Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon  (Read 15604 times)

GreekFire

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #30 on: 19 September 2020, 15:12:38 »
While that's fair, those things are also almost completely worthless against the Prime and (unless you have that Long Tom) A.  The cannons are much cheaper than I expected, BV wise, but they're still not 'free'.

On the flip side, even if a Hierofalcon player chooses to play conservatively, the Artillery Cannon can still be worth its weight in gold if said player decided to bring battle armor as well.

Though I think that, at this point, I'm mostly just wanting people to use Arty Cannons more. They're great and rather flexible weapons that are easy to fit into most forces.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #31 on: 19 September 2020, 17:24:25 »
On the flip side, even if a Hierofalcon player chooses to play conservatively, the Artillery Cannon can still be worth its weight in gold if said player decided to bring battle armor as well.

Though I think that, at this point, I'm mostly just wanting people to use Arty Cannons more. They're great and rather flexible weapons that are easy to fit into most forces.

I wish we got a Saladin or SM1 with one . . . then again, I think those need all the BFG flavors anyway.

One thing I did not see mentioned is how well a Elemental carrier is this?  are the LR weapons all in the arms?
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wantec

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #32 on: 19 September 2020, 18:47:22 »
I wish we got a Saladin or SM1 with one . . . then again, I think those need all the BFG flavors anyway.

One thing I did not see mentioned is how well a Elemental carrier is this?  are the LR weapons all in the arms?
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mbear

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #33 on: 21 September 2020, 09:34:58 »
Speaking of using artillery against the Hierofalcon, does the LCAF have many TAG equipped units for Arrow IV rounds? That would be a pretty cruel brick in the face.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #34 on: 21 September 2020, 11:45:19 »
Given the sheer difficulty of hitting a Heirofalcon with a TAG, I think you'd be better off using those Arrows to kill something they might actually hit, like Loki IIs or Turkinas. Leave the Heiros to pulse lasers, AE, or old fashioned weight of fire.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #35 on: 25 April 2023, 12:01:54 »
Just wanted to add that the IWM miniature of this mech is superb. It's a top 5 all-timer for me, and I've been collecting for over 20 years.

As far as design goes, the A Config with the Clan Large Pulse Laser and ability to jump 10 hexes puts this design up there with the Flamberge 2 as a design that can frustrate even the most seasoned players. Perfect for Clan Jade Falcon!

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #36 on: 26 April 2023, 04:56:50 »
So in addition to using artillery to kill this thing (BTW, there I suggest using infantry there, lots of ways to get modifiers making you hard to hit) I'd suggest 'Mech Mortars as they always have the option to use indirect fire, which ignores TMM.

GreekFire

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #37 on: 26 April 2023, 06:59:33 »
I'd suggest 'Mech Mortars as they always have the option to use indirect fire, which ignores TMM.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #38 on: 26 April 2023, 07:51:14 »
... indirect fire, which ignores TMM.

100% untrue.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #39 on: 17 May 2023, 05:34:21 »
What is it then that it ignores? Because I know it ignores something.

mbear

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #40 on: 17 May 2023, 06:24:26 »
What is it then that it ignores? Because I know it ignores something.

Anti-missile systems is the only thing I can think of.
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GreekFire

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #41 on: 17 May 2023, 07:22:52 »
They have a munition type, Airburst, which is AoE and does ignore TMM.
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smdvogrin

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #42 on: 17 May 2023, 07:31:14 »
What is it then that it ignores? Because I know it ignores something.

You can ignore TMM if you're firing Airburst/Anti-Personnel ammo and targeting the hex, but that's because it's AOE, not because it's firing indirect.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #43 on: 17 May 2023, 09:05:04 »
If you successfully TAG a target, you ignore target movement modifier for attacks made against that target with Semi-Guided LRMs that round.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #44 on: 17 May 2023, 10:12:15 »
All of the above are true, all of them are in addition to the ability to fire indirect, not because of it. :thumbsup:
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #45 on: 17 May 2023, 10:18:31 »
And in the case of Semi-Guided missiles, happen regardless of whether or not you're firing indirectly.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #46 on: 23 May 2023, 09:27:36 »
Also the Hiero replaces the Gyrfalcon in a move away from the overly stylized I AM JAAAAAAAAAAADE FALCOOOOON!!!! designs that filled out Malvina's touman, whilst the Ion Sparrow and Jade Phoenix are clear moves away from Khan Omnicidal's ideals, whilst also being very Jade Falcon at their core.
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wantec

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #47 on: 23 May 2023, 11:35:25 »
Also the Hiero replaces the Gyrfalcon in a move away from the overly stylized I AM JAAAAAAAAAAADE FALCOOOOON!!!! designs that filled out Malvina's touman, whilst the Ion Sparrow and Jade Phoenix are clear moves away from Khan Omnicidal's ideals, whilst also being very Jade Falcon at their core.
I wouldn't really call the Hierofalcon a replacement for the Gyrfalcon, they serve two different roles and are at opposite ends of the medium weight class. The Gyrfalcons are all snipers, twin ERLL with your choice of UAC2, LB 2-X, or TSEMP. Now it does have a partial wing, jump jets, and decent speed similar to the Hierofalcon. But most Hierofalcon configs are medium to short range brawlers that typically have some long range reach. The only sniper is the C with the ERPPC and cRAC/2. A quick and easy way to see this is looking at Alpha Strike cards. The Gyrfalcons all have the same consistent damage value through short, medium, and long. The Hierofalcons (except the C as mentioned) have heftier short & medium range damage values, but then the long range damage drops.

If anything, I'd almost the Hierofalcons are an upgrade on the Eyrie. It's the same 10-ton difference (35 vs 45) as the Gyrfalcon comparison (45 vs 55), but the weapons configurations (medium to short range combat) are a much closer analog.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #48 on: 24 May 2023, 11:29:11 »
So fessin' up here, I designed and wrote this thing. I originally made it with standard fixed jump jets because I was getting tired of  IJJ on everything, but I was overruled. I am not responsible for inflicting the A config one players, but the rest are mine.

One of the most interesting things about the design process was that I was unaware of the existence of the Jade Phoenix at the time I made the Hierofalcon, yet I somehow made a Prime config that perfectly apes the Prime Jade Phoenix. As the Hierofalcon was intended to be a smaller Jade Phoenix anyway, this worked out. Just one of those funny little things.


wantec

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #49 on: 24 May 2023, 13:49:08 »
So fessin' up here, I designed and wrote this thing. I originally made it with standard fixed jump jets because I was getting tired of  IJJ on everything, but I was overruled. I am not responsible for inflicting the A config one players, but the rest are mine.

One of the most interesting things about the design process was that I was unaware of the existence of the Jade Phoenix at the time I made the Hierofalcon, yet I somehow made a Prime config that perfectly apes the Prime Jade Phoenix. As the Hierofalcon was intended to be a smaller Jade Phoenix anyway, this worked out. Just one of those funny little things.
Oh sweet. Maybe the Jade Phoenix Prime was made to ape the Hierofalcon Prime.
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BrianDavion

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #50 on: 24 May 2023, 14:26:20 »
I suspect it's  more just a case of convergent evolution.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #51 on: 24 May 2023, 14:56:33 »
There's only so many ways you can go with a jumpy wing-thingy.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #52 on: 24 May 2023, 15:33:01 »
Oh sweet. Maybe the Jade Phoenix Prime was made to ape the Hierofalcon Prime.

No, the Jade Phoenix already existed, I just didn't know about it. Mimicking the Prime was pure coincidence.

wantec

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #53 on: 24 May 2023, 16:55:28 »
No, the Jade Phoenix already existed, I just didn't know about it. Mimicking the Prime was pure coincidence.
Ah gotcha. That happened to me a few times with the Rec Guides working on Omni configs, my initial ideas duplicated some that had already been proposed & rejected for various reasons.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #54 on: 24 May 2023, 17:42:45 »
Ah gotcha. That happened to me a few times with the Rec Guides working on Omni configs, my initial ideas duplicated some that had already been proposed & rejected for various reasons.

With BT's variation and unit library, this happens all the time.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #55 on: 25 May 2023, 05:45:15 »
Oh sweet. Maybe the Jade Phoenix Prime was made to ape the Hierofalcon Prime.

As Jal mentions, the Jade Phoenix already existed. In fact, it is the oldest original creation in the RecGuide series, having rested in my "for future reference" pile since at least 2015. When I was made aware of the creation of a slew of Wolf IlClan Mechs in around 2018 and then combined them all for the "Cutting Edge" portion of the RecGuide, it was clear that the Wolves needed an equally representative foil in the Falcons.

Though most of the units had been fleshed out in development, the Hierofalcon was a rare case of Jal being tasked with both writing and unit creation. Now, this didn't entail complete freedom, I Set some basic parameters - but I am not sure it was more than mass and the wings and maybe basic speed. I was floored when this happened:

One of the most interesting things about the design process was that I was unaware of the existence of the Jade Phoenix at the time I made the Hierofalcon, yet I somehow made a Prime config that perfectly apes the Prime Jade Phoenix. As the Hierofalcon was intended to be a smaller Jade Phoenix anyway, this worked out. Just one of those funny little things.

I can confirm the parallels of the Primes were complete coincidence! And this is what reaffirmed my idea to tie the winged CJF Mechs together at the hip. In the editorial process, basically all submissions were tweaked for whichever the multitude of possible reasons.

So fessin' up here, I designed and wrote this thing. I originally made it with standard fixed jump jets because I was getting tired of  IJJ on everything, but I was overruled. I am not responsible for inflicting the A config one players, but the rest are mine.

No, all of it was yours. The major tweak was un-fixing the jump jets and adapting one config for ijj (which may have changed your baby beyond Recognition) and another for ground mvmt. That way, it was thematically linked to the Jade Phoenix. A few things that come to my mind in that regard:
- the Hierofalcon also did influence the Jade Phoenix. That design, otherwise untouched since 2015 (this side of newer configs D+E) received a tweak in itself, with a slight adjustment of the torso armor allocation - to synch up with the Hierofalcon's!
- the jj tweak, like the absolute majority of all dev edits, was an aesthetic choice, and not one born of a desire for optimization. There are enough examples in the RecGuides with fixed jet Omnis, be they third party creations (Stormwolf) or my own (Ion Sparrow).


An unrelated tidbit was the Hierofalcon's name. It was basically the most difficult unit to name, and is more zoological than the norm. While it was on a short list, we initially discarded it because it was too long and difficult to combine with an attribute or color, as is generally seen on many Clan Omnis. Well, it jumped right back top when I saw the illustration. With IMO similar lines to the Black Lanner, the family label that includes gyrfalcons and lanners seemed super appropriate; and Hierofalcon sounds fairly fantasy-ey without an added attribute, anyway.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Hierofalcon
« Reply #56 on: 21 June 2023, 22:32:11 »
So fessin' up here, I designed and wrote this thing. I originally made it with standard fixed jump jets because I was getting tired of  IJJ on everything, but I was overruled. I am not responsible for inflicting the A config one players, but the rest are mine.

One of the most interesting things about the design process was that I was unaware of the existence of the Jade Phoenix at the time I made the Hierofalcon, yet I somehow made a Prime config that perfectly apes the Prime Jade Phoenix. As the Hierofalcon was intended to be a smaller Jade Phoenix anyway, this worked out. Just one of those funny little things.


This was the mech the Jade Falcons needed the most. A truely ass kicking medium mech that was thier own design. I love it! I makes my opponents/friends scowl every time I talk about it. The Hierofalcon A has tormented people in our Alpha Strike games.