Author Topic: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)  (Read 641 times)

Cipher

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Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« on: 14 May 2024, 11:27:58 »
Conceived during the some of the darkest days of the Capellan Confederation, the Advocator was designed to be an even lower cost version of the Vindicator, with highest possible degree of parts commonality with the larger design.
Had it been mass produced, the ADV-1R would have made use of the LTV and GM 160 rated fusion engines used in the Locust instead of the rarer 180 rated fusion engine of the Vindicator.

The Advocator's design process would begin in the early 3010s, in the aftermath of the unveiling of the Merlin and the resulting political pressure for new Capellan 'Mech designs. With the Capellan Confederation Armed Forces having steadily lost ground in the previous century, there were significant industrial and resource limitations to consider.
This environment of frugality meant that one particular Ceres Metals Industries team put focus on attempts to modify existing designs to use less materials and to require less shipping, rather than any expensive and time consuming attempt to create a truly new 'Mech.

In the end, the Vindicator was chosen as the development platform being an in-production design while still possessing significant firepower for its relative size.

Fundamentally, the chassis of the Advocator was little more than a crudely shaved down Vindicator one, with an additional reduction in internal spaces to further save weight. This wasn't without consequences, as the later declassified period documents and reports recovered by the Federated Suns Department of Military Intelligence indicate.

The most common complaint from testing staff was that the Advocator's cockpit was cramped and had inferior ergonomics than the parent design, which would result in worse survivability in case of armor breach and greater fatigue for the pilot respectively. The test prototypes also had issues with ejection safety, despite the medium laser having been relocated since the housing for it hadn't been actually eliminated entirely.

The CCAF evaluations did not consider said characteristics to be a significant problem, however. In the final evaluation report before design finalization 3019, these issues were 'addressed' as follows; "-while the test design has lower available volume for the MechWarrior than standard, the use of slimmer and smaller personnel can compensate for this minor issue. Additionally, it is the professional opinion of the testing board's medical specialists that no serious long term health concerns should arise with the ADV-1X even with personnel of baseline stature, based on currently available data."

Maintenance of the prototypes was also more time consuming though still not particularly difficult, as the tighter spaces required more effort to work in. Compounding this, the legs of the initial ADV-1X models proved prone to stress cracks and bending, as the amount of subtracted material proved excessive.

After few variations of the leg skeletal structure, a sufficiently robust design was discovered via brute force trial and error as calculating the exact thickness proved unexpectedly unreliable. The design team would claim that it had been caused by the differences between each Vindicator production batch, presumably due to shoddy quality control. The emergency production quotas set in 2983 requiring shortcuts in quality control are a probable cause in hindsight, based on other unrelated reports and documents on the overall readiness state of the CCAF circa 3020s.

Nonetheless in 3021, the intended production variant emerged from design and testing and was given the official designation of Advocator ADV-1R

Initial preparations were made in late 3025 to begin conversion of the Locust production line in Ares to switch over to the Advocator by 3035, with optimistic estimates of an annual production of 24-32 units by 3031.  Unfortunately for the CCAF, these plans would never come to fruition. Mass production of the Advocator would be foiled not by technical issues or any critical flaws in the finalized design, but by the disaster that was about to fall on the Confederation. 

Following the Fourth Succession War, with every 'Mech plant needed to replenish the hollowed out shell of the Capellan military, the conversion of the Locust production line was cancelled due to the disruption it would've caused to the desperately needed supply of war machines. Only a few years later with the proliferation of the Helm Memory Core and the reintroduction of Star League technologies designs such as the Vindicator would fall out of favor all-together, utterly dooming the Advocator into historical irrelevance.

With the mass production plans shelved, the Advocator would remain limited perhaps a dozen of pre-production and proof-of-concept units produced around a fifteen year period. This obscure design would eventually become extinct by 3050s, with all known examples used up as substitute replacements for Vindicators.

Much like the Vindicator, the Advocator had a design top speed of 64.8 km/h which would have given it similar mobility as most heavy BattleMechs of the era. Four jump jets gave it the same jump capability of 120 meters as the Vindicator, while eight tons of armor resulted in an armor protection marginally lesser than its predecessor. Using same weapons as the Vindicator, the ADV-1R would have ditched the problematic head mount for the Ceres Arms laser and instead would have mounted the medium laser in the left arm, eliminating the small laser entirely. This was intended to correct the unfavorable ejection characteristics of the Vindicator and to further save resources and funds.

The Advocator carried the Ceres Arms Smasher PPC in its right arm, with the innovative cooling jacket intact, while the Sian/Ceres Jaguar LRM-5 was mounted on the 'Mech's left torso sustained by one ton of ammunition.
With only fourteen standard heat sinks to cool the long range weaponry, the use of jump jets while firing both weapons would rapidly accumulate heat. For close range self-defence, the Advocator relied solely on the Ceres Arms medium laser and physical attacks.
Code: [Select]
Advocator ADV-1R

Mass: 40 tons
Chassis: Ceresplex IV
Power Plant: GM 160
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Jump Jets: Anderson Propulsion 30
     Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Starshield
Armament:
     1 PPC
     1 Medium Laser
     1 LRM 5
Manufacturer: Ceres Metals Industries
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: CeresCom Model 21-Rs
Targeting & Tracking System: C-Apple Churchill
Introduction Year: 3021
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-D-D
Cost: 2,816,613 C-bills


Type: Advocator
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Introductory)
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 939

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    4
Engine                        160 Fusion              6
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sink                     14                      4
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  128                     8

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            12        18   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               10        15   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  5     
     R/L Arm                 6         10   
     R/L Leg                 10        18   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Heat Sink                LL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 LL        1        -       0.5   
2 Jump Jet               CT        2        -       1.0   
3 Heat Sink              RT        3        -       3.0   
Medium Laser             LA        1        3       1.0   
3 Heat Sink              LT        3        -       3.0   
LRM 5 Ammo (24)          LT        1        -       1.0   
LRM 5                    LT        1        2       2.0   
Heat Sink                RL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 RL        1        -       0.5   
PPC                      RA        3        10      7.0   

Features the following design quirks: Rugged (1 Point), Cramped Cockpit.

   

Notes: Basically a slightly suckier and cheaper Vindicator that makes use Locust engines that should be lying around in every Great House military gathering dust.
Should be pretty easy to mass produce for the Capellans. I may or may not have foisted pair of these on my friend as a 'reward' by the Capellans.
« Last Edit: 01 June 2024, 04:01:35 by Cipher »

Daryk

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #1 on: 14 May 2024, 18:20:32 »
Not bad, though I'd probably trade half the LRM ammo for the last half ton of armor... ;)

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #2 on: 14 May 2024, 18:32:29 »
Sticking to non-fractional accounting, I kind of actually like this more than the canon Vindicator thanks to shared logistics with the Locust.  You could even pair it with Whitworths as your poor army's Archer equivalent, extending out parts commonality more.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Daryk

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #3 on: 14 May 2024, 18:37:32 »
Building on that theme, you could probably make a poor-man's Blackjack too... :)

DevianID

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #4 on: 14 May 2024, 23:56:11 »
My favorite bit is using the Locust engine to get another cheap trooper to the frontline.  Feels exactly like what would happen if the 4th succession war dragged on... vindicator production would worsen kinda like how some t34 factories sent out much worse t34s.

Cipher

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #5 on: 16 May 2024, 06:58:39 »
Despite the Advocator ADV-1R using the Locust's engine, the possibility of future supply or transport issues meant that alternative engine solutions were also considered. The humble GM 120 fusion engine, the most common engine in the Inner Sphere at the time, was one of the engines tried. In December of 3024, funds and the small amount of resources needed were allocated for the engine swap.

The initial prototype was swiftly completed, as it was effectively just a ADV-1R with a lighter and lower output engine. No major issues stemmed from this change, though testing report does state that slight initial sluggishness was noticeable when trying to run from a standstill. The saved weight meant that more weapons could be added if desired, though with mobility reduced to that of a Highlander, any new potential variant mounting the GM 120 wouldn't be a mainline 'Mech.

Perhaps most crucially the lower stress placed on the chassis and joints meant that, in theory, parts that had failed the standards set for the ADV-1R could be instead be used to build this new slower model. CCAF overseers quickly realized the utility of this, and authorization for two more prototypes were given. These new machines and the modified prototype would increase the short range firepower significantly over the original Advocator with the intent of creating a viable garrison 'Mech.

The five-tube LRM launcher and its ammunition were replaced with a four-tube Holly launcher and a single ton of ammo. Two additional medium lasers would be installed, one in the centre torso and another in the right torso. This was done to simplify the power and data feeds and to spread out the short range weaponry in case of battle damage. An additional half a ton of armour was added, bringing the total to eight and half tons. Fourteen heat sinks were mounted, though unlike the ADV-1R more had to be placed in the side torsos. The Ceres Arms Smasher PPC and the left arm mounted Ceres Arms medium laser were kept as is.

Mild overheating was observed when jumping and firing all short range weaponry, but this was accepted given the more than tripled firepower. The benefits of being able to squeeze even more use out of parts that otherwise would need to be recycled were obvious enough to all involved parties, and so the initial ADV-1X2 designation gave way to the final ADV-1L. The slow acceleration behavior wasn't fixed yet, but the design team believed that with enough time they could alter the myomer layout to compensate for the weaker engine.

Had the mass production of the Advocator occurred, it would've likely resulted in the humble Urbanmech being at least partially supplanted by the -1L variant. Boasting greater speed, protection and firepower, the slow Advocator would have been an effective unit for defending urban environments without sacrificing that much of the long range punching power. With a top speed of 54 kph and a reduced jump distance of 90 metres, these machines would've been able keep up with typical assault weight formations.

With the cancellation of the Locust factory conversion, ADV-1L would also die out with only three machines built.


Code: [Select]
Advocator ADV-1L

Mass: 40 tons
Chassis: Ceresplex IV
Power Plant: GM 120
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: Anderson Propulsion  30
     Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Starshield
Armament:
     1 PPC
     3 Medium Laser
     1 SRM 4
Manufacturer: Ceres Metals Industries
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: CeresCom  Model 21-Rs
Targeting & Tracking System: C-Apple  Churchill
Introduction Year: 3025
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-D-D
Cost: 2,745,680 C-bills

Type: Advocator
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Introductory)
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 1,004


Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    4
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sink                     14                      4
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  136                   8.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            12        18   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               10        15   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  5     
     R/L Arm                 6         12   
     R/L Leg                 10        20   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Heat Sink                LL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 LL        1        -       0.5   
Medium Laser             CT        1        3       1.0   
Jump Jet                 CT        1        -       0.5   
4 Heat Sink              RT        4        -       4.0   
Medium Laser             RT        1        3       1.0   
Medium Laser             LA        1        3       1.0   
4 Heat Sink              LT        4        -       4.0   
SRM 4                    LT        1        3       2.0   
SRM 4 Ammo (25)          LT        1        -       1.0   
Heat Sink                RL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 RL        1        -       0.5   
PPC                      RA        3        10      7.0   

Features the following design quirks: Rugged (1 Point), Cramped Cockpit, Poor Performance.


Notes: A marginally cheaper variant, using yet another common engine. This time making use of the Stinger's and Wasp's GM 120. Functionally, this would be a bigger and nominally better suburbanmech.
Pretty easy to swap out the SRM4 if you want LRM5 back. Class A refit, unless I'm mistaken?

And yeah, I had the T-34 and the like in mind when I thought about why you would make both of these.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2024, 06:14:09 by Cipher »

Daryk

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #6 on: 16 May 2024, 16:59:06 »
That would be a Class B refit, but a formal Refit Kit would make it easier.

And I'm thinking a Blazer Cannon would fit perfectly on that chassis... ;D

DevianID

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #7 on: 17 May 2024, 01:40:13 »
Sad to see the LRM go on the 3/5/3 version.  If using stinger/wasp parts, maybe 2 medium lasers, srm2, 2 machine guns, just for the lols of mounting all the stinger/wasp weapons on 1 40 ton mech?  There was a vindicator version with machine guns as I recall, so it wouldnt be too out of place for a 'suburban' Advocator.

Cipher

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #8 on: 17 May 2024, 06:11:00 »
That would be a Class B refit, but a formal Refit Kit would make it easier.

And I'm thinking a Blazer Cannon would fit perfectly on that chassis... ;D

Before the cancellation of the Advocator program in 3031, a single ADV-1X4 experimental model was built in late 3027, primary to test the payload and cooling limits of the slower design.

All weaponry except the left arm medium laser was replaced with the immensely hot and maintenance heavy Binary Laser Cannon right arm, giving this machine the most powerful energy weapon that Successor States could still produce. No less than eighteen heat sinks were installed, despite which the 'Mech would still suffer from mild heating when jumping and firing the primary weapon. Armour protection was reduced to seven and half tons. In all other aspects, the ADV-1X4 or 'ADV-1Y' is an ADV-1L.

In an restricted terrain where the jump jets could be used to pop-up from unexpected places, the ability to punch through the cockpit of any 'Mech at large laser ranges would present an enormous threat to any enemy. Ideally, this would force the opposition advance with caution as doing otherwise would risk instant death.

The single scant four page report detailing this machine notes that there were debates about replacing the backup medium laser with another heat sink or additional armour, but the 'ADV-1Y' was not finalized before the events of 3028.   

Code: [Select]
Advocator ADV-1Y (ADV-1X4)

Mass: 40 tons
Chassis: Ceresplex IV
Power Plant: GM 120
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: Anderson Propulsion 30
     Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Starshield
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
     1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon
Manufacturer: Ceres Metals Industries
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: CeresCom Model 21-Rs
Targeting & Tracking System: C-Apple Churchill
Introduction Year: 3027
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-E-D
Cost: 2,509,080 C-bills

Type: Advocator
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 887

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    4
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sink                     18                      8
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  120                   7.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            12        15   
     Center Torso (rear)               6     
     R/L Torso               10        15   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  4     
     R/L Arm                 6         11   
     R/L Leg                 10        15   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Heat Sink                LL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 LL        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                 CT        1        -       0.5   
6 Heat Sink              RT        6        -       6.0   
Medium Laser             LA        1        3       1.0   
6 Heat Sink              LT        6        -       6.0   
Heat Sink                RL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 RL        1        -       0.5   
Binary Laser Cannon      RA        4        16      9.0   

Features the following design quirks: Rugged (1 Point), Cramped Cockpit, Poor Performance.


Huh, would make for a pretty nasty little machine. The medium laser is a back up so you're not entirely harmless if you lose the big gun.



Sad to see the LRM go on the 3/5/3 version.  If using stinger/wasp parts, maybe 2 medium lasers, srm2, 2 machine guns, just for the lols of mounting all the stinger/wasp weapons on 1 40 ton mech?  There was a vindicator version with machine guns as I recall, so it wouldnt be too out of place for a 'suburban' Advocator.

While not built, the ADV-1LL was an already approved variant that would've made further use of Stinger and Wasp parts, replacing secondary weapons with those from the two 20-ton designs.

Primary intent of this sub-variant was to avoid disruption of production in the case of weapons shortages. With much of the Confederation's industry located within two jumps of their enemies, logistical issues due to enemy raids or loss of transport capacity were always a haunting prospect for Capellan planners.

The double Liao would have used the Wasp's Bical twin-tube SRM with a one ton of ammunition, mounted in the place of the Jaguar LRM launcher and its ammunition. The left arm's Ceres Arms medium laser would be removed entirely, with a pair of LFN Lindblad machine guns from the Stinger replacing it. The full ton of ammunition would've been installed in the left torso, as the location already had the necessary attachment points for an extra ammunition bin. The medium laser in the centre torso would've been an Omicron model from the Stinger, while the right torso model would've been the Wasp's Diverse Optics weapon.

Retaining the full armor and the heat sinks of the -1L, the ADV-1LL was otherwise unchanged.

While the mishmash of weapons would've complicated maintenance at the unit level, on a broader scope the sheer number of the two Bug 'Mechs would have guaranteed a steady supply of parts, even if only via battlefield salvage.


Code: [Select]
Advocator ADV-1LL

Mass: 40 tons
Chassis: Ceresplex IV
Power Plant: GM 120
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: Anderson Propulsion 30
     Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Starshield
Armament:
     1 PPC
     2 Medium Laser
     2 Machine Gun
     1 SRM 2
Manufacturer: Ceres Metals Industries
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: CeresCom Model 21-Rs
Targeting & Tracking System: C-Apple Churchill
Introduction Year: 3026
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-D-D
Cost: 2,635,080 C-bills

Type: Advocator
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Introductory)
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 942

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    4
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sink                     14                      4
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  136                   8.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            12        18   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               10        15   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  5     
     R/L Arm                 6         12   
     R/L Leg                 10        20   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                 Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Heat Sink                   LL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                    LL        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                    CT        1        -       0.5   
Medium Laser                CT        1        3       1.0   
4 Heat Sink                 RT        4        -       4.0   
Medium Laser                RT        1        3       1.0   
2 Machine Gun               LA        2        0       1.0   
Machine Gun Ammo (200)      LT        1        -       1.0   
4 Heat Sink                 LT        4        -       4.0   
SRM 2 Ammo (50)             LT        1        -       1.0   
SRM 2                       LT        1        2       1.0   
Heat Sink                   RL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                    RL        1        -       0.5   
PPC                         RA        3        10      7.0   

Features the following design quirks: Rugged (1 Point), Cramped Cockpit, Poor Performance.




Yeah, that would work as a 'oh no we've run out of parts' type of 'Mech. Plus you get anti-infantry firepower and it's easier to cool!

I wasn't sure whether to keep the LRM5 or go for SRM launcher/launchers but since my idea was for the -1L to be an urban defence oriented, the six hex minimum range would've been more of a problem IMO.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2024, 06:45:11 by Cipher »

Daryk

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #9 on: 17 May 2024, 17:23:59 »
I like the Blazer version, even if I'd have dropped a heat sink for the last ton of armor... ;D

DevianID

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #10 on: 19 May 2024, 21:39:15 »
The Advocator LL, nice.  For the Liao with a stinger/wasp production line, and no desire to send more stingers and wasps to garrisons to die.  Also, its got 2x the engine rating of an urbanmech, so its positively flying down those city streets in comparison, with more guns as well.

killfr3nzy

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #11 on: 20 May 2024, 07:46:00 »
Does the ADV-1L model earn some kind of 'Painkiller' nickname? The Pain Doll?

(ie; Advil, Panadol. ;p)

Hellraiser

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #12 on: 25 May 2024, 19:54:46 »
While not built, the ADV-1LL was an already approved variant that would've made further use of Stinger and Wasp parts, replacing secondary weapons with those from the two 20-ton designs.

No no no no no
If your going to use a Stinger/Wasp engine, you just gotta make it a DC Produced "Mini-Panther" at 30 Tons & same 4-6-4 Movement
You know, so they can both have "Mini-me's" running around.
 :wink:
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #13 on: 25 May 2024, 21:49:11 »
No no no no no
If your going to use a Stinger/Wasp engine, you just gotta make it a DC Produced "Mini-Panther" at 30 Tons & same 4-6-4 Movement
You know, so they can both have "Mini-me's" running around.
 :wink:

Challenge accepted.

Edit: And done - https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=85030.0
« Last Edit: 25 May 2024, 22:16:17 by Giovanni Blasini »
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Daryk

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #14 on: 26 May 2024, 05:24:23 »
Like it! :)

Karack Blackstone

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #15 on: 30 May 2024, 17:52:28 »
Yep, definitely going to have to consider stealing these for my future BT games given the ease of which this design shoe-horns right into the standard builds of most factions.

Seriously going to enjoy using these. What names do you want me to use to give proper credit?

Cipher

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Re: Advocator ADV-1R (Cheaper Vindicator)
« Reply #16 on: 01 June 2024, 11:09:47 »
Yep, definitely going to have to consider stealing these for my future BT games given the ease of which this design shoe-horns right into the standard builds of most factions.

Seriously going to enjoy using these. What names do you want me to use to give proper credit?

Just use the names here, if you want to credit these.

Edit: This is why I shouldn't post while feverish. Fixed the duplication.
« Last Edit: 01 June 2024, 15:52:10 by Cipher »