TRO:Fortifications ?

[StoneRhino]

I have a new player, someone I have known for years and has known MW games for some time ask about the scale of the game that we are playing. We played a MMO-FPS game called Planetside for years. that made me think about fortifications in BT. I can only recall a few official fortifications, but those were printed in McCarrons Armored Calvary. I believe that there may have been some published within the past 10-15 years, but do not recall where.

That leaves me with 2 questions:
1. Are there additional fortifications that have been published and if so where?

2. Would anyone be interested in a mini, pdf, TRO covering fortifications for different factions and for different unit types?

I know that we have the rules and a handful of examples, but there is always a want for something that is official. In addition to different fortifications perhaps an example of where they would be placed and how often they are used. Would a local militia place anything around a city or just around a base? What would they likely use? How does the type and volume change between low priority worlds versus a capital?

[Charlie Tango]

The ones in the McCarron's book were (as I recall) stupidly overpowered...


Official Rules for fortifications,etc  are in Tactical Operations.  I'd say build to your heart's content.

[Cubby]

Official Rules for fortifications,etc  are in Tactical Operations.  I'd say build to your heart's content.

Yup, TO - and they're very thorough.

[Robroy]

Have you seen the hex pack promotion in the download section?

http://bg.battletech.com/download/HexPack%20Promotion%201.pdf?x64300

It has a number of fortifications with specs for different eras.

[I am Belch II]

I would like to see that. But I think there is a better chance of TRO Warships updated is a better chance.

[grimlock1]

The ones in the McCarron's book were (as I recall) stupidly overpowered...


Official Rules for fortifications,etc  are in Tactical Operations.  I'd say build to your heart's content.

The Castle Brian emplacements in Jihad Hotspots: Terra are dang near broken too. Granted the -4 for immobile target and no TMM will help but 150 AF + 150 CF makes for a rather tough nut to crack. And most are armed with various combos of gauss, ER PPC, LB-10 and LRMs, and plenty of AMS.  Frack me!

Oh, I made a mistake, the single hex weapon bunkers are 150 AF + 150 CF. Everything else like the AA bunkers or the Reinforced Weapon Bunkers are built with CAPTIAL scale AF and CF.  So.... the AA Bunker's 100 points of Capital Scale armor mean it can tank 1,000 points of mech scale damage before there is any risk to the crew or weapons inside.   Frack me sideways!

[Mendrugo]

The trick is balance - if your foe gets to put a Castle Brian's worth of ordnance on the table, you trundle up with a lance of Rattlers and soften 'em up with cruise missiles before moving in to mop up.

Either that, or set a Victory Condition objective that doesn't require flattening the entire complex.  Perhaps an artillery bombardment knocked open a maintenance hatch on a turret, and, to win, you need to get a team of BattleArmor infiltrators there, shifting the fight to the interior corridors. 

Alternately, you could use the rules that allow non-penetrating hits to score "crew killed" results, leaving you with an intact (but gooey) installation that your own infantry could infiltrate and take over.  (The Big Mac book also has rules for firewalls that allow different portions of a bunker to be separated, so a "crew killed" result only kills the people manning one section, letting the rest continue fighting, and granting the possibility that a backup crew could be moved in to restore the emplacement to functionality.

[dgorsman]

Ermmm... it's a Castle Brian.  It's intended to survive nuclear and orbital bombardment.  Of corse a couple of Mechs with artillery are only going to scratch it.

I'd say it does its job well.

[Mendrugo]

The Rattlers are mobile structures - essentially small Castles Brian on treads.  They'd be the ones launching the cruise missiles.

[Weirdo]

Another way to balance nasty structures is this: Even truly desperate forces(say, WoB or Amaris towards the end) still had tanks to throw at the enemy. If you were any kind of decent gunner, that's where you would be. Those massive gun bunkers seem a lot less impossible to crack when you realize that's probably a 5 or 6 gunner in there. Keep your movement up, treat the mobile forces the bunker is supporting as the main threat, and grind the concrete down over time.

[Colt Ward]

Artillery! . . . sanding down fortifications is what Thumper and Sniper are for . . . they can also load smoke to obscure.  Finally . . . Arrow IV Inferno is a good way to end a single hex pillbox, no matter the CF.

I know Plasma Rifles and Cannons do more damage to vehicles, BA and infantry . . . do they score more against buildings?

[Scotty]

Plasma Rifles (and cannons) do their extra damage to any target that doesn't track heat.  Presently units that track heat include the following: 'Mechs, IndustrialMechs, and ASFs.  Everything else does not.

[Weirdo]

Artillery! . . . sanding down fortifications is what Thumper and Sniper are for . . . they can also load smoke to obscure.  Finally . . . Arrow IV Inferno is a good way to end a single hex pillbox, no matter the CF.

I know Plasma Rifles and Cannons do more damage to vehicles, BA and infantry . . . do they score more against buildings?

Artillery is a good idea, and possibly one of the only times to actually use the arty spotting rules outside of Alpha Strike. Smoke is a VERY good idea, wether artillery or missile delivered.

Fire...is why EVERY bunker complex should incorporate at least a minimum of infantry for firefighting. Coolant trucks and firefighting support vees are crazy cheap, so keeping one or two handy is also a good idea.

[dgorsman]

Is fire treated differently for capital buildings?  Somehow, I feel it should.

[Weirdo]

No clue. Even if they're not, 2CF/turn barely rates as an inconvenience to these things. And given the multi-hex nature of most Brian structures, firefighters can battle a blaze from the safety of the next hex over, instead of exposing themselves on an open battlefield.

[Colt Ward]

Does the building protect what is in it from fire that well however?  All I can think of is FAE leaving behind usable bunkers and the fire gutted pillboxes of WWII.  Buildings maybe fine but the crew, weapons or mechanisms can be taken out . . . are fortifications able to be crit?

[Scotty]

No clue. Even if they're not, 2CF/turn barely rates as an inconvenience to these things. And given the multi-hex nature of most Brian structures, firefighters can battle a blaze from the safety of the next hex over, instead of exposing themselves on an open battlefield.

2 CF/turn feels like plenty when 70+ turns is probably a little bit under 12 minutes.  You don't burn down buildings at combat speed.

It just happens that "not combat speed" is the part that BT really sucks at modeling.

[Weirdo]

Does the building protect what is in it from fire that well however?  All I can think of is FAE leaving behind usable bunkers and the fire gutted pillboxes of WWII.  Buildings maybe fine but the crew, weapons or mechanisms can be taken out . . . are fortifications able to be crit?

Near as I can tell, a building does not protect units inside from fire. Therefore you'll want to station your firefighters either in hexes unlikely to be attacked from the outside, or outside the building entirely, preferably where they can use the building as cover from direct shots.

You can crit fortifications and even Brians, but only after all armor is gone, and good luck putting together enough gun to crit a Brian using conventional forces.

[Colt Ward]

I have not had the opportunity to use fortifications at all on table top, and barely with MM so its not a section of TacOps I have looked at closely . . . but if I understand correctly, if I hit a fortified hex with A4 Inferno (which lights up that hex and the surrounding six) any thing using that fortification has to deal with fire effects?

Guess the same for FAE since I seem to remember them being a canon bomb.

[Weirdo]

Yes for Inferno, at least. Been a bit since I looked at them, but I don't think FAEs auto-ignite in Battletech. Improved ignition chance, maybe.

[Colt Ward]

I meant they would damage unprotected infantry- aka suck the air out of their lungs.

[dgorsman]

From IO, FAE's are more blast than incendiary.  Some fire effects but nothing close to infernos, extra damage to infantry and buildings *except* for Castle Brian structures.  I would think, at least table rule that units sheltered in certain types of structures would take less or no damage.

[dgorsman]

Ahhhh why not: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=65348.0

[RifleMech]

2. Would anyone be interested in a mini, pdf, TRO covering fortifications for different factions and for different unit types?

I don't think we'd see a TRO just for buildings and fortifications but it would be great if a couple could be included in TROs along with the other units.

[Red Pins]

Interesting.  Let me know if I can help.

[AlphaMirage]

I am also interested.  Making plug and play bunkers is always helpful for OPFOR

[mbear]

The "Dirty Tricks" scenario from Fourth Succession War Scenario Pack had some tripwires and pit traps listed. They might give you some ideas too.

The Tripwire: This is a reinforced steel cable anchored across a city street, then drawn taught by a high speed winch. A player whose 'Mech hits this wire must make a Piloting Skill Roll with a modifier of +2 if walking, or a modifier of +4 if running. If the roll is unsuccessful, the 'Mech falls, taking normal falling damage. Once the Tripwire has been used, its location is known and cannot be used any longer.

The Pitfall: Liao combat engineers have set demolition charges along several sewer lines, intending to cause an explosion that will collapse the street above. When a Davion 'Mech moves over a hex containing such a charge, the Liao player rolls 2D6. On a roll of 4 or more, the street caves in and the 'Mech automatically falls, taking normal falling damage. From then on, the hex is considered Rubble for movement and combat purposes.

The Liao player has three Tripwires and three Pitfalls. Each fills one hex and can be placed on a Paved hex only.

[I am Belch II]

Some of the Map Packs had some bunkers in there with weapons. I think that will be the closet to a TRO of Fortifications.
I would like to see some record sheets, it would help me make some custom ones.

[Colt Ward]

I am not sure a Fortification TRO is really needed . . . while its not a official product, MM has the ability to construct buildings as complicated as you could want along with weapons to place inside . . . took me a bit to get it, kept mistakenly sticking the AC/10 turrets on top of the wall and wondering why it got crit.  With that you could plan out a fortification for a table top game with the maps you intend to use.

How many folks use the two base maps from one of the map packs as it is?

[SteelRaven]

The Warship and VA TROs get allot of love on the forum but have a hard time selling, I really doubt TRO: Buildings! would be worth the resources. TRO Like write up in a story and/or scenario with said fortified structure would be a different story.

I mean, I would love a map, even a simple map of the Hesperus mech factory after reading Operation Excalibur and about the prior battles during the 3rd Succession War. We are are most to see such a map in TP: Hesperus II because, where else would it make sense to put the map?