing, though with less functional industrial base, economy, or internal ties that would hold it together or facilitate a win.  The Lyrans really aren't Germany, they're Poland-everyone's battleground.

The Horses are a joke-they're basically there to be an easy fight when Alaric comes out of his corner, but they're probably going to get more of the Lyran fragments than anyone else who's going for them just upon the basis of needing them to be close enough for the ilClan to sally forth and squish them like bugs on a windshield.

Or, they'll be largely irrelevant and a speedbump for the Homeworld Clans coming to kill everybody so that Alaric's Wolves can look like big damn heroes for stopping them.

I base this on what we've got, what we know from published materials, and from the basic narrative tropes already in play (not "Teevee Tropes" or Website tropes, but narrative ones that Battletech tends to follow, even when the writing is bad.)

[BrianDavion]

Worth mentioning that the faction that died didn’t actually die because of the HPG network going down. They only took initial losses from it. From what I understand, Terra has a working HPG, so the republic actually had coordination inside prefecture X. They died - in universe - because prefecture X lacks the resources to fight a multi-front war and none of their three aggressors could be reasoned with.

Adding to the point: it’s not that EA, DD, and TR create small unit friendly environments. Each gives us a different style of playground.
- The FedSuns-Combine border is now old school, third succession war era raids and counter raids by small units
- RasDom vs DC gives us hints of the old clan invasion. Luthien on the edge of a threat from an invading clan.
- Hinterlands is now a “build a nation” or a just a Wild West vibe by the setting standards. A reasonable sized area of unclaimed land to do anything.
- EA gives us a lot. Anduriens, Magistracy, and the Marians all have low scale conflicts to do something with.
- The wolf empire parts give us opportunities to play as an IS house or as mercs as part of an offensive against a clan.

So, 20 years out is too far, but in the next three years of lore, what kind of playground can iKEO give us? If I had to guess, the one missing playground is everyone can fight everyone. DC, CC, Wolf, the green wolves, the gray wolves, mercenaries, the last gasps of the Republic, Galatea, Skye, RasDom, FWL all could have a finger in the pot.

that's a good point church, and the terran corridor is a noted place where all the great houses come together, all 5 houses, the wolves, the falcons, the jags, the bears, they ALL have a presence near Terra, so a free for all enviroment in Terra def makes some sense.

[Wrangler]

For each collapse of a nation or movement(?) Chaos like march forms.  This maybe the way for the future...but I can't see that as a steady thing if HPGs are restored fully by the Sea Foxes.

I guess the Hinderlands is similar to the Capellan Zone (pre-Confederation, bunch small micro-states) was like that If I'm not mistaken. However, they don't have as much in way as resources as the Zone did.

[Geg]

Alaric getting merked now would be the copout of all copouts. We have a once okay character turned into garbage character who just declared himself god-king from atop a heap of the most blatant plot armor in the setting. It would be incredibly unsatisfying to see him get to die while he’s on top.

It may not be what you want to see, but the arc of a larger than life anti-hero brought low by their own actions, forcing others to pick up the pieces is perhaps one of the oldest story lines in western literature. The entire genre of tragedy is based on the hero/protagonist reaching new heights on power and glory, before getting struck down for their hubris (Ex:  Medea, Bellerophon, Oresteia, and Shakespeare's Julius Caesar).

[BrianDavion]

It may not be what you want to see, but the arc of a larger than life anti-hero brought low by their own actions, forcing others to pick up the pieces is perhaps one of the oldest story lines in western literature. The entire genre of tragedy is based on the hero/protagonist reaching new heights on power and glory, before getting struck down for their hubris (Ex:  Medea, Bellerophon, Oresteia, and Shakespeare's Julius Caesar).

or even Icarus, who got too close to the sun and was destroyed as a result

[VensersRevenge]

It may not be what you want to see, but the arc of a larger than life anti-hero brought low by their own actions, forcing others to pick up the pieces is perhaps one of the oldest story lines in western literature. The entire genre of tragedy is based on the hero/protagonist reaching new heights on power and glory, before getting struck down for their hubris (Ex:  Medea, Bellerophon, Oresteia, and Shakespeare's Julius Caesar).

Yeah, but most of them have a gap between reaching the top of the mountain and failing do to hubris. Alaric dying in IKEO, or even in the next sourcebook chronologically after that, would be too early for his hubris to truly be what destroys him in my opinion.

[Metallgewitter]

Yeah, but most of them have a gap between reaching the top of the mountain and failing do to hubris. Alaric dying in IKEO, or even in the next sourcebook chronologically after that, would be too early for his hubris to truly be what destroys him in my opinion.

Yeah I agree. But I also get the feeling that the next years should in theory be more like a mindless grind of the remaining Wolves against the Capellans. The Wolves allies are busy doing other stuff (taing planets from the Suns or riding headlong into a war with the Combine) while some realsm try to put themselves back together or swallow helpless neighbours. I for one hope the Commonwealth gets it's act together and take at least some important planets back. Hell the way the Lyrans are described in Gray Death Rising had me screaming internally "are you serious!!" Roderick has his work cut out for him

[JAMES_PRYDE]

So, on that plot hero/protagonist script, Alaric "having another 5 years of life left" so to speak realistic ?, or more ?

As original point I made about Alaric, after (hubris finally befalls him) what could ilClan look like with a newer, more in touch leader, and a bit more stable and integrated League, to then carry on with the Era, again involving around the "Inner" Inner Sphere

Would also be an interesting story arc, that first to us as the audience in "Alaric's secret brooding logs", or conversations between him and his second, of his feelings/shame/embarrassment of how he has repressed what Stone told him in his "dying" breath, how he "let" him have King of the Hill, which is keeping him up at night so to speak, IF that was to get out, with his genetics secret, a political arc into his end ?

[Geg]

My money is on a combo of his genetics and his ego.   Something like the truth about about his parents gets out, it's bad but manageable, he imagines what his mother would tell him to do, but he killed her, so he does something different, and falls.

[Church14]

It may not be what you want to see, but the arc of a larger than life anti-hero brought low by their own actions, forcing others to pick up the pieces is perhaps one of the oldest story lines in western literature. The entire genre of tragedy is based on the hero/protagonist reaching new heights on power and glory, before getting struck down for their hubris (Ex:  Medea, Bellerophon, Oresteia, and Shakespeare's Julius Caesar).

I think we are saying the same thing from different angles. I don’t want a copout “he’s wildly unpopular so we offed him” from CGL. I want Alaric the Greek tragedy. Which, the basic steps are

1) show character with traits unlike any other character.
2) show that character use said traits to achieve their dream.
3) those same traits that drove them to the top now become a liability
4) the character must be warned to temper those traits, to adjust
5) those traits, once ‘virtues,’ are now the vices that lead to their downfall.

Alaric just finished step 2. His traits unlike any other?
- He’s an extraordinary general who inspires his people by leading from the front.
- He’s willing to sacrifice or abandon anyone to achieve his dreams. (Wolf OZ, the entire Empire)
- The formation of the ilclan has been his unique vision. No other’s. He’s never compromised on that.

So whatever his downfall is, those traits need to be the problem. Like has been said, this is the ilclan era and Alaric is currently the ilclan. His rise, peak, and downfall should guide the era.

My guess? He leaves Terra to oversee critical battles himself. He stays on the front instead of staying on Terra and actually leading. The actual leadership of the ilclan and league falls on someone else. Probably Chance Vickers since she isn’t an actual character yet and they have freedom to shape her into the disillusioned zealot as she keeps getting all the things Alaric finds ‘beneath’ him dumped on her. Alaric’s few visits involve him declaring “no, you will do it this way” and disrupting whatever fragile balance between Terra, ilclan, foxes, and ravens Chance was establishing. Add in that we’ve never seen Alaric engage in politics when he wasn’t in a position of overwhelming strength and he’s never built a coalition.

I wondered about Kalidessa Kerensky instead of Chance, but her entire ‘character’ is “the do or die Colonel of 2nd wolf assault.” Since 2nd wolf assault was some forgettable unit until HotW tried to force a new Widowmaker cluster, they are expendable narratively. Sacrificing them might be the line crossed to start the real plummet.

So, on that plot hero/protagonist script, Alaric "having another 5 years of life left" so to speak realistic ?, or more ?

As original point I made about Alaric, after (hubris finally befalls him) what could ilClan look like with a newer, more in touch leader, and a bit more stable and integrated League, to then carry on with the Era, again involving around the "Inner" Inner Sphere

Would also be an interesting story arc, that first to us as the audience in "Alaric's secret brooding logs", or conversations between him and his second, of his feelings/shame/embarrassment of how he has repressed what Stone told him in his "dying" breath, how he "let" him have King of the Hill, which is keeping him up at night so to speak, IF that was to get out, with his genetics secret, a political arc into his end ?

Five years in universe seems about reasonable. It could be a little shorter, but bare minimum has to be like… 3. The euphoria and novelty of being the ilclan has to wear off and they need to be able to start taking pragmatic stock of their leaders and situation.

And just protagonist. Alaric was never a hero

[Geg]

I wondered about Kalidessa Kerensky instead of Chance, but her entire ‘character’ is “the do or die Colonel of 2nd wolf assault.” Since 2nd wolf assault was some forgettable unit until HotW tried to force a new Widowmaker cluster, they are expendable narratively. Sacrificing them might be the line crossed to start the real plummet.

Per several podcasts, Kalidessa was created as someone to follow throughout the invasion of Terra.   Early drafts had different vingetts of fighting all over the planet, but those were transformed to a single commander and a couple of tankers.   While she may get an interesting future, at the time of writing she was not a integral part of the plot.

And just protagonist. Alaric was never a hero

If we are framing things like a Greek tragedy, Hero just means someone who is larger than life.  Probably descended from a god, or in BTs sense a dude like Vlad Ward.

[ColBosch]

If we are framing things like a Greek tragedy, Hero just means someone who is larger than life.  Probably descended from a god, or in BTs sense a dude like Vlad Ward.

Alaric is a Classical big-h Hero by altogether too many metrics, some BattleTech-specific:

• Heir to two kingdoms, rules a third
• Became king (Khan) by his own hand
• Product of...shall we say, familial relations
• Raised by Wolves
• Mother was a villainous usurper
• Father was a "great" king
• Hell, his entire family line have been major rulers
• Conquered Rome (and the rest of Terra)
• Not born of woman
• Bred for War
• Defeated a terrible monster (Malvina Hazen)
• Reestablished the Star League
• Finally defeated the Jade Falcons
• Oh yeah, the whole ilClan thing
• Et multiple cetera

Love him or hate him, you can't say that authors didn't do their homework on the guy.

[Metallgewitter]

You could add:

- Like Amaris gave up on his "home country" to get what he wants
- used foul tricks to win
- like amaris betrayed his erstwhile allies (in this case the Dragoons)
- plot armor (just like Malvina had)

[BrianDavion]

Alaric is a Classical big-h Hero by altogether too many metrics, some BattleTech-specific:

• Heir to two kingdoms, rules a third
• Became king (Khan) by his own hand
• Product of...shall we say, familial relations
• Raised by Wolves
• Mother was a villainous usurper
• Father was a "great" king
• Hell, his entire family line have been major rulers
• Conquered Rome (and the rest of Terra)
• Not born of woman
• Bred for War
• Defeated a terrible monster (Malvina Hazen)
• Reestablished the Star League
• Finally defeated the Jade Falcons
• Oh yeah, the whole ilClan thing
• Et multiple cetera

Love him or hate him, you can't say that authors didn't do their homework on the guy.

actually, reading that list he's got an aweful lot in common with Mordred.

[Cannonshop]

actually, reading that list he's got an aweful lot in common with Mordred.

Nah, see, Mordred had decent characterization and reasonable motives, given he was the result of magic-induced date rape, was the only living scion of Arthur, and had a legit claim on the throne after Arthur took his Knights off to look for a magic cup (leaving Camelot essentially unattended, undefended, and ungoverned for a couple decades.)

He's an allegory for "You can't just shirk your duties if you're the king".  Alaric has none of that.

What he's got, is a predictable arc, in part because he has no character to his Character-that is, no sympathetic traits beyond being powerful and, up to this point, blessed by the gods with power.

So here's how it's going to go down;

Alaric will go nuts.  slowly, probably, but nuts.

Alric will then turn EEEVULLL.  four color cartoon evil, not bond villain evil, but more like 'axis in a fifties film from Universal' evil.  Snidely  Whiplash-basically Malvina's starting point.

Alaric will go incompetent-the gods will stop thumbing the dice, and he'll lose where he used to win, and this will be where it is when the designated Hero^tm  Takes him Down in an "Epic Battle".

or Klingon Promotion, if they want to finish crossing the Wolves from "White hat faction" to "Badguy Faction".

Most likely cause of Alaric's demise will either be Roderick, or Julian-because nobody's going to believe Yori or Nikol, and Daoshen is currently in the comic-book-baddie-seat (aka filling the Mook Miniboss to let your unsympathetic Protagonist have a big enough win to look unstoppable.)

Hopefully, they'll actually give his replacement some consistent character development (humour, personality quirks beyond "ruthless megalomania crossed with gods blessed superwarrior status", and personal relationships beyond 'people he's using for the moment because they're dumb enough to like him'-you know, traits that actually inspire loyalty and demonstrate leadership...) so he's replaced by someone actually interesting, rather than a cardboard warlord with awesome hair.

Harsh, huh?  see, the unlikeable protagonist only works if they've got something about them, not an informed ability, but something delivered in the character themselves, that is actually engaging and likeable.  For example, Caiphas Cain from WH40K's novels, the guy is a scumbag and a coward, but he's INTERESTING and his successes (blundered into though they may be) are therefore earned-his abilities are not merely informed in a block of text with no demonstration of WHY he's credited by the narrator with them.  Flashman? same thing.  any number of 'Villain' books out there, also recognize this.

Alaric ain't got it.    He's essentially a standup that's been put in the Protagonist spot, but..why??

He's got a kinky set of background stats, but he's about as exciting as mayonnaise on white bread, lukewarm, served with tap water.

Going crazy is probably the best thing that can happen to the character in terms of making him engaging enough to fill the role he's been shoehorned into.

[Minemech]

 I am not a fan of people descending into madness, even in Alaric's case. It would be better for him to ultimately be a victim of his own hubris. Him falling on Terra to Daoshen would not be terrible. It does not make Daoshen a good guy anymore than it makes Alaric sympathetic.

[Cannonshop]

I am not a fan of people descending into madness, even in Alaric's case. It would be better for him to ultimately be a victim of his own hubris. Him falling on Terra to Daoshen would not be terrible. It does not make Daoshen a good guy anymore than it makes Alaric sympathetic.

I'm looking mainly at precedent.  they can't keep Alaric as The Protagonist past this particular storyline, and looking back all the way to FASA days, there are 'marker points' you can count up to the destruction of everything from Merc units to National Leaders to whole factions, an established pattern, like a base narrative, and part of that narrative, is HOW they dismantle someone they've built up as a plot driver.

step 1: They go nuts, maybe a little, maybe a lot.
step 2: Evil, or rather, Cartoonish EVUL. 
Step 3: Incompetence and a final boss battle that is 'informed' or rather, not-very-formed, but thematic.

They primed step 1 with Stone's deathbed confession.

Step 2 is already in progress as well, violent reprisals against civilians have already occurred.

so we just really need to figure out whether Alaric's going to be replaced via Klingon Promotion after a string of minor failures, or which designated good guy is going to be the anointed to take him down (without changing too much of the staging). 

Daoshen is obviously not in the running.  He's slated to be the mid-series mook fight that motivates the coalition of heroes to go after Alaric instead of attending to their own interests. (which is ALSO a Battletech Trope and was part of the staging for Katherine, as well as Word of Blake).

my speculations are that Nikol is too weak
so is Sterling McKenna.
The Ghost Bears already weighed in as 'not going there'
Anasasia is crazy and somewhat LESS appealing than Alaric-for most of the same reasons.
The Falcons are out of the running unless something plot bending happens, same for the minor players in that balkanized mess that is the Lyrans.
Yori's got too many local issues, plus Ghost Bears making a mess on the doorstep.

That leaves us with Roddy, or Julian, because Erik's too localized and has already been staged as Julian's intermediate bout.

[Geg]

Can we maybe move the Alaric stuff to a different thread.   Other than to say, that in 20 years, he is almost definitely dead.  Odds are all of this is going to get resolved in the next 5 years of game time.

The state I am most curious about is the Commonwealth.   As they had a ruler change, what feels like most of their armed forces defect to form breakaway statelets.   They are probably "fine" as an entity for those 20 years, as all of their neighbors are somewhat distracted.  However, it feels like anyone who gets command of any sort of sizable military force is either going to make a play for the throne or make themselves king elsewhere.

[Church14]

Can we maybe move the Alaric stuff to a different thread.   Other than to say, that in 20 years, he is almost definitely dead.  Odds are all of this is going to get resolved in the next 5 years of game time.

The state I am most curious about is the Commonwealth.   As they had a ruler change, what feels like most of their armed forces defect to form breakaway statelets.   They are probably "fine" as an entity for those 20 years, as all of their neighbors are somewhat distracted.  However, it feels like anyone who gets command of any sort of sizable military force is either going to make a play for the throne or make themselves king elsewhere.

I’d like to move on from Alaric, but his fate and his actions drive the ilclan.

For Lyrans, I expect them to keep cold feet on hitting the Wolf Empire until it feels like the Empire’s collapse is inevitable. I would expect some general to pull the trigger with or without orders and they expand and reclaim some percentage of the Empire. Still short of their original borders. But still better. Their northern flank is plot armored with new factions that have new lore.

So really it’s just what happens to the east that I’m unsure about. The long stretch of abandoned Falcon OZ south of Tamar

[Decoy]

If we're looking at this as a parallel to the original Star League, isn't it a funny coincidence that Alaric is fighting Marik and Liao right now? The first two to join the Hegemony in the original Star League? Then we have Steiner, which needs some economic stabilization that the Sea Foxes might be willing to provide. Davion looks primed to have a slap fight behind the Triple F's on New Avalon and Kurita might turn inward for a while with the Von Rohrs Palmer dynasty and limit themselves to sparring with the Ghost Bears. Who knows? Maybe the Ghost Bears have some Brahes from the Wolves in Exile they can plop on the Combine throne.   Anyrate,through hook or crook, Alaric makes the Star League real and Anastasia channels her spirit animal, Starscream and shoots him. Anastasia then proceeds to get murder killed by Chance Vickers. New First Lord picks a target to turn the new SLDF against to unite the Inner Sphere.

[Metallgewitter]

Nah Tara Campbell will play the role of "never leave the Praetorians out of sight" role and depose of the mad king. After all Clan culture is still "might makes right" and I doubt we will loose said trait just because the Clans took Terra.

Also: Alaric has basically decalred war on everyone. This is not the Terran Hegemony parallel who just wanted peace so no war spilled into the Hegemony this is more of a Amaris parallel because "I am Emperor, kneel!"

[Cannonshop]

Can we maybe move the Alaric stuff to a different thread.   Other than to say, that in 20 years, he is almost definitely dead.  Odds are all of this is going to get resolved in the next 5 years of game time.

The state I am most curious about is the Commonwealth.   As they had a ruler change, what feels like most of their armed forces defect to form breakaway statelets.   They are probably "fine" as an entity for those 20 years, as all of their neighbors are somewhat distracted.  However, it feels like anyone who gets command of any sort of sizable military force is either going to make a play for the throne or make themselves king elsewhere.

The Lyrans as a whole have a long standing problem; They train excellent officers, they just don't manage to Keep them.  Instead those excellent officers go merc, or go off on their own, or defect to someone else, leaving a somewhat bloated and completely inept State Military behind.

The fracturing means we might actually see competent Lyran troops under a Lyran Flag for more than one campaign!!

I know, I know, I write that and even I find the idea hard to believe.

Especially given the conditions suggested with the Carlysle kid.

What's this got to do with the Clanner side of things?  Ahem..."Hell's Horses."

those lovely little statelets that just formed? they're right in the way of Clan Hell's Horses going in to get stomped by the Wolves-and the Horsies have a motive to go in and pick that fight-if they can just get enough bordering territory to make the play.

Which means, removing the Lyrans (and other statelets) in the way.

So the question for betting, is what are teh odds that the Lyrans will revert to type, unable to field a competent military so that the Horsies can get their losing bout with Clan Wolf's "Star League" versus we might actually get a few competent Lyran leaders under a Lyran Flag not sabotaged by their bloated bureaus of Social Generals?

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

Alaric is a villainous protagonist and the best thing that could happen to him now that he's gotten what he's wanted for decades is to realize what a millstone Terra actually is, and be overwhelmed because suddenly all of his options are Hobbesian choices.

Terra has absolutely zero reason to like Alaric, the Republic was their legitimate government for 80 years and they did alright by them, and Alaric is enough of a Clan supremist that he will probably start to enforce Clan rules on the population soon. Plus Terra's been living with the spectre of Clans coming for them for over 100 years, as Stone said. Plus you have all the Ghost Knights out there who will not make things easy for the IlClan.

Having Terra actually be rebellious under a ruler for once would make for a compelling narrative. Alaric can't do whatever he wants because his military is constantly restless dealing with trouble at home. I'm sure he'll expand and grow a small state while the Wolf Empire keeps shrinking.

[Metallgewitter]

Having Terra actually be rebellious under a ruler for once would make for a compelling narrative. Alaric can't do whatever he wants because his military is constantly restless dealing with trouble at home. I'm sure he'll expand and grow a small state while the Wolf Empire keeps shrinking.

Terra was rebellious when Amaris took over. He had to deal with a huge resistance for his entire reign even being almost killed at least once. The question will be how this will develop. I think as long the "Twitter troll campaign" keeps going (on a planet that is as interfaced as Terra that is very effective) there will always be unrest. Plus possible confrontation between former RAF members and those that switched to the wolves. We've had examples with the most extreme the bomb attack on that one Ghost knight who had blown up a Wolf supply dump during the IlClan trial. Heck who knows how secure the military production on Terra actually will be a few years in should the Wolves not quickly manage to keep Terrans in line

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

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Having Terra actually be rebellious under a ruler for once would make for a compelling narrative. Alaric can't do whatever he wants because his military is constantly restless dealing with trouble at home. I'm sure he'll expand and grow a small state while the Wolf Empire keeps shrinking.

The only time in-lore when Terra was rebellious was during Amaris reign and even old Stefan really had to put in the work to make it happen

I don't really see why they should suddenly develop rebellious streak out of the blue when they tolerated people like Blakists without any issues

Had Mongols won the planet then yeah, maybe it could happen but they didn't, the Wolves did

[Minemech]

 Why would they have issues with a Comstar sect (Well, a bunch of them claiming to be one)? They were used to Comstar rule.

[Metallgewitter]

Plus the Word of Blake actually gave Terrans something to do: bringing back planets of the old Hegemony back to the fold. So if we go this way Terrans might actually like Alaric as long as Terrans are allowed to participate

[Church14]

The only time in-lore when Terra was rebellious was during Amaris reign and even old Stefan really had to put in the work to make it happen

I don't really see why they should suddenly develop rebellious streak out of the blue when they tolerated people like Blakists without any issues

Had Mongols won the planet then yeah, maybe it could happen but they didn't, the Wolves did

Besides that the Wolves showed up, destroyed their nation, murdered their beloved leader in cold blood, intentionally murder civilians, invited the Falcons - known mass murderers, acted exactly like the boogeymen that centuries of indoctrination said they would be, promised to turn Terra into the opposite of republic ideals, and (I’m assuming) tried to institute a caste system on Terra?

It’s like if Japan defeated the USA in WW2, shot Truman months after the surrender, and then promised to invade England.

It’s more a question of why would Terra have any reason to like Alaric?