Author Topic: What would you want in a dedicated CV?  (Read 8424 times)

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4259
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #30 on: 16 December 2022, 04:03:51 »
Like most so-called carrier vessels in BattleTech, the Quetzalcoatl, too, is hamstrung by a prohibitive lack of fuel reserves. BT fighter carrier vessels, much like the 'Mech carriers, are really just deployment vessels designed to deliver a bunch of fighters into a combat zone. They are essentially incapable of serving as motherships. The Leopard CV is the least bad of the bunch imho; and the Titan tries to be too many things at once.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10594
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #31 on: 16 December 2022, 05:08:26 »
Like most so-called carrier vessels in BattleTech, the Quetzalcoatl, too, is hamstrung by a prohibitive lack of fuel reserves. BT fighter carrier vessels, much like the 'Mech carriers, are really just deployment vessels designed to deliver a bunch of fighters into a combat zone. They are essentially incapable of serving as motherships. The Leopard CV is the least bad of the bunch imho; and the Titan tries to be too many things at once.

I'll agree on that-we don't have designs that could logically do the job they're supposed to be doing in the canon.

hence why I made my list in my first post on this, and why I argued what I did in my second and third-the Naval side of the game suffers enormously from "quick toss something up there we need to make page count" instead of anything resembling a dedicated idea of WHAT to fill that page count with...which may be why Battlespace and subsequent efforts to highlight space-naval have failed commercially while the ground game's done little but prosper in the same hands.

I kind of think we almost need to find a way to divorce the two while having them coexist in the fiction.  Different focus, not just terrain and tech, but focus for it.

I had this idea before, but didn't go anywhere with it, but...

With the ground game, we have 'traits' and "quirks"-special rules for certain units reflected in their fluff.  Since Naval is really more Strategic than Tactical, maybe "Doctrines" unique to established factions that alter the tables, not reflecting the tech, so much as how the people using it are taught and trained to use it?

[Insert Clan name] faction forces have Harjel in the hull, while [insert Sphere faction] depressurizes theirs before combat, each alters a different part of the critical hits table and has their own drawbacks (depressurized ops don't apply to transport/landing ships while Harjel applies to everything but fighters, the trade being that ships running depressurized don't have fires but cost more to man, while Harjel protection invalidates blowouts, but leaves the user vulnerable to internal fires.)

You know, like Faction "A" gets a bonus for fighting in groups, while faction "B" gets a bonus for soloing.  because that's how they trained.

Ideas for a general list:

1. Damage Control doctrines differing between factions where one faction has 'Everybody does damage control' while another 'only specialized teams do damage control'.  each giving a different bonus for how to handle damage to the ship.

2. Formation vs. Group vs. solo bonuses to initiative or gunnery

3. This faction trains to absorb damage, that faction trains to avoid damage.

*I don't have all the answers, I'm not a game developer.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Alan Grant

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2239
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #32 on: 16 December 2022, 05:35:49 »
I recommend starting a new thread Cannonshop. Otherwise it feels like a bit of a hijack of this one.

Cannonshop

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10594
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #33 on: 16 December 2022, 08:21:12 »
I recommend starting a new thread Cannonshop. Otherwise it feels like a bit of a hijack of this one.

Yah, good point...or I could just drop the subject, because it's a digression, and offer an apology for going off topic.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Tyler Jorgensson

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2890
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #34 on: 21 December 2022, 21:58:05 »
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/aerospace/in-response-to-a-question-the-luxury-class-dropship/

My response to the thread: i had my opinions earlier in the thread: NOT a Leopard but my 'ideal' Carrier.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1830
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #35 on: 22 December 2022, 12:03:29 »
-Need to be spheroid; It gives more armor on the heavier tonnage than Aerodyne. It doesn't expected to be an active combat force either. Other than its cargo capacity it must spend everything for its own safely.
-Something durable enough to withstand at least two full capital weapon battery shots for all sides - I mean, all sides are need to have at least 1,400 armor points. Else withstand only one full capital battery(at least 700 armor points) if it is lance/Level II transport.
-Also spamming LAMS to cut down the enemy Capital Missiles.
-A few AA guns on the left space, and only allowed AA guns are energy weapon grop to avoid any sign of ammunition explosion. Better if it's Pulse Laser, for its accurate shot gives the better chance to harrass the enemy ASFs.
-Need to be fast as well, at least 5/8 is required to deliver them fast with minimum enemy counterattack. Better if 7/11.
-Enough spare cargo space.
-Evenly divided doors, and assign most doors on ASF Bays due to their role of interceptor in a pinch if the ship has both ground unit bay and ASF bay - usually ground forces are only leave the ship once, but ASFs are constantly leave and return again and again.
-At least one Field Kitchen.
-At least one MASH.
-Better if you have any Comm-Scanner or Satellite Imager for provide tactical advantage to your wings.
-Also better with Naval C3, for you may call for the help if the enemy is close to you.
-If you have friendly relation with ComStar or you are Clans, and it's more than Level II transport, add a HPG is not a bad idea too.
-Finally, more than enough Life Boat and Escape Pods, enough to use every single crews, bay personnel and the pilots of the units it carries. Better if all the Life Boat/Escape Pods in a ship could carry twice of the all the crews(include bay personnel and pilots).
« Last Edit: 22 December 2022, 12:15:42 by PuppyLikesLaserPointers »

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13200
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #36 on: 03 January 2023, 19:32:25 »
I would probably double the size of the Leo in order to add 1-2 Shuttles, bump the speed to 5/8 to outrun things that want to kill you & keep up with Assault Fighters, & add some Cargo space.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37623
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #37 on: 03 January 2023, 20:05:44 »
Not a bad precis at all...  8)

Giovanni Blasini

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7223
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #38 on: 03 January 2023, 21:03:09 »
You know, you could turn a Danais into a small carrier, with its integral two small craft, by converting some of its cargo tonnage to add six aerospace fighter bays.  Swap the 10 second-class passenger berths normally used for your small craft crews to 22 steerage quarters for the fighter pilots, techs, and shuttle crews, and you're still left with 760 tons of cargo.  That's potentially more cargo per fighter than the entire cargo bay on a Leopard CV.  Compared to canon carrier DropShips, only the SLDF Titan has more tons of cargo per fighter, though the Clan Carrier class comes close.

If you still feel that's not enough, you could instead drop the two small craft.  In fact, that might work better, working from the standpoint that you're converting the existing boat bay to carry six fighters instead of two shuttles.  Keep the passenger quarters as second-class and add two more to the existing ten, and you're at 1186 tons of cargo, nearly that of the SLDF Titan, on a 75 million C-Bill DropShip.  That's an astoundingly cheap escort carrier.

If you insist on having some guns, the Trojan refit of the Danais works as a base, adding two second class quarters, leaving you with cargo reduced to 991 tons.  That's still a respectable amount of cargo for a small carrier DropShip.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37623
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #39 on: 03 January 2023, 21:08:06 »
How much does a Leopard CV run again? ???

Giovanni Blasini

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7223
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #40 on: 03 January 2023, 21:22:21 »
How much does a Leopard CV run again? ???

It's 168 million C-Bills for the 2581 version, and 221.5 million for the 3054 version.  Even the Trojan, which is armed, is only around 144 million.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13200
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #41 on: 03 January 2023, 21:24:57 »
You know, you could turn a Danais into a small carrier, with its integral two small craft,

Funny you suggest the Danais, I was thinking of something like it or the Union but I wanted to make it faster (5/8) so I just said "double the Leo".
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37623
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #42 on: 04 January 2023, 04:24:10 »
75 million does sound astoundingly low for a DropShip of that size.

Giovanni Blasini

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7223
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #43 on: 04 January 2023, 05:06:15 »
75 million does sound astoundingly low for a DropShip of that size.

It all comes down to the cost mulitpliers.  Weapons cost money, and the Danais doesn't have any weapons at all.  The net effect is that the Danais ends up being literally the cheapest DropShip in the game, coming in around 2.4 million C-Bills cheaper than a Manatee class cargo-carrier DropShip which, despite not having weapons, has a large number of heat sinks.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Minemech

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #44 on: 04 January 2023, 17:45:54 »
I generally follow the idea that the carrier may support, or be part of an assault ship squadron, but is not to act as such a ship itself. If it were to have naval weapons, I would go for capital over sub but that is unlikely. Since you are aiming for a light ship, do an aero.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37623
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #45 on: 04 January 2023, 18:57:17 »
I'd think point defense wouldn't be too bad, but you're right about the multipliers... they're literally the highest in the game.

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13200
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #46 on: 04 January 2023, 19:15:11 »
I tend to arm my custom droppers w/ a combo of MLs & AMS w/ a small selection of longer ranged guns
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37623
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #47 on: 04 January 2023, 19:40:11 »
Not a bad approach at all!  8)

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29029
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #48 on: 09 January 2023, 13:05:46 »
I feel like we're Feature bloating back into a larger Carrier Vessel, here.   :P

But that is the thing, the most valuable commodity in BattleTech is the drop collar . . . why would you waste one to carry a paltry number of ASF?  If operating solo, a six ship 'squadron' is going to struggle to maintain a BARCAP on patrol with maintenance let alone flight crew rest- unless you are going to double up on pilots which runs contrary to BT organization.  Further, nothing says the carrier always has to be full, but it should be able to transport a significant number of combat parasites through jump IMO. 

Puppy has some good points, but I would have a couple of questions for role . . .

Do you intend for this DS to operate solo- IE patrol on it's own?  is it intended just to operate along with a fleet?  Is it intended to escort landing forces and put down on the planet?  Will this DS need to board/inspect anything on it's patrol- IE customs & interdiction duties?

I think it should be a Spheriod, as pointed out Aerodynes have self-defense and landing issues.

I think it should mix ASF cubicles and Small Craft cubicles.

I think flight crew & support should be given regular quarters to extend the patrol range- the cubicle included quarters can be overflow or storage IMO.  Throw some crates of SPAM where the pilot would normally bunk and let the jokes ensue.

I think cargo & fuel storage are going to be almost as important as the ASF cubicles- this is what lets you set a aggressive operational tempo and stay out longer.

I am not opposed to ammo based weapons on the carrier, their magazines can carry 'extra' supplies of munitions for the ASF/SC compliment.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37623
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #49 on: 09 January 2023, 19:13:28 »
The "free" bay quality quarters can house prisoners or rescued personnel.  ;)

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29029
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #50 on: 09 January 2023, 22:35:00 »
Sure, but until you have those items the quarters make good storage.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13200
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #51 on: 10 January 2023, 12:21:37 »
Not every DS has to be massive to support a limited collar invasion fleet.

1.  If they are going to invade, the house will gather a big enough fleet to account for smaller ships.
2.  Sometimes a small ship is ideal for special operations.  (Leopard, Fury)
3.  Smaller ships are still quite useful w/o ever touching a JS collar in that they can do system sized operations.  (See above + Leo-CV, Gazelle, Buccaneer)
   IE.  A double sized Interdiction & Patrol ship that combines the LEO-CV & Intruder might be ideal for system patrols & shipping interdiction checks & doesn't need to move a Wing/Regiment.
4.  For the cost of some of those massive DS w/ the insane C-Bill modifier you can drop down to a smaller ship class & use the savings to buy a JS.
5.  As for flight crew & marine quarters, I'm inclined to do that on WS & really large DS but for something that is doing system patrol that will stop off at Stations & Planetary bases often, I don't see it as needed at all.

I'm not saying I want my regiment transported by 27 Leopards, but having a Trio of them to split up a company into 3 lance sized special objective/distraction targets isn't a bad idea either.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29029
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #52 on: 10 January 2023, 12:45:49 »
Not every DS has to be massive to support a limited collar invasion fleet.

1.  If they are going to invade, the house will gather a big enough fleet to account for smaller ships.
2.  Sometimes a small ship is ideal for special operations.  (Leopard, Fury)
3.  Smaller ships are still quite useful w/o ever touching a JS collar in that they can do system sized operations.  (See above + Leo-CV, Gazelle, Buccaneer)
   IE.  A double sized Interdiction & Patrol ship that combines the LEO-CV & Intruder might be ideal for system patrols & shipping interdiction checks & doesn't need to move a Wing/Regiment.
4.  For the cost of some of those massive DS w/ the insane C-Bill modifier you can drop down to a smaller ship class & use the savings to buy a JS.
5.  As for flight crew & marine quarters, I'm inclined to do that on WS & really large DS but for something that is doing system patrol that will stop off at Stations & Planetary bases often, I don't see it as needed at all.

I'm not saying I want my regiment transported by 27 Leopards, but having a Trio of them to split up a company into 3 lance sized special objective/distraction targets isn't a bad idea either.

1-  Collars are still the most limited thing, if you can carry a two Leopards or a Union & cargo DS the latter is a infinitely better choice.  No air/water crossing invasion ever complained about bringing too much stuff.

2-  Smaller ship?  get a Small Craft

3-  Why I pointed out the dropship did not need to maintain a full compliment (capability vs actual use) . . . I was also not recommending a replacement for a Vengence, but rather something 10-20 ASF as a better practical size, though it would depend on OP answers.  If you are on patrol you cannot operate long with a BARCAP up with 6 fighters . . . 4 on 8 off as a cycle?  Maintenance alone is going to mess with that rotation let alone crew fatigue.

4-  Cost in military procurement is rarely if ever a objection.  Once again, not talking about a Vengence or Colossus, just something larger than a Leopard.

5-  How is your ship patrolling if you are stopped off in the main planet's orbit or tied up to stations?  A patrolling ship would need some sort of marines for boarding & inspections, and it would be better to give them quarters rather than use bays due to the efficiencies- same with flight crews, especially if you break the BT mold and have a Blue/Gold flight crew for each ASF (or combat Small Craft).
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13200
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #53 on: 10 January 2023, 18:47:18 »
3-  Why I pointed out the dropship did not need to maintain a full compliment (capability vs actual use) . . . I was also not recommending a replacement for a Vengence, but rather something 10-20 ASF as a better practical size, though it would depend on OP answers.  If you are on patrol you cannot operate long with a BARCAP up with 6 fighters . . . 4 on 8 off as a cycle?  Maintenance alone is going to mess with that rotation let alone crew fatigue.

5-  How is your ship patrolling if you are stopped off in the main planet's orbit or tied up to stations?  A patrolling ship would need some sort of marines for boarding & inspections, and it would be better to give them quarters rather than use bays due to the efficiencies- same with flight crews, especially if you break the BT mold and have a Blue/Gold flight crew for each ASF (or combat Small Craft).

BARCAP is something a Warship does w/ all of it's fighters.  Or at least a full DS Squadron with a wing+ of fighters.
A single Leo-CV wouldn't likely have a BARCAP operating 24/7.  (or at all)
The Leo itself is what is doing the patrol, the 6 fighters are the reaction force if something comes up.
At best 1-2 pilots would run a rotating "Ready-5" (or 10) each shift with fighter(s) prepped (armed/fueled) but not in the cockpit the entire shift.
We are talking about your own system after all, not an enemy system.


Every patrol has an end point.
US Naval vessels go out for a few months & then end up back in port.
Something like a Leo-CV would patrol some area (jump point, freighter route, space station yard, etc etc) for X-amount of time, then come back for to a base to refuel the DS & give the crew a day+ to stretch legs while a different ship went out.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37623
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #54 on: 10 January 2023, 19:22:53 »
4 on/8 off?  What kind of sadist are you? ???

Seriously, the US Navy (that singularly unsympathetic institution) never went below 5 and dime.  Subs settled on 6 on/12 off (unless you were qualifying, of course...  ::)).

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29029
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #55 on: 10 January 2023, 22:16:06 »
Lol, I would have referred to you on that . . . worst shift I did for a week was 4 & 4 . . . which sucked because you could be sitting and waiting in convoy then finally moving & setting up for a hour or two.  Then again, that section chief was a Marine . . .

Hellraiser- fine a CAP, and if on alert yeah they would have another pair on ready 5.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13200
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #56 on: 10 January 2023, 23:45:04 »
Hellraiser- fine a CAP, and if on alert yeah they would have another pair on ready 5.
Any of the CAPs is going to be flown by a larger group is my point.

Each of those patrols is designed for being flown in an area where combat is "likely" or at least a possibility on any given day.
Your flying them when your in open waters or off the coast of a hostile nation.

The Leo-CV example is a patrol in their own system.
The CV is in itself, the CAP, it flies out away from a station or base or along a route looking for anything that shouldn't be there but 99% of the time won't find anything, because its in the home system.

If an Aegis w/ its 18 Fighters & 4 Dropships is the "Carrier" of a taskforce (or even a Fox w/ its 12 & 5) and the Vengeance is a Light/Escort Carrier, the Leo CV is a Frigate/Destroyer with a single Helepad deck on the back.
That helo can support combat actions maybe or do some SAR but it isn't doing a full time patrol because there is just that one helo.

That is how I see the LEO-CV.  The Fighters are essentially added firepower when it is patrolling solo.
That single squadron might participate in CAPs when its part of a larger taskforce & the load is carried by all available ships, but, I don't see it running a "Full Time" CAP of any kind.

Like I said, at best I'd think they would have a pair of fighters "prepped" for every shift & maybe 1 of the 2 pilots actually in the cockpit while the other is on call & the remaining 4 are "off duty" but can be called up if something serious arises.

Meanwhile the 2 on duty "can" actually launch & do a patrol when the ship senses something approaching or wants to do a fly by on a check point w/o getting in too close with the DS.
For example, if a Mining station on an Asteroid is part of what they patrol, the fighters might do a visual inspection pass while the DS is out Long Weapons range or fully out of range.


3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37623
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #57 on: 11 January 2023, 04:24:36 »
Lol, I would have referred to you on that . . . worst shift I did for a week was 4 & 4 . . . which sucked because you could be sitting and waiting in convoy then finally moving & setting up for a hour or two.  Then again, that section chief was a Marine . . .
*snip*
There's a reason we call that kind of rotation "port and stupid"...  ::)

I am Belch II

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10221
  • It's a gator with a nuke, whats the problem.
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #58 on: 12 January 2023, 21:36:42 »
Lots of fighters, and some good anti fighter defence, and the ability to run if dedicated warships get close.
Walking the fine line between sarcasm and being a smart-ass

theagent

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 345
Re: What would you want in a dedicated CV?
« Reply #59 on: 13 January 2023, 10:50:36 »
What do you NEED?

Okay, hear me out.

what does a Squadron of ASF operating from a Carrier need?

We're talking fuel, spares, maintenance and deck crew (and spaces), plus carrier crew, plus detection range and communications to coordinate over long distances, plus support for the fighters to extend their range and operating radius, because if the enemy can get in striking range of your carrier, you've done something horribly wrong.

The primary WEAPON of a CV, is its air wing.  That is the whole and sole purpose of the carrier, everything else is tertiary, or better handled by another dropship.

This isn't to say that bad things don't happen, and it's good to have point defenses for leakers who get through, but if you're trying to use a carrier as a combat asset of its own, you've already lost the thread (and will likely lose the conflict.)

YOur main angles should be, then:

1. Adequate support for your embarked air-wing(s).  This is fuel, food, spare parts, bunk space and so on-your carrier is an airbase, equip it as such.

2. Adequate support for your carrier's crew-this means fuel, spare parts, and bunk space, to keep the ship running and allow you to support your embarked air wing.  (does no good to have a carrier if you can't keep the decks pressurized or feed them.)

3. Adequate detection range and mobility to avoid being isolated and engaged by enemy forces.  Ideally in the dreaded defensive situation, the enemy should be asking "Where did all these fighters come from??" not "Why haven't you hit their carrier with our naval PPCs yet?"

4. Adequate to minimal protection from enemy fire-if you're positioning your carriers close enough to the action that they're taking fire, you did it wrong, but...incidents happen.  Weapons should be focused on point defenses only-your striking power is the Air Wing, not your deck guns. Armor should be cheap, minimal stuff that doesn't cost a lot to replace, but isn't thick enough to encourage members of the brotherhood of the Randy Sheep to blunder into the thick of enemy fire seeking glory.

That, after all, is why you have the air wing-their job is to blunder into the thick of fire, your job is to fix the damage to them, refuel them, rearm them, and send them out to do it again.

5. Common parts.  The Carrier's own systems (Propulsion, mainly) should be easy to source, maintain and replace using common components found on commercial or large-batch military production models that are also easier to replace than something custom that can be lost with the destruction of a single factory.  Avoid imported components whenever and wherever possible-other nations can o this thing called 'embargoes' which can cripple your naval programs if you don't have the ability to ignore them.

You're applying too much real-world logic, dude & not following The Rule of CoolTM!!

Kidding, just kidding.

I actually agree with you 100% on this.

I would also add a couple of other items to the list:
  • Is your carrier acting in a strike role, or in an escort role?  This will have an effect on the Thrust of the engines you put into the design.  A CV designed to escort other ships -- whether cargo DropShips/JumpShips or an actual battle squadron of WarShips -- should at least be as fast as the slowest DS/WS it's meant to escort, but doesn't need to be that much faster.  For example, if the primary DS/WS designs you're going to escort are 3/5 designs, then ideally your escort-mission CV should be at least 3/5, maybe 4/6, but 5/8 or faster is going to be wasted.  Your air wing is still your primary "weapon" but is geared to providing anti-ASF cover for the ships you're escorting, with a secondary anti-ship role. 

    A "strike" carrier, on the other hand, you do want to have better sped, because you'll want that maneuverability edge for deploying & recovering your air wing (as your primary "weapon"), as well as to help avoid enemy ASF units.
  • How many ASF/Small Craft you carry is going to affect the rest of your design features as well.  Something inspired by WW2-era escort carriers, for example, would have a fairly small air wing (6-12, maybe 18 ASF tops, with at most 2 Small Craft), so probably shouldn't have a very heavy weapons suite.  Armor/speed is going to depend more on which role it's going to be ("escort" or "light strike").  Something more like a heavy carrier (54 or more ASF, 6 or so Small Craft) is large enough that regardless of the speed, you'll want to have some halfway decent armor coverage, & definitely load up on the point-defense weapons as much as possible...because that's an expensive asset that you want to protect.

 

Register