BNC-3B Banshee (SW Era Binary Laser)

[Giovanni Blasini]

Thought experiment on swapping the AC/5 in your typical Banshee 3E with a blazer cannon.  The end result actually drops damage potential, since firing both the PPC and blazer at the same time is a bad idea, but gives it a headcapper with better range than an AC/20 and no ammo concerns.  The crippling heat of the Blazer, though, could have kept it from production.


Banshee BNC-3B

Mass: 95 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-E-A
Production Year: 2815
Cost: 9,668,328 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,589

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 380 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Binary Laser Cannon
    1  PPC
    1  Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                     145 points                9.50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                380                      41.00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             16                        6.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 RL
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 238                 15.00

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     30           40       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  15       
                                           L/R Torso     20           30       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  10       
                                             L/R Arm     16           21       
                                             L/R Leg     20           26       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small Laser                                  HD        1         1         0.50
PPC                                          RT        10        3         7.00
Binary Laser Cannon                          LT        16        4         9.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 38

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      8    Points: 16
4          2       2       1       0      4     1   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

[Daryk]

I like it, but I'm a Blazer fanatic.  If you do fire the Blazer and PPC, sticking to the PPC for two rounds or skipping fire for one will cool you off.  Honestly, you can't reach a shutdown roll in a single round unless you're on fire, so it beats a number of stock 3025 designs.  Another thing to consider is Blazer Cannon plus AC/2 vice PPC plus AC/5.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Thought about an autocannon and blazer cannon, but I was worried that cut the ranged damage too much, and swapping the AC/5 for the blazer cannon was near perfect.

[Daryk]

Eh, it's a Banshee... it's not like it had a lot of firepower to begin with...  ^-^

[Giovanni Blasini]

Because I am occasionally a madman, how would this work swapping the PPC for a medium laser, adding three jump jets?

I considered dropping a heat sink and the PPC for four heat sinks, but that seemed a bit worrisome.  The medium laser, in conjunction with the small, gives you something to cool off with when needing to lay off the blazer due to heat.

[Daryk]

Hmmm... an interesting idea, but I think the jumping angle is better covered by a Highlander variant, and something this heavy really should have something that reaches beyond 15 hexes, even if it is 4/6...

[Giovanni Blasini]

Hmm, don't have any 'Mech design software handy since I'm operating from phone at Disneyland this weekend, but a Highlander would be easy: take the HGN-733P, drop the PPC and two heat sinks for a Blazer, and you're done. In fact, IIRC, the -733P still has two tons of SRM ammo, so dropping one ton towards the Blazer would let you keep 18 SHS.

[Daryk]

Dropping a ton of SRM ammo lets it get to 19 HS:

Code: [Select]

Highlander HGN-733BC

Mass: 90 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-E-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 8,047,260 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,867

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 270 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Binary Laser Cannon
    1  LRM-20
    1  SRM-6
    2  Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                     138 points                9.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                270                      14.50
    Walking MP: 3
    Running MP: 5
    Jumping MP: 3 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT                                   6.00
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             19                        9.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 279                 17.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     29           41       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  17       
                                           L/R Torso     19           28       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  10       
                                             L/R Arm     15           30       
                                             L/R Leg     19           38       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Lasers                              RT        6         2         2.00
LRM-20                                       LT        6         5        10.00
Binary Laser Cannon                          RA        16        4         9.00
SRM-6                                        LA        4         2         3.00
@LRM-20 (18)                                 LT        -         3         3.00
@SRM-6 (15)                                  LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 18

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      9    Points: 19
3j         3       3       1       0      4     2   Structure:  7
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1

[Giovanni Blasini]

While I'd be tempted to drop down to two tons of LRM ammo for one more heat sink, that's really good...

[Daryk]

Yeah, 19 lets it fire the Blazer (or everything else) and jump for no heat.  Dropping a single Medium Laser from an alpha cuts the heat build up below the first shutdown roll.  If you're willing to risk the shutdown roll, it can alpha and then jump away to cool off every other turn.

[wesharrisb]

Four Binary Lasers and the ability to fire all four of them if you don't mind dying.
Enjoy.

Code: [Select]

Awesome "Battle Fry Taxi II" AWS-BFT2

Mass: 80 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-X-A
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 12,445,650 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,763

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    4  Binary Laser Cannons
    1  Medium X-Pulse Laser
    1  ER Small Laser
    1  Radical Heat Sink
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   122 points                4.00
    Internal Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 LA, 3 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine:             Light Fusion Engine          240                       9.00
    Walking MP: 3
    Running MP: 5
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             13(26)                    3.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 247                 15.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     25           38       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  12       
                                           L/R Torso     17           26       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     13           26       
                                             L/R Leg     17           34       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Small Laser                               HD        2         1         0.50
Medium X-Pulse Laser                         CT        6         1         2.00
Binary Laser Cannon                          RT        16        4         9.00
Radical Heat Sink                            RT        0         3         4.00
Binary Laser Cannon                          LT        16        4         9.00
Binary Laser Cannon                          RA        16        4         9.00
Binary Laser Cannon                          LA        16        4         9.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      8    Points: 18
3          3       3       0       0      4     3   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA



[Daryk]

Interesting, but not exactly a 3025 design...

[wesharrisb]

Battletech has need of time travel plot devices at times.

[Brother Jim]

For the OP's design replace the PPC with an LRM10 with 2 tons of ammo?

Code: [Select]

Type/Model:    Banshee* BNC-3B
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3025
Config:        Biped BattleMech
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          95 tons
Chassis:       Star League XT Standard
Power Plant:   380 GM Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets:     None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type:    Starshield Standard
Armament:     
  1 LRM 10
  1 Binary Laser(Blazer)*
  1 Small Laser
Manufacturer:  Star League Weapons Research
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  Dalban Commline
Targeting & Tracking System:  Dalban HiRez-B

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Banshee* BNC-3B
Mass:          95 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  145 pts Standard              0      9.50
Engine:        380 Fusion                    6     41.00
   Walking MP:   4
   Running MP:   6
   Jumping MP:   0
Heat Sinks:     16 Single                    1      6.00
 (Heat Sink Loc: 1 RL)
Gyro:                                        4      4.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                5      3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H    R: Sh+UA+LA+H   16       .00
Armor Factor:  240 pts Standard              0     15.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9     
   Center Torso:             30         40     
   Center Torso (Rear):                 17     
   L/R Side Torso:           20      30/30     
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):            10/10     
   L/R Arm:                  16      21/21     
   L/R Leg:                  20      26/26     

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 10                 RT      4   24      4      7.00
  (Ammo Locations: 2 RT)
1 Binary Laser(Blazer)*  LT     16           4      9.00
1 Small Laser            HD      1           1       .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         21          41     95.00
Crits & Tons Left:                          37       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        9,590,328 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    1,488 (old BV = 1,187)
Cost per BV2:      6,445.11
Weapon Value:      1,074 / 1,074 (Ratio = .72 / .72)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 14;  MRDmg = 9;  LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2:      MP: 4,  Armor/Structure: 6/7
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/1,  Overheat: 1
                   Class: MA;  Point Value: 15
                   Specials: if



[wesharrisb]

Binary Dragon, that sort of sticks to the original weapons layout, minus rear firing weaponry.

Code: [Select]

Binary Dragon BN-DR-X

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-X-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 4,948,480 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,303

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Binary Laser Cannon
    2  Medium Lasers
    1  Rocket Launcher 10 PP
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      99 points                6.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      19.00
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             17                        7.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RL
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 168                 10.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           21       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  10       
                                           L/R Torso     14           19       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  7         
                                             L/R Arm     10           19       
                                             L/R Leg     14           19       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rocket Launcher 10 PP                        RT        3         1         0.50
2 Medium Lasers                              RA        6         2         2.00
Binary Laser Cannon                          LA        16        4         9.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 36

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 13
5          2       2       1       0      3     1   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA



[Giovanni Blasini]

Huh. LRM + Blazer Banshee works out pretty well, actually.

And while I mainly do Succession Wars designs with Blazers, I'm OK with other eras, too.

[CrazyGrasshopper]

Let's face it: other than BNS-3S, IntroTech Banshees are bad assaults. The main problem of 4/6 Banshees that they do not know what they want to do with their mass. They probably want to punch the hell out of their opponent but they are not armed appropriately for a close fight. And the suggested weapon swap is still confusing. I'd rather go with the boring Blazer+ML spam, but in this case, I do not see great benefits in not doing PPC+ML spam instead. Or you can think of mixing in SRMs, if ML spam feels too munchy, they go well with 10-point punches. But doing so will require placing ammo into an under-armored 'Mech with lots of internal structure.

As for Highlander tweaks, they make more sense, since Highlanders are probably the best-balanced assaults. By the way, at first I thought it was the AC/20 variant being modded and was surprised you had 3 tons of LRM ammo and not 2. You could drop that ton of ammo for another heat sink. I can see benefits in such design, but I think that the canon -733P is almost good as is. If I could change anything on it, I'd rather take 2xSRM-4s with 1 ton of ammo instead of 1xSRM-6 with 2 ton of ammo.

[Snimm]

I take a standard Banshee and replace all its weapons with 2 larges, an SRM 6, and 18 heat sinks.  No range beyond 15 hexes, but it's not bad for the era.

But I like playing around with high-heat designs.

[Don Lunardi]

It's an interesting take, admittedly not one I had considered even with tinkering a fair bit with 3025 Blazer refits myself.  But yes, the PPC and Blazer just don't synergize all that well here.  While LRMs are a possibility, it also seems to not make the best use of the Banshee having the ability to get up close where its 95 tons can be put to the best use.  I would add my vote for replacing the PPC for a mix of SRMs & Lasers to provide increased damage up close, while the Blazer is more for engaging enemies while closing in.

Also, a Battlemaster refitting the PPC with a Blazer can use this same concept relatively well

[Giovanni Blasini]

It's an interesting take, admittedly not one I had considered even with tinkering a fair bit with 3025 Blazer refits myself.  But yes, the PPC and Blazer just don't synergize all that well here.  While LRMs are a possibility, it also seems to not make the best use of the Banshee having the ability to get up close where its 95 tons can be put to the best use.  I would add my vote for replacing the PPC for a mix of SRMs & Lasers to provide increased damage up close, while the Blazer is more for engaging enemies while closing in.

Also, a Battlemaster refitting the PPC with a Blazer can use this same concept relatively well

Yes, yes it can.

[Don Lunardi]

Thought about an autocannon and blazer cannon, but I was worried that cut the ranged damage too much, and swapping the AC/5 for the blazer cannon was near perfect.

The more I mull it over, the more this seems to be the way to go with this if one wishes to retain the original BNE-3E flavor.  It also would make more sense from a logistical standpoint seeing as the shortage of PPCs in the FWL would likely cause them to swap out the PPC before the AC/5.  You would have to strip out a couple heat sinks to make it work, but even then the combined heat curve is far more workable than the BL + PPC combo.  As an added plus, you now have a big gun that can be used when the Banshee gets into physical range, which is something the 3E (and 3M model, for that matter) struggled with.

[Snimm]

Since this thread never quiiiiiite got closure, I went forward and modified the BNC-E to swap out the PPC, just so we could see what it looks like:

Code: [Select]

Banshee BNC-3EB
IS experimental
95 tons 
BV: 1,474
Cost: 9,523,052 C-bills

Movement: 4/6
Engine: 380
Heat Sinks: 14
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 145
Armor: 240/293
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               30       40
Center Torso (rear)                 17
Right Torso                20       30
Right Torso (rear)                  10
Left Torso                 20       30
Left Torso (rear)                   10
Right Arm                  16       21
Left Arm                   16       21
Right Leg                  20       26
Left Leg                   20       26

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
AC/5                            LT     1
Small Laser                     HD     1
Blazer Cannon                   RT    16

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
AC/5 Ammo                       LT    20

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Standard                       None
Standard                       None



And for the sake of completeness, here's the BNC-3S swapping out one of the two PPCs and 2 of the RT medium lasers for the Blazer.  The 21 heat sinks don't exactly keep it cold, but retaining the two tons of AC ammo helps with the damage and heat curve in between Blazer firings.

Code: [Select]

Banshee BNC-3SB
IS experimental
95 tons 
BV: 1,660
Cost: 8,714,745 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Engine: 285
Heat Sinks: 21
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 145
Armor: 240/293
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               30       40
Center Torso (rear)                 17
Right Torso                20       30
Right Torso (rear)                  10
Left Torso                 20       30
Left Torso (rear)                   10
Right Arm                  16       21
Left Arm                   16       21
Right Leg                  20       26
Left Leg                   20       26

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
AC/10                           LT     3
PPC                             RT    10
SRM 6                           RT     4
Medium Laser                    RT     3
Medium Laser                    RT     3
Small Laser                     CT     1
Small Laser                     HD     1
Blazer Cannon                   RA    16

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
AC/10 Ammo                      LT    10
AC/10 Ammo                      LT    10
SRM 6 Ammo                      RT    15

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Standard                       None
Standard                       None


[Giovanni Blasini]

Yeah, Blazer and AC/5 work a lot better together, don't they?

And, wow, that Banshee-S...

[Dave Talley]

I kinda like it this way, granted I would normally kill the SRMs for more sinks but this works too


Banshee BNC-3S
IS experimental
95 tons 
BV: 1,827
Cost: 8,866,845 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Engine: 285
Heat Sinks: 26
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 145
Armor: 240/293
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso               30       40
Center Torso (rear)                 17
Right Torso                20       30
Right Torso (rear)                  10
Left Torso                 20       30
Left Torso (rear)                   10
Right Arm                  16       21
Left Arm                   16       21
Right Leg                  20       26
Left Leg                   20       26

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
PPC                             LA    10
PPC                             RT    10
SRM 6                           RT     4
Medium Laser                    RT     3
Medium Laser                    RT     3
Medium Laser                    RT     3
Medium Laser                    RT     3
Small Laser                     CT     1
Small Laser                     HD     1
Blazer Cannon                   LT    16

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
SRM 6 Ammo                      RT    15

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
Standard                       None
Standard                       None

[Don Lunardi]

Yeah, Blazer and AC/5 work a lot better together, don't they?

And, wow, that Banshee-S...

Yup, and it helps keep the refit from being just an overgrown Blazer Battlemaster.  It's all about style points, after all  8)

And yeah...Blazer Banshee-S...Oi...