Naval Pictures VII: Underway, Shift Colors!

[Cannonshop]

With all that smoke, I was wondering if it was Special-K until I read the text...  ^-^

How could you think that? the smoke is only coming from ONE place!!

[Daryk]

Touché!  ;D

[Sabelkatten]

I still think the funniest part is how todays technologically advanced navies are finding it hard to make an "electric ship", and here is one from the 1920s... ::)

[HobbesHurlbut]

I still think the funniest part is how todays technologically advanced navies are finding it hard to make an "electric ship", and here is one from the 1920s... ::)

Turbo Electric was interesting.

[glitterboy2098]

to be fair, electric drive was a lot more finicky back then, and prone to malfunction, so mainly got used for niche applications (like submarines). it is a bit more mature tech now. but the main issue is that there really isn't any existing pool of experienced personnel for working with it, either in design or in use. because we haven't used an electric drive in half a century and one for surface ships in closer to a century, so all the people with hands on knowledge are retired, senile, or dead.

[Colt Ward]

to be fair, electric drive was a lot more finicky back then, and prone to malfunction, so mainly got used for niche applications (like submarines). it is a bit more mature tech now. but the main issue is that there really isn't any existing pool of experienced personnel for working with it, either in design or in use. because we haven't used an electric drive in half a century and one for surface ships in closer to a century, so all the people with hands on knowledge are retired, senile, or dead.

So . . . instead of Space Cowboys, the movie would be called Ocean Rangers?

[Daryk]

Heh... the main problem I'd see with an electric drive is the finger pointing and arguing about who's problem it is when it breaks (It's mechanical! It's electrical!)…  ::)

[chanman]

Swede

[Sabelkatten]

to be fair, electric drive was a lot more finicky back then, and prone to malfunction, so mainly got used for niche applications (like submarines). it is a bit more mature tech now. but the main issue is that there really isn't any existing pool of experienced personnel for working with it, either in design or in use. because we haven't used an electric drive in half a century and one for surface ships in closer to a century, so all the people with hands on knowledge are retired, senile, or dead.

AFAIK neither Lexington nor Saratoga were noted for problematic engines? Thought they did need a lot of extra crew to care for them.

[marauder648]

One of Fisher's Follies, the Courageous, a 'large light cruiser' as he described it to get the funding when large ship construction was on a hold. All 22,000 tons of 'light cruiser' that is.

[DoctorMonkey]

I believe HMS Courageous and her sister ships could have doubled their armour protection by pasting the blueprints for the ships on the outside of them

[Liam's Ghost]

For some reason I've always had a particular fondness for the Furious as originally planned, just for the shear escalating layers of failure it embodies. A hull already too light to handle long term service or heavy weather. A main armament that has no chance of hitting anything but a stationary target because you only have two guns. And also, that main armament will probably break the ship if you actually use it.

That one should have been named the Hilarious.

[Nightlord01]

I still think the funniest part is how todays technologically advanced navies are finding it hard to make an "electric ship", and here is one from the 1920s... ::)

My Navy has three now...

None are actual combatants, but all of our amphibs are electric podded propulsion.

Believe it of not, electric propulsion is perhaps the most dangerous on the planet at the moment, high power AC is not good for the human body.

[marauder648]

And also, that main armament will probably break the ship if you actually use it.

It kinda did, when they fired the 18-inch gun in tests and practice there was reportedly a 'rain' of sheared bolts inside the ship from the recoil shock. If she'd been fitted with 2 of the she'd have probably been twisting herself out of true.

[Wrangler]

It kinda did, when they fired the 18-inch gun in tests and practice there was reportedly a 'rain' of sheared bolts inside the ship from the recoil shock. If she'd been fitted with 2 of the she'd have probably been twisting herself out of true.

I always wonder why they were lacking additional barrels.

[hoosierhick]

Well, at least the Courageous and her sisters gave the RN three large fast hulls to convert into aircraft carriers.

[Colt Ward]

Ship missing in the Bermuda Triangle was found . . . sort of . . .





Apparently the locals knew of the wreck and gave it their own name without ever finding out the name of the ship around 35 years ago . . . but a ocean explorer found it matched up to the last known position of the Cotopaxi from a mayday signal.



Funny thing is, the articles I have read gave no mention of why she sank but they do say bodies or lifeboats were never found.

[kato]

France is buying proper OPVs to replace the retired P400 patrol boats that were way undersized for the role:



At 80m length and 1300t full load they're virtually identical in size to the d'Estienne d'Orves corvettes that were rebuilt for OPV duties in the European Union EEZ. Six ships planned for commissioning 2022-2025. Armament consists of a remote-controlled 20mm mount, the aviation deck is for VTOL drones up to 700 kg.

The forward flotillas they will be based with (Noumea, Papeete, La Reunion) typically each consist of:

• usually four large vessels for patrol:
• 1 Floreal class frigates as combat vessels (second added depending on current state of affairs)
• 2 P400 class patrol vessels (to be replaced with two of these new ones)
• 1 B2M multi-mission ship (mostly for logistics)
• commonly around six smaller vessels for the base:
• two vedette patrol boats (below 20m length; one typically for the gendarmerie)
  
• two small harbor tugs
• two or three motorized supply barges

With the retirement of most P400 around 2012 two of the three flotillas currently run with other OPVs, usually non-purpose built ships acquired for light patrol.

The fourth overseas flotilla (Martinique & Guyana) replaced the frigate and offshore patrols with a unitary class of three 60m OPVs in 2017, the second step of the overseas renewal after the commissioning of the B2Ms in 2015-2016.

The overseas bases additionally each maintain:

• a batallion of light infantry as ground forces, typically reinforced by a single specialized combat company (paratroopers or foreign legion)
• an aviation component consisting of two CASA C235-200 transport aircraft, a number of Falcon F200 Gardian patrol aircraft, two Dauphin helos for SAR and the helo for the frigate.

[Wrangler]

Maybe because it's different times.  However, that OPV isn't very impressive to me.   I guess it's role it plays as a police ship or some kind coast guard support vessel?
I always seems weird that Navies do this kind design, when they already have the Coast Guard like vessels.

[Daryk]

That's... what OPVs are?  ???

[Wrangler]

That's... what OPVs are?  ???

Offshore Patrol Vessel, it's essentially a replacement for the Corvette in some navies.

They can be like Coast Guard Cutter, but their slightly different.  Large nations use them, essentially name change from Patrol Ship.   PT Boat, but undergunned in comparison to something from 1940s or earlier.  Their not always built by warship standards, but civilian ones.

[Daryk]

The navies that do this don't really have the USCG-like organizations that would have those things, though...

[kato]

Offshore Patrol Vessel, it's essentially a replacement for the Corvette in some navies. They can be like Coast Guard Cutter, but their slightly different.

In France the patrol task is split laterally:
- The Gendarmerie Maritime (with about 40 inshore patrol boats) is responsible for territorial waters only,
- The Marine Nationale (with about 18 offshore patrol vessels and the 6 surveillance frigates for the task) is responsible for the high seas.

Most french- and spanish- and portuguese-speaking countries nowadays split the responsibility the same way, and hence are also the predominant countries where OPVs can be found in their navies. Similar to most other European countries some tasks are further split out to other agencies, in particular customs, distress support and infrastructure maintenance ships.

In the USA and a handful countries patterned similarly (Japan in particular) these functions are all collected in one agency, but that's by far not the norm.


Distribution of Gendarmerie Maritime ships:




Most of them are Vedette Cotiere de Surveillance Maritime:



20m long, about 42 tons full load displacement; can run 25 knots, range is 600 nm (400 at full speed). Armament consists of a single 7.62mm MG.
Also have a slip ramp for a 4.9m RHIB, above which a platform can be installed for VERTREP.

[Wrangler]

I kind of think that the nature of navies are changing or have changed. The importance for maritime protection is diminishing in the size of navies as a whole. I believe it's because you have better aircraft and you have satellites. It's not because Maritime traffic doesn't need to be policed. Its more i think that flagged martime vessels dont need to be escorted against other nations trying to do something to it.

So since the nature of merchant traffic on the high seas of changed they don't need that many big ships protecting them anymore. They do to project Force of Arms only once in awhile. And most Nations now because of the shrinking budgets they can't even afford that. That's why I only the biggest Nations have actually sizable navies bigger than a frigate on the high seas and more than just maybe four of laarge frigates at that.

[kato]

The importance for maritime protection is diminishing in the size of navies as a whole.

Compared to when?

The current numbers of avisos for patrol in the French Navy are the same number since the late 70s. Actually it's rising slightly since then. For mid-decade in each case:

1950s (38): 4 offshore patrol vessels, 34 WW2 sloops
1960s (34): 4 aviso-escorteurs (wartime ASW role), 16 WW2 sloops, 14 general patrol boats
1970s (34): 9 aviso-escorteurs (wartime ASW role), 25 general patrol boats
1980s (26): 9 aviso-escorteurs (wartime ASW role), 17 general patrol boats
1990s (22): 6 surveillance frigates (wartime ASuW role), 3 aviso-escorteurs (wartime ASW role), 13 general patrol boats
2000s (22): 6 surveillance frigates (wartime ASuW role), 16 general patrol boats
2010s (26): 6 surveillance frigates (wartime ASuW role), 9 avisos (wartime ASW role), 11 general patrol boats
2020s (27): 6 surveillance frigates (wartime ASuW role), 9 avisos (wartime ASW role), 9 new OPVs, 3+ general patrol boats

The "general patrol boats" in that were pretty much always lightly armed - anywhere from a single 20mm to two 40mm at most.

[ANS Kamas P81]

While you may not need to protect convoy shipping from hostile countries (at least, right now, god bless that doesn't change) there's still piracy in a few large areas of the water.  Having a fast OPV able to travel along the freight courses and potentially intervene is still important.

[Dragon Cat]

USS Independence, damaged in atomic bomb tests, in San Francisco Bay being prepared for sinking after efforts to wash off the radioactivity were unsuccessful, January 1951.

[Colt Ward]

Interesting that the flight deck is buckled in the center but the bow did not . . . also a pretty big crumple zone on the stern port quarter.

[kato]

Floreal class surveillance frigate Vendemiaire doing her job during nuclear testing in 1995.

[Daryk]

I kind of think that the nature of navies are changing or have changed. The importance for maritime protection is diminishing in the size of navies as a whole. I believe it's because you have better aircraft and you have satellites. It's not because Maritime traffic doesn't need to be policed. Its more i think that flagged martime vessels dont need to be escorted against other nations trying to do something to it.

So since the nature of merchant traffic on the high seas of changed they don't need that many big ships protecting them anymore. They do to project Force of Arms only once in awhile. And most Nations now because of the shrinking budgets they can't even afford that. That's why I only the biggest Nations have actually sizable navies bigger than a frigate on the high seas and more than just maybe four of laarge frigates at that.

Have you followed anything going on in the C5F AOR lately?  ???