Author Topic: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport  (Read 1500 times)

HobbesHurlbut

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CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« on: 09 October 2023, 14:44:44 »
Source: https://twitter.com/metallurgent/status/1711335709385031825

Code: [Select]
CH-61A Copperhead
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: E/X-X-X-D

Weight: 40 tons
BV: 138
Cost: 6,097,778 C-bills

Movement: 10/15(20) (VTOL)
Engine: 215 ICE

Internal: 20
Armor: 16
       Internal  Armor   
--------------------------
Front         4      4   
Right         4      4   
Left          4      4   
Rear          4      2   
Rotor         4      2   



Equipment                   Loc 
---------------------------------
Lift Hoist/Arresting Hoist   BD 
VTOL Jet Booster             RR 
Cargo (1 ton)                BD 
Quirks should be;
Easy to Maintain
Ubiquitous
and I would have suggested Rugged but it seems to be limited to 'Mechs only?

What does this have to offer over the Tonbos? Speed. Even with only a lifting capacity of 20t, 200kph on VTL jet booster is pretty fast.
For those who don't want to go to the twitter post, I copied the text and attached the picture below
"The CH-61A Doublehead is a venerable heavy lift platform that remains in wide circulation even into the 2000s. A bare-bones skycrane, the Doublehead is easy to maintain, robust, and boasts outstanding lifting capacity, making it an attractive and affordable Anvil transport."
« Last Edit: 09 October 2023, 15:02:11 by HobbesHurlbut »
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead/Copperhead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #1 on: 09 October 2023, 15:01:58 »
Done as a Support Vehicle VTOL

Code: [Select]
CH-61A Doublehead Support Vehicle VTOL
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-C

Weight: 48 tons
BV: 118
Cost: 870,675 C-bills

Movement: 14/21 (VTOL)
Engine: 0 Fuel Cell
BAR Rating : 7

Internal: 10
Armor: 13
       Internal  Armor   
--------------------------
Front         2      3   
Right         2      3   
Left          2      3   
Rear          2      2   
Rotor         2      2   



Equipment                   Loc 
---------------------------------
Lift Hoist/Arresting Hoist   BD 
Cargo (1 ton)                BD 
2 tons of fuel for range of 492 km
Armor tech F/Structural Tech D/Engine Tech F
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Sabelkatten

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #2 on: 10 October 2023, 03:07:54 »
Except...

30 ton VTOL
7.5 tons internals
12 ton ICE 10/15
1.5 tons booster
1 ton armor
6 tons 2x Lift Hoist
2 tons cargo
.
.
.

>50% extra capacity.

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #3 on: 10 October 2023, 17:04:29 »
Except...

30 ton VTOL
7.5 tons internals
12 ton ICE 10/15
1.5 tons booster
1 ton armor
6 tons 2x Lift Hoist
2 tons cargo
.
.
.

>50% extra capacity.
I wasn't going for the optimized design. My aim was to be accurate to the vehicle as depicted on the image as much as I could. Thats why I did it second time as a Support Vehicle.
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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #4 on: 10 October 2023, 20:44:44 »
I'd argue that based on the given image an accurate design would include at least two lift hoists

Sabelkatten

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #5 on: 11 October 2023, 03:58:27 »
I wasn't going for the optimized design. My aim was to be accurate to the vehicle as depicted on the image as much as I could. Thats why I did it second time as a Support Vehicle.
Can’t really argue with the support vehicle design, but...

The twitter post says 24 tons empty, 48 tons max. So...

24 tons
6.5 internals
125ICE, 11/17
Supercharger Jet Booster
2xLift Hoist
3.5 tons left for other stuff like armor (just short of making 12/18!  :angry: )
« Last Edit: 15 October 2023, 09:06:42 by Sabelkatten »

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #6 on: 11 October 2023, 15:23:45 »
The twitter post says 24 tons empty, 48 tons max. So...
Yeah, and with the 48ton SV, the single lift hoist is 24 tons carrying capacity without imposing a movement penalty.
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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #7 on: 11 October 2023, 17:08:54 »
That adds up to 72 tons loaded.
Doublehead visually has multiple lifting cables so there's no need to limit the design to just one cable, hence the 24 tonner with 2 hoists.

RifleMech

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #8 on: 14 October 2023, 19:50:56 »
VTOLs can't use Superchargers. They can mount VTOL Jet Boosters. The VTOL Jet Boosters also double the VTOL's Cruising MP so if you want a max of 18 MP, you want an engine capable of 9/14[18].  You could also factor in Overdrive too, if you want. That would lower the engine to 7/11[14/18] and free up more tonnage.

Also since lift hoists aren't that well defined, the Doublehead could utilize two cables as part of a single Lift Hoist. That would fit with the 24 tons empty, 48 tons loaded.

Daryk

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #9 on: 15 October 2023, 06:32:03 »
As a bonus, Jet Boosters don't roll for failure... ;D

RifleMech

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #10 on: 15 October 2023, 13:51:39 »
As a bonus, Jet Boosters don't roll for failure... ;D

That is a nice bonus. There is a +3 to avoid side slipping and can't do any special maneuvers. I think that's good trade off. Fly high enough and you won't slide into anything and with no failure you avoid becoming a lawn ornament.

Sabelkatten

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #11 on: 15 October 2023, 14:40:22 »
With 24 tons of cargo my 24-ton design still moves 6/9/12 (unless I've missed some change to the cargo carrying capacity).

But you know... How about a quirk: "Cargo space includes lift hoist gear".

32-ton VTOL (fractional)
6.4 + 3.2 + 1.6 tons internal
7 tons 105ICE 9/14
1 ton Jet Booster
1.75 tons Armor (10/5/6/2)
8 tons cargo
3 tons Lift Hoist

So, with the internal cargo this can carry a maximum of 24 tons of cargo at 9/14/18. Empty weight is 24 tons. The quirk lets it hoist all 24 tons.

Daryk

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #12 on: 15 October 2023, 15:51:53 »
That math doesn't sound right... Lift Hoists should let you carry more than that? ???

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #13 on: 15 October 2023, 17:02:45 »
That math doesn't sound right... Lift Hoists should let you carry more than that? ???
He's saying as a fanmade quirk.
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Daryk

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #14 on: 15 October 2023, 17:48:27 »
I'm saying quirk or no, the cargo carrying capacity should be more...

Sabelkatten

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #15 on: 18 October 2023, 01:57:48 »
8 tons cargo bay (with a quirk that allows this capacity to be added to Lift Hoist).

16 tons with one Lift Hoist (so it can hoist a total of 24 tons, and doesn't suffer movement penalties since it's not carrying more than 50% over vehicle tonnage and using a Lift Hoist).

If the cargo is attached directly to the hull - not using the Lift Hoist - it can carry a total of 40 tons at speed 5/8/10.

Daryk

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #16 on: 18 October 2023, 03:22:31 »
40 tons is more like it.  Looks like there's room for two more Lift Hoists too... :)

Sabelkatten

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #17 on: 18 October 2023, 17:03:26 »
The original post on Twitter specifically said "24 tons empty, 48 tons full load". The 32-ton version was an attempt to match those numbers without speed loss.

The practical way - IMHO - is the 24-ton version I posted above. Thought in CBT you probably want to make it 25 tons to carry units of that weight.

Daryk

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #18 on: 18 October 2023, 18:38:06 »
24 tons empty/48 tons full load sounds like two Lift Hoists to me... Hmmm...

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #19 on: 18 October 2023, 19:23:20 »
You still can't ignore the movement penalty if you carried stuff on lift hoist that's more than half of the carrying unit's tonnage right?
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Daryk

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #20 on: 18 October 2023, 19:49:26 »
I'll have to check that, but it's too late tonight... plenty of time for others to check... :)

Sabelkatten

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #21 on: 19 October 2023, 03:49:53 »
You still can't ignore the movement penalty if you carried stuff on lift hoist that's more than half of the carrying unit's tonnage right?
That's what Sarna says at least.

That's why I cludged together the 32-ton version, it actually matches the 24 tons empty/48 tons loaded specification without speed loss. But I much prefer the 24-ton VTOL with two Hoists; speed 11/17 with 12 tons cargo, 6/9 with 24 tons. Or modified for "CBT standard":

Code: [Select]
JetCrane fast cargo helicopter

Mass: 25 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: VTOL
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-C-B-A
Production Year: 2750
Cost: 588 958 C-Bills
Battle Value: 161

Power Plant:  135 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 118,8 km/h
Flanking Speed: 183,6 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    None
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      15 points                2,50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                135                       9,00
    Cruise MP:  11
    Flank MP:   17
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0,00
Control Equipment:                                                         1,50
Lift Equipment:                                                            2,50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  40                  2,50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     10       
                                          Left/Right   10/10       
                                                Rear     8         
                                               Rotor     2         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Lift Hoists                                BD        0         2         6,00
Infantry Compartment (1.0 tons)              BD        0         1         1,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      1    Points: 2
11v        0       0       0       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: ENE, EE

It can pick up a small vehicle and carry it off at 11/17, or it can lug a Commando at 6/9. Enough armor to tank a PPC and space for a squad of techs/cargo handlers.


Daryk

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Re: CH-61A Doublehead Fast Superheavy VTOL Transport
« Reply #22 on: 19 October 2023, 18:15:49 »
Total Warfare, page 137 (under "Lift Hoists", which starts on page 136):
Quote
Units suffer no movement penalty when carrying cargo up to half their tonnage. When carrying cargo greater than half its tonnage, reduce the unit’s Walking/Cruising MP by 1. (Also refigure the Running/Flank MP, multiplying the new Walking MP by 1.5 and rounding up.)