Flamer Infantry

[scatcat]

I'd like to get a handle on flamer infantry. How does flamer infantry work?

[Weirdo]

They do damage just like regular troops, but like 'mech flamers, they have the option of dealing that damage as heat instead of armor damage.

[scatcat]

How they perform against vehicles? Do they do damage or crits?

Do every 3 groupings autokill an elemental?

[Alexander Knight]

Flamer Infantry have an option to treat the damage they deal as Heat.  Heat against units without a heat scale is treated as per the normal rules.

[Weirdo]

Same as Mech-sized flamers. Those only do normal damage to vehicles, battlesuits, or anything else that lacks a heat scale. No bonus damage, no extra crits, no autokill chances.

(It's infernos that get those chances, not flamers. I'm guessing that this is the source of some of your confusion. :))

[Coldwyn]

Flamer Inafantry is a very descent city fighting option. Upgrade to mechanized and added support plasma and go find a mech to gang up on.

[scatcat]

Flamer Infantry have an option to treat the damage they deal as Heat.  Heat against units without a heat scale is treated as per the normal rules.

Same as Mech-sized flamers. Those only do normal damage to vehicles, battlesuits, or anything else that lacks a heat scale. No bonus damage, no extra crits, no autokill chances.

(It's infernos that get those chances, not flamers. I'm guessing that this is the source of some of your confusion. :))

Infernos do not equal flamers. Got it.  I've pored over TW and Tac Ops looking for "normal rules" as flamers relate to other units and found none. So given the above two quotes, do flamers only have an option to treat their damage as heat against mechs and merely deal damage against other units? Seems counterintuitive a heat based weapon doesn't so something special against heat susceptible units.

[Coldwyn]

Infernos do not equal flamers. Got it.  I've pored over TW and Tac Ops looking for "normal rules" as flamers relate to other units and found none. So given the above two quotes, do flamers only have an option to treat their damage as heat against mechs and merely deal damage against other units? Seems counterintuitive a heat based weapon doesn't so something special against heat susceptible units.

The relevant quote is:

Notes: Flame-Based Weapon (may inflict damage and heat to heat-tracking units).

[Weirdo]

Infernos do not equal flamers. Got it.  I've pored over TW and Tac Ops looking for "normal rules" as flamers relate to other units and found none. So given the above two quotes, do flamers only have an option to treat their damage as heat against mechs and merely deal damage against other units?

Exactly correct. (Well, they can also deal heat to aerospace fighters and small craft, but the circumstances where that can happen are pretty rare.)

Seems counterintuitive a heat based weapon doesn't so something special against heat susceptible units.

I don't mind. Flamers are the weakest overall of fire-based weapons, it's my thinking that they just don't do enough to justify the extra properties more powerful weapons have.

[Diablo48]

I don't mind. Flamers are the weakest overall of fire-based weapons, it's my thinking that they just don't do enough to justify the extra properties more powerful weapons have.

That said, Flamers are great for starting fires, torching supplies, and other mean tricks like that due to their infinite ammo.  This should also apply to the infantry versions so it might be worth using small flame inf as screening units to cut off enemies trying to advance through woods or buildings.

That said, it does seem odd that a 'Mech Flamer does 4d6 damage to infantry but the infantry version does nothing special when used against other infantry.

[Beazle]

That said, Flamers are great for starting fires, torching supplies, and other mean tricks like that due to their infinite ammo.  This should also apply to the infantry versions so it might be worth using small flame inf as screening units to cut off enemies trying to advance through woods or buildings.

That said, it does seem odd that a 'Mech Flamer does 4d6 damage to infantry but the infantry version does nothing special when used against other infantry.

If your going to use infantry to start fires, you might want to make them mechanized.  Don't want to get burned to death when your own fire spreads too fast.

[Sami Jumppanen]

OK. So the flame based weapons don't do anything special to the units that don't track heat. Now about inferno ammo? Like SRM infantry with their inferno missiles or any unit with grenade launchers loaded with inferno grenades?

[Alexander Knight]

Inferno grenades or inferno rounds for anything other than SRMs are treated as heat-based weapons like Flamers.

[Diablo48]

Inferno grenades or inferno rounds for anything other than SRMs are treated as heat-based weapons like Flamers.

I thought there was a conversion to inferno SRMs for the Arrow IV round so it would use the inferno SRM rules as well.

[SCC]

About flamers and extra heat damage, do you give up normal damage points to get it or do they simply do an amount of heat damage equal to their normal damage to heat tracking units?

[House Davie Merc]

I find it rather odd that even though the flamers are one of the most
destructive weapons against infantry in 3025  , flamer infantry do NOT get
any type of bonus against other infantry .

Nothing . Nadda .

If they produce enough flame to raise the heat level of a mech then why don't they
get a damage bonus against other  infantry ?

IIRC I asked about this in the rules section years ago and did not get a reply .

[Coldwyn]

I find it rather odd that even though the flamers are one of the most
destructive weapons against infantry in 3025  , flamer infantry do NOT get
any type of bonus against other infantry .

Nothing . Nadda .

If they produce enough flame to raise the heat level of a mech then why don't they
get a damage bonus against other  infantry ?

IIRC I asked about this in the rules section years ago and did not get a reply .

For one thing, Infantry vs Infantry rules are not so thrilling, so far. If I rememebr it right, those rules started to appear very late in the game with Maximum Tech and haven´t advanced far from there. OTOH, you can always adapt AToW rules for flamers, meaning continous damage as the target burns.

[scatcat]

Sounds like I'm not the only one believing flamer infantry is woefully nerfed.

Thanks for the clarifications and explanations Weirdo and Alexander! I'll have flamer infantry down cold at our next Battletech throwdown.  O0

[Weirdo]

OK. So the flame based weapons don't do anything special to the units that don't track heat. Now about inferno ammo? Like SRM infantry with their inferno missiles or any unit with grenade launchers loaded with inferno grenades?

What Alex said. If the infantry isn't flinging Inferno SRMs, you simply convert the damage straight to heat, same as flamers.

If you are using Inferno SRMs, you cut the normal damage in half, and that's how many Inferno Missiles the target got hit by. I forget which why odd numbers round off the top of my head. Probably down.

I thought there was a conversion to inferno SRMs for the Arrow IV round so it would use the inferno SRM rules as well.

There is, we're just talking about infantry weapons in this thread. Inferno-IV is a whole different sack of badgers from Inferno grenades.

About flamers and extra heat damage, do you give up normal damage points to get it or do they simply do an amount of heat damage equal to their normal damage to heat tracking units?

Heat dealt is exactly equal to the normal damage you would normally do. As said before, same as 'mech-scale flamer rules.

[SCC]

Heat dealt is exactly equal to the normal damage you would normally do. As said before, same as 'mech-scale flamer rules.

That does answer my question, but I was asking about if flamers in general being able to do that

[Weirdo]

That does answer my question, but I was asking about if flamers in general being able to do that

...yes?

[A. Lurker]

With flamers you have to look, not in the general "Combat Weapons and Equipment" section explaining the various special rules, but at the actual respective Inner Sphere/Clan Weapons And Equipment Table. It's that little footnote the §§ next to the flamer's damage value points at.