Author Topic: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition  (Read 198462 times)

Sartris

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1050 on: 28 November 2018, 01:20:00 »
i don't think it's going to happen enough to make that much of a difference. the number of new BT things funneled into CGL's production schedule means... one product a year? Two?

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Frabby

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1051 on: 28 November 2018, 01:46:59 »
I don't see the shoehorning aspect.
There is nothing in canon now that positively rules out the existence of an ailing minor periphery power in the Aurigan Reach. There's supposed to be 17 (iirc) minor near periphery powers that we haven't seen yet, because ComStar and the Inner Sphere didn't consider them noteworthy.

The HBS game exceeded the canon in how powerful the Coalition was - it's way more powerful than, say, the Illyrian Palatinate or Marian Hegemony, to say nothing of one-system periphery nations.
It remains to be seen how the power level is adapted. Or how diverging system descriptions are reconciled. If the game canon is downplayed a little, it can still fit CGL canon without retroactively changes to established canon (as opposed to backfilling what was previously a blank slate).
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1052 on: 28 November 2018, 06:55:45 »
Do recall that people (employees, freelancers, volunteers) who have worked on fine details like faction borders, maps, and fine logistics details in keeping the game's canon together worked hard to maintain consistency. Most of them I can recall are excited about this. So yes, there is some shoehorning. But connecting widely experienced video game fiction with the canon is so worth it. Even if it means a few planets get moved from column A to column B. That's a perfectly acceptable sacrifice (and honestly still far and away a higher standard of accuracy than FASA ever met).
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1053 on: 28 November 2018, 07:15:44 »
I wonder the stats for the Argo would be included. That would be neat. One can hope.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1054 on: 28 November 2018, 08:33:51 »
I have to admit that I'm surprised to see pushback to this.  We've been told for years that the Periphery is full of minor powers that haven't been discussed in detail so including the Aurigans is a minimal change at best.  We don't even know if they will survive into the future, which seems doubtful given Ray's comment about the 4th Succession War. 

This is certainly a much smaller change to the game than the introduction of new technology. 
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1055 on: 28 November 2018, 09:15:37 »
Exactly, and it's why I suggest people look up things like:

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/10-countries-you-ve-probably-never-heard-of.html

and

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/05/18/23-countries-that-no-longer-exist-and-the-history-behind-them/

Seriously, do a Google Search for these, read some articles, and THEN come back here and start going off about this 'Minor' Periphery power could not have existed and there was no mention of it before.

As an example I've stated before, Ask any Canadian under the age of 60 if they knew about the Country of Newfoundland? I'm Canadian (age 51), and as I've stated before knew Newfoundland was the last province to join Canada (in 1949) after World War 2, but it never occurred to me that it was ACTUALLY a country.

Or a more modern Example. The Island Nation of Niue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue

While the citizens are granted New Zealand Citizenship, and it receives governing assistance from New Zealand, it is in fact, and independent Nation.

Or even North Sentinel Island (which has been in the News recently), most people have probably never even heard of this isolated Neolithic island that time forgot (I only learned about it earlier this spring).

The point I'm making is the Periphery is vast, and to the learned folks of the Inner Sphere not a very important place. What goes on there is of no importance to them, and people getting all in a Tizzy about it now becoming part of the game, should really look to our Real World history and realize that things that happened half a world away they probably never heard of, and things that even happen in their own backyard went largely unknown to them.

So, take a deep breath and rejoice in new intrigues to learn about.
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Sartris

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1056 on: 28 November 2018, 09:23:32 »
i don't think it needs to be rationalized that hard. canon is not sacrosanct and should be adjusted as the need arises. after all it's the fake history of an impossible future. it's not that deep.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1057 on: 28 November 2018, 10:29:36 »
i don't think it needs to be rationalized that hard. canon is not sacrosanct and should be adjusted as the need arises. after all it's the fake history of an impossible future. it's not that deep.

I want to love that answer . . . and hate it at the same time!  lol

So one more try (at least) . . . any chance to pre-order the PDF so I can add it to my Christmas list?
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1058 on: 28 November 2018, 10:38:17 »
Guys just stop a minute and take a look at that Classic Battletech cover right there.... just saying.... beautiful

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1059 on: 28 November 2018, 10:49:39 »
Now I am getting really confused.

It is a total fake, right?

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1060 on: 28 November 2018, 10:50:42 »
Nope, its happening . . .
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1061 on: 28 November 2018, 10:52:07 »
the only way it could be considered fake is if you deny the existence of digital items as real.

I want to love that answer . . . and hate it at the same time!  lol

i'm only here to dispense hard, bitter truths. how you react to it is completely your business
« Last Edit: 28 November 2018, 10:53:54 by Sartris »

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1062 on: 28 November 2018, 12:02:19 »
So one more try (at least) . . . any chance to pre-order the PDF so I can add it to my Christmas list?

HBS asked the same thing. My understanding is that we don't currently have the ability to do pre-orders on PDF items that are not yet available.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1063 on: 28 November 2018, 12:39:11 »
Auriga is far too powerful for its size to be classified as a minor Periphery faction, and it is right next to a Successor State and a major Periphery nation.
That is a major issue. Were it weaker and/or farther away, it would be less of an issue.
It is not quite comparable to, say, that aforementioned Newfoundland.

Now, if the tabletop canon version is actually weaker, truly more of a minor nation? Sure, why not. But until we see that version in March, it will be appear to be a problem.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1064 on: 28 November 2018, 12:51:36 »
I doubt that their real size (planets that matter, and so get into the BIG interstellar maps) is larger than that of the Fronc Reaches.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1065 on: 28 November 2018, 12:53:39 »
I will be looking forward to it.  Thanks for the news Cubby! :thumbsup:
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1066 on: 28 November 2018, 12:55:10 »
Auriga is far too powerful for its size to be classified as a minor Periphery faction, and it is right next to a Successor State and a major Periphery nation.
That is a major issue. Were it weaker and/or farther away, it would be less of an issue.
It is not quite comparable to, say, that aforementioned Newfoundland.

Now, if the tabletop canon version is actually weaker, truly more of a minor nation? Sure, why not. But until we see that version in March, it will be appear to be a problem.

Far too powerful?  A single battalion of Taurian 'mechs is enough to be a real game-changer in their civil war.  They have no production sites for ANYTHING.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1067 on: 28 November 2018, 13:04:55 »
Uwell, you do not need to produce anything when you can salvage SL tech by the dozen. That is true xD

Empyrus

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1068 on: 28 November 2018, 13:37:44 »
Uwell, you do not need to produce anything when you can salvage SL tech by the dozen. That is true xD
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1069 on: 28 November 2018, 13:53:21 »
I guess I'm just not sure why the geopolitical setting of Battletech has to be any more believable than its weapons of war.  Does including the Aurigans require some minor adjustments to the balance of power in one small corner of the Inner Sphere?  If CGL wants it to make sense, of course it does. 

But so what?  Why should this game, alone, be immune from retcons?  Especially if the retcon allows for the inclusion of something very popular that probably doesn't survive long enough to see the Invasion?  The HBS game is one of the most successful products in recent years to bear the Battletech name.  It would be silly for CGL not to at least attempt to integrate SOMETHING from the game into the tabletop.  Heck, even GW rewrote the entire 13th crusade event to generate a new, more interesting narrative. 
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1070 on: 28 November 2018, 14:12:28 »

I see it like this, it is not the total number of Mechs that matters, but the available number of Mechs.
In a normal situation many 'Mechs would be assigned to specific sites/duties or are in private hands, and thus not be available for interstellar deployment.
But in a civil war, things get a lot more nasty and desperate, and thus more usage of the total number of 'Mechs, which is followed by more permenant losses.
The end result will be that the available number of Mechs will be severely impacted and the nation will lose influence/worlds.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1071 on: 28 November 2018, 14:16:51 »
I'm not opposed to retcons if they truly add something, plus are integrated well, even large ones. Seen a lot of bad retcons in fiction well after a franchise's formative stages (in those stages, retcons may either be needed -like BT's start- or things just aren't set in stone yet) so i'm leery of retcons.

So, Auriga gets added. Now, if it does survive the Fourth Succession War, will it be referred in the future? Will events where it logically probably should've played role get re-written in some form? Or does it subsequently get ignored?
"One and done" is no good.

As for geopolitics, that's human nature. 'Mechs are sine qua non of BT, along with ridiculously small armies and whatever else, and so get pass. But geopolitics and that shit is human nature, which decidedly isn't particularly different from real world, so at least i do hold them to higher standard (well, somewhat, anyway).

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1072 on: 28 November 2018, 14:25:53 »
So I am not allowed to have any sort of criticism about this.  I admit I was a bit overboard in my reaction. I apologize if I started anything or offended anyone.
Yes I do know that there are minor periphery realms that are flash in the pans so to speak and I have nothing against any fans of this realm.  I just would rather see the timeline move forward than to keep adding content in the past.  I do respect that the people in charge have said it's a retcon, instead of 'no body has talked about it before". 
Then again they could just say that the Argurian Reach is the Free Worlds League of the periphery. It exists but no one talks about it has done nothing.    ;)
Neonknight, I am a Canadian under 60, yes I know about Newfoundland, and yes I know there are countries that no longer exist.  I am not an idiot.
« Last Edit: 28 November 2018, 14:38:56 by Valerius »

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1073 on: 28 November 2018, 14:39:29 »
And has a secret double of their ruler on the throne, while the true ruler has become a true believer of a doomsday cult?  And the double is actually cares more about the realm then the real one?


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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1074 on: 28 November 2018, 14:50:45 »
Can we focus on new stuff?  New PDF for February sounds interesting. I do wonder if some ATOW stuff will be thrown in there too. I know RPG isn't as popular among the Tabletop crowd, but i think it's good for the game too.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1075 on: 28 November 2018, 14:53:01 »
So I am not allowed to have any sort of criticism about this.

This is absolutely untrue. Disagreement and criticism are always okay, within the bounds of the forum rules.

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I just would rather see the timeline move forward than to keep adding content in the past.
As is your right. Everybody has their own preferences. Some people get excited by the Aurigan Reach, others get excited by Shattered Fortress and ilClan. No one product is going to please everybody.

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Neonknight, I am a Canadian under 60, yes I know about Newfoundland, and yes I know there are countries that no longer exist.  I am not an idiot.

I highly doubt his intention was to insult  anyone's intelligence.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1076 on: 28 November 2018, 14:58:18 »
So I am not allowed to have any sort of criticism about this. 

Nobody is saying this.
I criticize the game all the time. 
Alllllllllll the time.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1077 on: 28 November 2018, 15:07:46 »
And has a secret double of their ruler on the throne, while the true ruler has become a true believer of a doomsday cult?  And the double is actually cares more about the realm then the real one?

I love that bit.

The problem with fictional geopolitics is that we hold the participants to ideal forms and expect them to behave logically - when real history is full of unpredictable and accidental events, and leaders who make horrible decisions. The plot twists of history would be panned and ridiculous contrivances if presented as fiction.

So I am not allowed to have any sort of criticism about this.

No one said that. Putting your opinion in a discussion form invites discussion, which carries no guarantees of agreement. You have a ways to go around here before your comments are widely ignored like mine (that’s not entirely accurate. I’m often pilloried)

If you want to see worked up, find the locked threads on changing loose’s early TRO art or the Legend Killer’s stats

Yes I do know that there are minor periphery realms that are flash in the pans so to speak and I have nothing against any fans of this realm.  I just would rather see the timeline move forward than to keep adding content in the past. 

Now here’s something we agree on. The one caveat here is that the writing was done by people not in the regular stable of devs or freelance writers so this particular item didn’t necessarily replace something new in the release schedule.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1078 on: 28 November 2018, 15:17:35 »
Neonknight, I am a Canadian under 60, yes I know about Newfoundland, and yes I know there are countries that no longer exist.  I am not an idiot.

I never said you were. I merely stated, in the case of Newfoundland, that I was never aware it actually had autonomy outside of British Colonial rule. And is not something i ever really put a lot of thought into.

My point on countries that no longer exist, is outside of countries like Prussia and Austria, and Macedonia, and other similar type places is how many places that used to exist had little geopolitical influence and as a result no-one batted an eye over their demise, or when told of their existance went...Huh...never Knew.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1079 on: 28 November 2018, 15:19:40 »
The lost ‘Mechs of the Star League, first introduced in TRO 2750, one day, were no longer lost. They weren’t found, they just suddenly *were always there*.

This too shall pass.

My opinion: retcons that *add* and *create* are much better and far easier to swallow than those that *destroy*, like Star Wars “Legends.”
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