Author Topic: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout  (Read 900 times)

OatsAndHall

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Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« on: 15 May 2024, 12:05:05 »
I've been trying to get better about fielding a mix of weapons that check numerous boxes when I play. I don't focus as much on units anymore; I dial in on having a variety of weapons on the field. Here's what I've been putting on the table as of late:

LBX-10- such a versatile weapon
LRMs- I like my IDF
ERML or ML- you just can't go wrong here.
Standard Gauss or Clan ERPPC- 15 damage at range plus the ability to take someone's head off is a plus.
CLPL- sniping, sniping and more sniping.

House Davie Merc

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #1 on: 15 May 2024, 13:33:30 »
Everybody using I/S seems to want the Gauss Rifle for everything but
I've found the LB-10X to be far more useful in a greater variety roles.
It's lighter weight also allows it to be mounted on more mediums without
some downside.
Don't get me wrong-the Gauss is great, but the LB-10X is often an
unsung hero.
In any era past Clan invasion I consider the ER PPC to be an almost
necessary weapon for I/S forces.
YES the Clan version is better but you have to use what you've got.
The ER PPC is the most practical energy weapon to match the range
advantage of the Clanners while causing significant damage.
Other then that LRMs. Lots of LRMs.

OatsAndHall

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #2 on: 15 May 2024, 13:49:35 »
I take a Gauss or Clan ERPPC because of the 15 damage at range. They're a couple of a handful of weapons that can take a mech's head clean off at 20 hexes. The damage output is great, regardless, but we've turned the tide of many-a-game with a Gauss decapitation.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #3 on: 15 May 2024, 13:51:39 »
The Plasma Rifle: the game's first anti-everything gun.
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House Davie Merc

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #4 on: 15 May 2024, 17:34:38 »
I take a Gauss or Clan ERPPC because of the 15 damage at range. They're a couple of a handful of weapons that can take a mech's head clean off at 20 hexes. The damage output is great, regardless, but we've turned the tide of many-a-game with a Gauss decapitation.
Without Clan tech the I/S Gauss is pretty much the only long range headcapper available.
I've seen far more Gauss Rifle explosions take mechs out of the battle then I've seen
head hits from them. Even if they aren't outright destroyed by the explosion they
are usually damaged enough to seriously effect their usefulness.
IMHO the available tech base and era are an important part of what choices you make.

Canon only mechs using Inner Sphere tech can be quite limiting.
SO many I/S Gauss packing mechs have a Gauss right next to their XL Eng.   :tongue:
This common combo pushes me to the LB-10X and the ER PPC.

Daryk

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #5 on: 15 May 2024, 19:07:01 »
AOE weapons covereth a multitude of sins... ;D

Charistoph

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #6 on: 15 May 2024, 19:38:37 »
The Plasma Rifle: the game's first anti-everything gun.

Pretty much.  If you can get one, it's very nice to have.

Without Clan tech the I/S Gauss is pretty much the only long range headcapper available.

Heavy PPC says "hi".  PPC/ER PPC/Snub-nose PPC with Capacitor says, "hi".

I'd add in the Binary Laser Cannon, but I don't think it qualifies as "long range" any more than the normal Large Laser.
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Daryk

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #7 on: 15 May 2024, 19:47:35 »
In 3025 the Large Laser and Blazer Cannon do qualify as "long range", I think... :)

Hellraiser

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #8 on: 15 May 2024, 22:19:12 »
AOE weapons covereth a multitude of sins... ;D

Yeah, but they aren't tourney legal & most games I play are limited to Tourney Legal + NO Aero as the baseline to keep the volume of rules for everyone down.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #9 on: 15 May 2024, 22:26:25 »
In 3025 the Large Laser and Blazer Cannon do qualify as "long range", I think... :)
I tend to classify them as "medium" range over all.

Long = The Guns that have Minimum Ranges & Max of 18+   (And LRM tells us what is "Long", lol)   (SR of 6+)
Medium = LL/AC10  (Later Weapons w/ SR of 4-5)
Short = SRM/ML   (Its right in the name....Short-R-M)     (Range-2/3 Short)
Melee = MG/SL/Flamer   (Range-1 Short)

I created "melee" as a range since the ability to hit at SR To-Hit #s while NOT being in Kicking range of something is fairly class defining I think.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #10 on: 15 May 2024, 22:31:15 »
LBX-10- such a versatile weapon
LRMs- I like my IDF
ERML or ML- you just can't go wrong here.
Standard Gauss or Clan ERPPC- 15 damage at range plus the ability to take someone's head off is a plus.
CLPL- sniping, sniping and more sniping.

So your forces have Intro Tech, SLDF Tech, & Clan Tech all in them?
I'm thinking you play exclusively in the Republic Era or w/o faction/era limits at all?

It basically comes down to having.....
Anti-Vee
IDF
Medium Lasers  (All kinds)
Long Range Headcapper
Cheese

It's a 5 layer sandwich.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Church14

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #11 on: 16 May 2024, 00:06:49 »
Peak multipurpose weaponry for IS spec to me is an LBx10, plasma rifle, and MML. Reasonable range, reasonable damage, and you have an answer for anything. 

DevianID

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #12 on: 16 May 2024, 02:12:15 »
LRMs being an IDF weapon really cover a ton of bases.  Without resorting to advanced rules, I think every force should have some LRMs in it if its a 'take all comers' style unit.

SRMs likewise offer so many special ammo types that some SRM units are pretty much mandatory (without advanced equipment).  Infernos alone versus heavy battle armor has been a savior for me.

MMLs combine both of these things, but we dont have that many MML units, and the MML doesnt exist in all eras.  Still, the MML longbow variants are monstrously efficient since they can do so much with their flexible ammo loadouts.

Some form of Flak with range is always handy, and like stated the LB10x is a pretty great all around gun and source of flak.  AC10s with advanced ammo in later eras are also really handy, with a combo of precision/flak/flechette letting you take on a lot of different unit types.  The rifleman 3Cr and hammerhands both pack dual ac10s designed for the role, but there is a lot of quad LAC5 units that also do the same.  I also like the dual LB10x blackjack omni variant, or the dual lb5x Gargoyle Prime.

Pulse weapons, of all the energy weapons, make the most sense to me.  Yes you have less range, but Pulse accuracy is just always worth it.  You have LRMs already as the number 1 long range versatile attack, so Id rather round out a 'cover all bases' unit with 2-3 medium pulse lasers then an ER large laser/PPC.  Cause when the target is something hard to hit, only pulse lasers cover that 'base', though precision ACs are almost as good if you have a few already.

OatsAndHall

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #13 on: 17 May 2024, 08:24:39 »
So your forces have Intro Tech, SLDF Tech, & Clan Tech all in them?
I'm thinking you play exclusively in the Republic Era or w/o faction/era limits at all?

It basically comes down to having.....
Anti-Vee
IDF
Medium Lasers  (All kinds)
Long Range Headcapper
Cheese

It's a 5 layer sandwich.

Yup, our 3150 games are open-ended.Typically, I'm playing with SLDF or early Clan tech. I also have no issues snagging Intro Tech MLs or LRMs as they're cheap and effective. I love CMPL as well but I'm conservative with them.  Don't get me wrong, I'll roll out HAGs, ATMs and other more advanced weapon systems here and there. But, I'm honestly a pretty stingy player when it comes to BV. I'll usually take more units or units with better pilots over expensive weapons.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2024, 09:28:49 by OatsAndHall »

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #14 on: 17 May 2024, 08:52:19 »
Please don't forget snub nosed PPC - it's quite accurate mid range weapon consider its very long short range, while pack a punch just for six tons. For IS tech units, on the most times it's the superior replacement for LPL(ISLPL is stuck at range 10 at long range, you know), although generally it could be viewed as sidegrade. If I ever want a weapon with 10 damage and cannot afford any clantech, then it's undoubtedly the first choice above anything else - even plasma rifle would be second to this.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #15 on: 17 May 2024, 09:18:09 »
The Snubnose is a decent weapon but it's not a true multipurpose weapon that works good on everything.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #16 on: 17 May 2024, 09:52:33 »

Snubbies are a good choice only on mobile units.  Slow, non-jumpers can’t take advantage of the snub’s long short-range.  Without that, the snub is a sub-par energy weapon.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #17 on: 17 May 2024, 16:58:33 »
Please don't forget snub nosed PPC - it's quite accurate mid range weapon consider its very long short range, while pack a punch just for six tons. For IS tech units, on the most times it's the superior replacement for LPL(ISLPL is stuck at range 10 at long range, you know), although generally it could be viewed as sidegrade. If I ever want a weapon with 10 damage and cannot afford any clantech, then it's undoubtedly the first choice above anything else - even plasma rifle would be second to this.

The Snubnose is a decent weapon but it's not a true multipurpose weapon that works good on everything.

Snubbies are a good choice only on mobile units.  Slow, non-jumpers can’t take advantage of the snub’s long short-range.  Without that, the snub is a sub-par energy weapon.

Agreed that its a solid weapon, and even more so agreed that its only VERY GOOD on the right chassis.
Which as noted is typically a Mobile Medium IMHO.
Stuff like the Awesome that uses Snubbies makes NO SENSE at all.
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Daryk

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #18 on: 17 May 2024, 17:49:41 »
The Thumper Artillery Cannon is only 10 tons and gets 20 shots per ton of ammo.  If you need a light AOE weapon, 'Mech Mortars are a thing.  If you have 20 tons to work with, Long Tom Artillery Cannons are nothing short of AWESOME! ;D

Colt Ward

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #19 on: 17 May 2024, 23:34:24 »
I've been trying to get better about fielding a mix of weapons that check numerous boxes when I play. I don't focus as much on units anymore; I dial in on having a variety of weapons on the field. Here's what I've been putting on the table as of late:

LBX-10- such a versatile weapon
LRMs- I like my IDF
ERML or ML- you just can't go wrong here.
Standard Gauss or Clan ERPPC- 15 damage at range plus the ability to take someone's head off is a plus.
CLPL- sniping, sniping and more sniping.

I think you have a lot of it covered, it just comes down to what is fielded at your table.

If you are the only one that regularly fields more than one squad/point of BA and people only bring one or two tanks . . . well, the Plasma Rifle loses some of it's shine.  Someone regularly bring VTOLs for either gunships, TAG'ers, or transports and there are a handful or more enemy vehs on the table?  Bring a LB-5X in a Vedette or Zoyra (especially the Armor version) to plink those VTOLs or tanks instead of having to use a mech mounted LB-10X that should be following up your ERPPC/Gauss/ERLL/PPC hits to search for crits.

Overall the list is decent . . . I tend to go with cERLL over ERPPC or Gauss just b/c I get more range, they do not draw the fire of the 15-pointers . . . and I tend to get head hits with them.  Then my LBX or LRMs finish it.

The one thing I think you left out is ECM.  IF your group is not playing a ECM heavy environment you can start demonstrating their errors with simple NARC.

One other piece of equipment to consider (that is criminally under-represented) is iNARC.  Nothing is more fun to me than someone who dumped BV into their 'killer' mech to get the gunnery up . . . does not pay attention to that Tufana (iNARC) that zips in to deliver a Haywire pod.  Did that to someone's stealth Pillager once- they were not amused.  Or plant the ECM pod on C3M or C3i units.  You let those folks know the iNARC pod CAN be brushed off . . . but they might punch themselves if they fail to remove it.  And you mean punch, on that chart.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #20 on: 19 May 2024, 05:44:05 »
But it is not likely that you gonna hit much things above 12 hex either by a PPC, so it doesn't have much difference with snub nosed version either. On hex 10~12 snub nosed one have the same to hit modifier with the normal PPC and its damage got reduced, but on 9 or less hexes it is better. Consider the range of ER medium laser of IS tech is 4/8/(12) I don't think that snub nosed PPC would be half bad and is better in overall for the most weapons with damage around 10. Even for the slow units.

Unless when those slow units does have the better accuracy fix and able to hit the target in the long range, but that's an another story.

OatsAndHall

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #21 on: 20 May 2024, 11:12:53 »
I think you have a lot of it covered, it just comes down to what is fielded at your table.

If you are the only one that regularly fields more than one squad/point of BA and people only bring one or two tanks . . . well, the Plasma Rifle loses some of it's shine.  Someone regularly bring VTOLs for either gunships, TAG'ers, or transports and there are a handful or more enemy vehs on the table?  Bring a LB-5X in a Vedette or Zoyra (especially the Armor version) to plink those VTOLs or tanks instead of having to use a mech mounted LB-10X that should be following up your ERPPC/Gauss/ERLL/PPC hits to search for crits.

Overall the list is decent . . . I tend to go with cERLL over ERPPC or Gauss just b/c I get more range, they do not draw the fire of the 15-pointers . . . and I tend to get head hits with them.  Then my LBX or LRMs finish it.

The one thing I think you left out is ECM.  IF your group is not playing a ECM heavy environment you can start demonstrating their errors with simple NARC.

One other piece of equipment to consider (that is criminally under-represented) is iNARC.  Nothing is more fun to me than someone who dumped BV into their 'killer' mech to get the gunnery up . . . does not pay attention to that Tufana (iNARC) that zips in to deliver a Haywire pod.  Did that to someone's stealth Pillager once- they were not amused.  Or plant the ECM pod on C3M or C3i units.  You let those folks know the iNARC pod CAN be brushed off . . . but they might punch themselves if they fail to remove it.  And you mean punch, on that chart.

I typically snag Clan ERPPCs, if possible.  I'll usually take an IS ERLL over an IS ERPPC, just because of the heat:damage ratio. And, yes, iNarc is a friggin' PITA. I do field it consistently as I like IDF.

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #22 on: 21 June 2024, 21:10:42 »
I've been trying to get better about fielding a mix of weapons that check numerous boxes when I play. I don't focus as much on units anymore; I dial in on having a variety of weapons on the field. Here's what I've been putting on the table as of late:

LBX-10- such a versatile weapon
LRMs- I like my IDF
ERML or ML- you just can't go wrong here.
Standard Gauss or Clan ERPPC- 15 damage at range plus the ability to take someone's head off is a plus.
CLPL- sniping, sniping and more sniping.

Good list.  I think I would add SRM’s (standard not streak) to the list.  Regardless of tech level they bring a lot of bang for the space/weight/heat and come into place at short range by which time their ability to hit lots of locations should be really effective at generating critical hits.  I think that ER large lasers beat out lb10x auto cannons most of the time but they both have value. 

Balian d’Ibelin

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #23 on: 22 June 2024, 10:54:39 »
The Plasma Rifle: the game's first anti-everything gun.

Just needs an ER version now…
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Charistoph

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Re: Cover-All-Your-Bases Layout
« Reply #24 on: 22 June 2024, 13:50:43 »
I just remembered something that the Plasma Rifle isn't good at being against: VTOLs, and maybe some WiGEs.  While the Damage spread is VERY good, it's ability to HIT said is definitely trumped by Flak weapons.
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