LAM Dropship Bays?

[ParsonBoyles]

Hi!

I'm a huge fan of LAMs, and I'm trying to pick or design a dropship to carry my force.

My question is about the transport bay. It seems to reason that they would be able to use either a fighter door or a mech bay door. They could fly off in orbit and walk on from the ground. (Or vice versa.)

From what I've been able to tell, the current rules say you'd have to set aside two transportation bays in order to give a LAM the options, which means one would always be empty. Are there any official rules about giving a LAM bay both a mech door and a fighter door?

I'm new to these forums (HI!) so if there's a better place to post this question, please let me know. :)

[Daryk]

There's no reason at all to leave a bay empty... you just don't enter that bay when it's full.  You should be able to move the LAM between the two bays internally.

[glitterboy2098]

and a door is a door. there is no functional difference in the rules between a door on a bay holding mechbays, and a door on one holding fighter bays. what makes a bay door a fighter door is the fighter bays inside, and what makes one a mech door is being to a bay with mechbays inside.

since LAM's can use either a fighter or mech bay, depending on mode, it can thus use either type of door as well. you don't need extra doors for LAM's. or to leave bays empty.

(i think some of the confusion is the fact that we refer to compartments on a dropship or warship as "bays" but we also refer to the storage and repair cubicals for fighters, mechs,and vehicles as "bays" as well when you will usually see several such cubicals in each dropship compartment.)


If i was loading a Leopard i could fit 6 LAMs aboard.. 4 in the mech cubicals in mech mode and 2 in the fighter cubicals in fighter mode. i could launch all 6 using the 6 doors on the dropship.. 2 of which go to the bay with the fighter cubicles, 4 to the bay with the mech cubicals.

they'd launch in these modes but could immediately change modes to whatever they need.. the mech mode LAm's shifting to fighter mode in space or the fighter mode LAM's shifting to mech mode on a planet, etc.
likewise when they return to the dropship they'd board in much the same way.. 4 of them shifting to mech mode to go to the mech cubicals and 2 into fighter mode to land in the fighter cubicals.

[Red Pins]

Tagged

[Weirdo]

Why on Earth would you need two bays? Just pick one. If you use a mech bay, you can still launch while in space, and transform right after. If you use a fighter bay while on the ground, just offload the same way fighters do, then transform and walk away.

Transport bays on DropShips are far too precious to leave half of them empty like that.

[ParsonBoyles]

Thanks for your replies, guys!

I guess I was asking to see if there was anything canon about LAM focused dropships. It seems to me that someone in the Inner Sphere would either build or retrofit a specialized dropship to fully take advantage of the tactical advantages of a LAM. I definitely would! :D

And I definitely wouldn't want to have two bays for each unit. If you play strictly by the established rules, it seems you gotta make some kind of compromise. Obviously, in the comfort of your own home game, you can do whatever you want.

Thanks again!

[Weirdo]

Still confused. If a LAM can use either type of bay, what's the compromise? ???

[Daryk]

Weirdo's right... just use 'mech bays and call it good...

[Charistoph]

I guess I was asking to see if there was anything canon about LAM focused dropships. It seems to me that someone in the Inner Sphere would either build or retrofit a specialized dropship to fully take advantage of the tactical advantages of a LAM. I definitely would! :D

Well, yeah.  It's called the SLDF, who would deploy unit models by the company.  However, over the 300 years of the Succession Wars, they would have been destroyed or converted to being Mech or ASF carriers as LAMs became as rare as hen's teeth.

[Weirdo]

Again, still confused. What on Earth would a DropShip need to be LAM-focused, that a normal mech or fighter-carrying DropShip doesn't already have? That's one of the big advantages of LAMs, their transport flexibility.

[Charistoph]

Again, still confused. What on Earth would a DropShip need to be LAM-focused, that a normal mech or fighter-carrying DropShip doesn't already have? That's one of the big advantages of LAMs, their transport flexibility.

You have it in your question.  Earth, and the Terran Hegemony at the core of the SLDF, was a political structure that threw money at problems.  Have this new weapon system to deploy, why not have a ship specifically designed to deploy it in its unusual way.  All it takes is greasing the right hands in Procurement, and you have the contract to build dropships that are specifically designed to launch LAMs in space or on land.

Does it make sense?  Not really.  But military-industrial complexes often do things which don't make sense.  Now I'm not saying there was one, just that the SLDF would have been the one to launch one if anyone would have.

[Weirdo]

Still not seeing the point.

A DropShip that can launch LAMs in space or on land is called a mech carrier. In both environments, you launch in mech mode. If you're in space or airborne, the LAMs immediately transform to fighters, and it has cost them nothing to do so.

A DropShip that carries 12 LAMs is called a Union that has simply painted "Land-Air Mechs Only" on the bay doors.

There is zero need for a dedicated LAM ship, and I'm still trying to figure out what such a superflous vessel's record sheet would look like.

[pfarland]

The benefits to using an aerobay. You could launch in Space, Air, or on Land at ease. Using a mech bay to launch in space would be ok as long as you weren't under thrust and the mech bay has an airlock. In the air, well I see that as a few piloting rolls, lol.

[Giovanni Blasini]

The benefits to using an aerobay. You could launch in Space, Air, or on Land at ease. Using a mech bay to launch in space would be ok as long as you weren't under thrust and the mech bay has an airlock. In the air, well I see that as a few piloting rolls, lol.

How is it any different from any other deployment of a 'Mech out a 'Mech bay door in space for orbital dropping, or an atmospheric drop, other than not using a cocoon or jump pack?

[Weirdo]

What he said. Mech bays already have all of that, otherwise the rules would have more than zero issues with launching mechs in space.

[Daryk]

*snip*
A DropShip that carries 12 14 LAMs is called a Union that has simply painted "Land-Air Mechs Only" on the bay doors.
*snip*

FTFY...  ^-^

[Weirdo]

Well, yeah. I was focusing on the Mech bays, since I'm trying to illustrate that they already do everything the OP wants LAM bays to do.

[Daryk]

Totally with you there... just wanted to make sure the ASF bays were acknowledged too...  :thumbsup:

[Giovanni Blasini]

Y'now, I once considered a raiding unit or pirate band that operated off a Quetzalcoutl, using 12 LAMs, but couldn't quite figure out how to make the logistics work, ie. cargo, fuel, etc.

[Daryk]

Hard, but doable I think.  Step one, of course, is redesigning the Q in accordance with modern rules...

[glitterboy2098]

biggest issues with a Quetzalcoutl is that it is a standard core jumpship with no dropship collars. so it is only viable as a raider if you want to raid space stations or other jumpships that are at jumpoints.

[Giovanni Blasini]

biggest issues with a Quetzalcoutl is that it is a standard core jumpship with no dropship collars. so it is only viable as a raider if you want to raid space stations or other jumpships that are at jumpoints.

Or you like pirate points.

[Charistoph]

Well, yeah. I was focusing on the Mech bays, since I'm trying to illustrate that they already do everything the OP wants LAM bays to do.

Except have the catapults for quick launch that ASFs require.

[Major Headcase]

While a "dedicated" LAM carrier isn't an essential need, I would agree, one issue does come to mind where a ship designed for the particular talents of LAM operation could come in handy.
Someone posted above that the LAM could board the ship in mech form and somehow get into the fighter launch bay internally.. But, can they? Really? If you look at the layout of many dropships (purely based on location of launch bay doors since deck plans are very rare in Btech) I just dont see most ships having the internal room or layout for a mech to walk to the launch bays, which are usually not even in the same decks at the mech bays, have room to transform, and taxi into the fighter bay...
A ship designed for LAMs would have the proper space and layout to accommodate those specific actions, and efficiently as well; for faster combat operations and turnaround.
While not needed per se, a specialist LAM combat carrier dropship could be an interesting machine? And breath fresh life into a niche of the game sadly neglected.

[Weirdo]

Except have the catapults for quick launch that ASFs require.

Incorrect, based on the fact that mechs and fighters launch at exactly the same speeds.

[Weirdo]

...the LAM could board the ship in mech form and somehow get into the fighter launch bay internally...

But why would you ever bother doing this, when the mech bay does literally everything the fighter bay does?

[Major Headcase]

But why would you ever bother doing this, when the mech bay does literally everything the fighter bay does?

Options. Why does a modern landing ship have helicopter pads on deck as well as an internal boat launch for the same soldiers? Options. You are approaching the planet with LAMS loaded as mechs for fast deploy on the ground; on approach the planet launches ASF your Intel didn't know they had. Instead of kicking you mechs out the bay doors unprepared, the mechs quickly move to the ASF bays, where fuel and external stores are added, and launched properly. All while keeping the mech bays prepped and ready for the return servicing. Also, recovering them on the ground is easier in mech form and the ability to store deploy them internally however the needs of battle dictate would be a huge time saver.
The reverse scenario is just as applicable.

[Major Headcase]

Also I've been looking back at some of the fictional mentions of dropship/aerospace operations (since again, the operational details are limited) and in the books, ASF bays do use catapults. They punt the fighter out of the bay at a neutral speed to the dropship so the fighter can let off its Fusion torch engines OUTSIDE the enclosed bay. It doesn't shoot them out like a cannon ala Battlestar Galactica.. likewise the bay has recovery equipment to snag the Fighter's once they return and match speed and vector, which is why dropships have to stop accelerating and maneuvering to recover them (supposedly with a space shuttle style recovery arm maybe?) which leaves them deadly vulnerable in combat.
So, no, a Mech bay does NOT already do everything a ASF bay does...

[Maingunnery]

Also I've been looking back at some of the fictional mentions of dropship/aerospace operations (since again, the operational details are limited) and in the books, ASF bays do use catapults. They punt the fighter out of the bay at a neutral speed to the dropship so the fighter can let off its Fusion torch engines OUTSIDE the enclosed bay. It doesn't shoot them out like a cannon ala Battlestar Galactica.. likewise the bay has recovery equipment to snag the Fighter's once they return and match speed and vector, which is why dropships have to stop accelerating and maneuvering to recover them (supposedly with a space shuttle style recovery arm maybe?) which leaves them deadly vulnerable in combat.
So, no, a Mech bay does NOT already do everything a ASF bay does...

Depending on the pov, as Mechbays have gantires that grab onto Mechs and that can also shove them out of the dropship during combat drops.

[Major Headcase]

Depending on the pov, as Mechbays have gantires that grab onto Mechs and that can also shove them out of the dropship during combat drops.

Again, sources vary. I've read the books where the mechs with Jjets just step out of the open bay doors!  ;D and the mech bay gantry grabs the mech as a "seatbelt" function, holding securely in place, for the mech during maneuvering, it doesn't reach out of the dropship and grab the mech and bring it in.
But one way to look at it is that any and or all of these functions could be available? There are a lot of dropship designs, made and perfected over centuries, so different ships could operate in very different ways that all equate to the same outcome for game mechanics purposes, so the differences are cosmetic only? Who knows?? It's fun to speculate though.  :)