The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z

[Weirdo]

Also I was reading somewhere on this forum that some people interpret the ammo rules for Protomechs to mean that *any* alternate ammo gets half the amount of shots

That's a flavor of incorrect I've never seen before. They're still incorrect, though.

[Crow]

That's a flavor of incorrect I've never seen before. They're still incorrect, though.

I can do you one better. Riddle me this: can infantry use special munitions? More specifically,  can motorized Arrow IV infantry use homing rounds?

[Weirdo]

Field guns and field arty: Yes.

[Crow]

Field guns and field arty: Yes.

Good, because I was planning on using liberal amounts of artillery infantry. Because 1) it's not something that the Clans would do and 2) even though Society PBI are basically the equivalent of Evil Rita's putty patrollers on meth, I want to keep them as far from the front lines as possible to extend their already short lifespan.

That said, is a 30-trooper Un manning a Long Tom with Copperhead rounds a bit much?

[Xeno426]

Probably not, as they'll likely be running with Gunnery 5.

[Crow]

Would anyone care to describe their Society base? (see title) I'll come back and update mine in a bit

[Maingunnery]

Would anyone care to describe their Society base? (see title) I'll come back and update mine in a bit

Which one?

[KayEmm]

I need to finish writing up the idea that I had for one which I was going to develop into a fic/XTRO at some point and then... didn't.

The so-called "Midden" was a subterranean lair on Toashka that was located under the ruins of a Mongoose enclave. It was a combination of research facility and refit/repair facility, and wound up being home to a combination of both Society Forces and their Bandit "allies".

[Crow]

What do you guys think about using masses of cheap units line Cecerops, Gabriel, LRM Flatbed with NARC ammo and Clan Heavy Jump infantry with Mauser IIC, backed up by a few big distracting units like Osteon, Alacorn, Bane 3, Annihilator C2, etc?  :D

[Weirdo]

Sounds like a party to me. Make sure the big distraction still pairs well with your main force. If they can split you from your big guy or vice versa, you'll likely get defeated in detail.

[Maingunnery]

What do you guys think about using masses of cheap units line Cecerops, Gabriel, LRM Flatbed with NARC ammo and Clan Heavy Jump infantry with Mauser IIC, backed up by a few big distracting units like Osteon, Alacorn, Bane 3, Annihilator C2, etc?  :D

Will the infantry be hiding near the 'Mechs, as to latter surprise the enemies and then crit them out?

[Natasha Kerensky]

What do you guys think about using masses of cheap units line Cecerops, Gabriel, LRM Flatbed with NARC ammo and Clan Heavy Jump infantry with Mauser IIC

In big enough numbers, this is usually a winning, if very munchy, strategy.  You may not even need the big distractions.  Cecerops and Gabriels to block and fix, hole-punching from the Heavy Infantry a bit farther out, and massed LRM salvos from Flatbed Trucks behind cover to crit and finish off.  Just field enough to cover substantial losses and still get the job done.

Some nits:

— Need some empty Flatbed Trucks or other cheap carriers to get the infantry into range.
— No unit with a Narc launcher is listed.
— Trucks may want to carry some Smoke ammo to cover the approaching Heavy Infantry (and maybe Cecerops/Gabriels) in the initial turns.
— Flatbed Trucks may want to carry some Minelaying ammo to help the Cecerops/Gabriels) block and fix.
— Shamashes may be a better option than Gabriels.
— Flatbed Trucks (SRM) may be an even cheaper way of blocking and fixing than Cecerops/Gabriels/Shamashes.
— This strategy of many small manned units and lots of infantry is not necessarily consistent with Society fluff about limited manpower (but is consistent with subverting the Clans’ one-on-one combat doctrine).

backed up by a few big distracting units like Osteon, Alacorn, Bane 3, Annihilator C2, etc?  :D

While fun, again, in big enough numbers on the small units, I’m not sure these big distractions are even needed.  And with the exception of the Osteon, their limited mobility makes them vulnerable (with added crit vulnerabilities on the Alacorn).

Be careful about sinking a lot of BV into a few units that can be taken out quickly.  They may prove to be a bigger distractions for your forces as your small units get wasted trying to protect them rather than taking the fight to the enemy.

If you want some bigger units, I’d go more with Septicemias, Stormcrows, and the like than 100-tonners.  They can still provide solid support and stiffening for the small stuff but can also get out of trouble on their own.  The Stormcrow B is arguably the Clans’ best Narc carrier to boot.

[Crow]

Some nits:

— Need some empty Flatbed Trucks or other cheap carriers to get the infantry into range.
— No unit with a Narc launcher is listed.
— Trucks may want to carry some Smoke ammo to cover the approaching Heavy Infantry (and maybe Cecerops/Gabriels) in the initial turns.
— Flatbed Trucks may want to carry some Minelaying ammo to help the Cecerops/Gabriels) block and fix.
— Shamashes may be a better option than Gabriels.
— Flatbed Trucks (SRM) may be an even cheaper way of blocking and fixing than Cecerops/Gabriels/Shamashes.
— This strategy of many small manned units and lots of infantry is not necessarily consistent with Society fluff about limited manpower (but is consistent with subverting the Clans’ one-on-one combat doctrine).

I might even forego the infantry, but if I did use them, I hadn't given much thought as to transport. Saracen (Cargo), Maultier, Heavy Hover APC would all work fine. To be perfectly honest, I'm halfway tempted to use infantry with support artillery, because it's way cheaper than a Vali, Chaparral, Ballista, Marksman or Padilla. If I went that way, I would care about infantry transport way less when they are dug in at the far edge of the map anyway. I was considering using infantry with Thumper cannons to lay down smoke. Copperhead rounds might also work.

The NARC-sporting unit to be used in tandem with LRM IDF was very likely going to be 2-4 Royal Zephyrs (as mentioned in a different thread).

Also, I was going to use generous helpings of mines, smoke and artillery, of course. I hadn't painted the complete picture of my plans, but assume that I was going to try and pull every dirty trick that I could. Maybe even a Coolant Truck spraying paint or oil slick, who knows.

Using lots and lots of Flatbeds and Gabriels might *seem* incongruous given the Society's supposed lack of manpower, but if you think about the fact that a Flatbed or Gabriel only needs only 1 crew, then it seems a lot more plausible. No one would bat an eye if I used the following vehicle Un: 2x Lightning, 2x Chapparal, 2x Von Luckner, 1x Alacorn = 2*3 + 2*4 + 2*5 + 7 = 31 crew! I could have an entire Trey of 14x Gabriels and 7x Flatbeds = 21 crew and still have 10 less crew that the Un listed above. And if you add Proto taser + EMP iATM and overheat your enemy enough, your untrained hoards can close to point blank on 0/0 Star Colonel Crunch Buttsteak in his immobilized Blood Asp that much easier.

While fun, again, in big enough numbers on the small units, I’m not sure these big distractions are even needed.  And with the exception of the Osteon, their limited mobility makes them vulnerable (with added crit vulnerabilities on the Alacorn).

I was almost definitely going with the Osteon here as the big distracting baddy while Septecemias were going to do the real work and Cephalus will spot for NOVA CEWS and TAG.

[Natasha Kerensky]

I might even forego the infantry, but if I did use them, I hadn't given much thought as to transport. Saracen (Cargo), Maultier, Heavy Hover APC would all work fine. To be perfectly honest, I'm halfway tempted to use infantry with support artillery, because it's way cheaper than a Vali, Chaparral, Ballista, Marksman or Padilla. If I went that way, I would care about infantry transport way less when they are dug in at the far edge of the map anyway. I was considering using infantry with Thumper cannons to lay down smoke. Copperhead rounds might also work.

I could see bifurcating the infantry.  Lots of laborers and techs manning lots of artillery at the rear, with a small number of heavy Clan infantry on Saladins (Cargo) representing the drugged up mutants for shock value at the front.  Too bad those virotherapies and combat drugs have no impact on BT play.

The NARC-sporting unit to be used in tandem with LRM IDF was very likely going to be 2-4 Royal Zephyrs (as mentioned in a different thread).

I figured but thought you might be going even smaller, like the Odin (Spotter).

Since you’re running spotters with both Narc and TAG, I’d mix some A4 in with the Thumpers.  I think the A4 Homing rounds do more damage than the Thumper Copperheads.  I think there are also useful A4 rounds (AA, FASCAM, etc.) that may not be available to tube arty.

Also, I was going to use generous helpings of mines, smoke and artillery, of course. I hadn't painted the complete picture of my plans, but assume that I was going to try and pull every dirty trick that I could. Maybe even a Coolant Truck spraying paint or oil slick, who knows.

Seconded.

Using lots and lots of Flatbeds and Gabriels might *seem* incongruous given the Society's supposed lack of manpower, but if you think about the fact that a Flatbed or Gabriel only needs only 1 crew, then it seems a lot more plausible. No one would bat an eye if I used the following vehicle Un: 2x Lightning, 2x Chapparal, 2x Von Luckner, 1x Alacorn = 2*3 + 2*4 + 2*5 + 7 = 31 crew! I could have an entire Trey of 14x Gabriels and 7x Flatbeds = 21 crew and still have 10 less crew that the Un listed above. And if you add Proto taser + EMP iATM and overheat your enemy enough, your untrained hoards can close to point blank on 0/0 Star Colonel Crunch Buttsteak in his immobilized Blood Asp that much easier.

Good analysis.  Fair enough on the vehicle crew figures.

I know you’re sticking to canon designs.

But in keeping with making the most of the Society’s limited manpower, I’ve statted out an 8-ton superfast omniWiGE with ferro-lamellor, armored motive system, and enough tonnage left over for an iHeavy Medium Laser and Light TAG and similar loadouts.  Basically a high-tech Savannah Master to make use of those Society Pilot Phenotypes that fail to qualify for a Protomech or Aerospace Fighter.

I’ve also statted out a dirigible with dozens of remote control consoles for piloting a swarm of small, hyperfast VTOL and WiGE drones with Booby Traps.  Sorta the Society’s version of the V-1 buzz bomb.  Again, to make use of injured or failed Society Pilot Phenotypes (or laborers/techs) at the consoles in keeping with the Society’s limited manpower.

[Crow]

I could see bifurcating the infantry.  Lots of laborers and techs manning lots of artillery at the rear, with a small number of heavy Clan infantry on Saladins (Cargo) representing the drugged up mutants for shock value at the front.  Too bad those virotherapies and combat drugs have no impact on BT play.

Good call. Would you make the mutants generic foot troopers or give them jump packs?

I figured but thought you might be going even smaller, like the Odin (Spotter).

Nah, it looks ugly!  I've always had a soft spot for the Zephyr for some reason.

Since you’re running spotters with both Narc and TAG, I’d mix some A4 in with the Thumpers.  I think the A4 Homing rounds do more damage than the Thumper Copperheads.  I think there are also useful A4 rounds (AA, FASCAM, etc.) that may not be available to tube arty.

Truth be told, I was considering using infantry A4, Sniper, or even Long Tom. Homing all the way, baby!

I know you’re sticking to canon designs.

As I may have said before, I'm not against customs if sprinkled lightly if they enhance the flavor, one might say. But using customs as the backbone of the main force smacks of artlessness. I want my munch to be canon, thank you very much.  :D

But in keeping with making the most of the Society’s limited manpower, I’ve statted out an 8-ton superfast omniWiGE with ferro-lamellor, armored motive system, and enough tonnage left over for an iHeavy Medium Laser and Light TAG and similar loadouts.  Basically a high-tech Savannah Master to make use of those Society Pilot Phenotypes that fail to qualify for a Protomech or Aerospace Fighter.

I’ve also statted out a dirigible with dozens of remote control consoles for piloting a swarm of small, hyperfast VTOL and WiGE drones with Booby Traps.  Sorta the Society’s version of the V-1 buzz bomb.  Again, to make use of injured or failed Society Pilot Phenotypes (or laborers/techs) at the consoles in keeping with the Society’s limited manpower.

Alas, if only we could turn this into a XTRO  :'(

[Natasha Kerensky]

Good call. Would you make the mutants generic foot troopers or give them jump packs?

If the mutants are also drug-addled, then Clan Heavy Foot Infantry.  Hard to see them flying straight if they’re in a battle rage.

If they’re just mutants, then maybe Clan Heavy Jump Infantry.  I don’t recall any virotherapies that were intended to augment jump infantry.  But I could see the mobility-restricting dermal armor mutation potentially benefitting from jump packs to get around.

As dangerous as Clan heavy infantry is, it really doesn’t do the virotherapies and combat drugs justice in BT play.  I’d be tempted to require three points of damage to take down a Society heavy jump infantryman, representing the one point each for the base infantryman, his combat kit, and his dermal armor or whatever mutation underneath.  And four points for Society heavy foot infantry, adding another point for the combat drug stamina.  That would be some scary infantry.

I don’t recall for sure, but there may be some other virotherapy fluff (better eyesight?) that could theoretically extend the range of infantry weapons by a hex or two in BT play.  Or maybe allow the unit to carry (and fire each turn) more or heavier weapons than normally allowed.

As I may have said before, I'm not against customs if sprinkled lightly if they enhance the flavor, one might say.

The super-durable, mutagenic, drug-addled, zombie heavy infantry above might be the trick.

Alas, if only we could turn this into a XTRO  :'(

I also did a tracked modular battle “train” and a Clantech omni-Kanga.  Need to get them posted someday.

[Crow]

What do you guys think about Society use of Semi-Guided LRMs (if I restricted it to IS equipment, say Flatbed LRM trucks)?

[AlphaMirage]

I think they would use them if they had them, iATMs are pretty great for sure but comparably inexpensive missiles sign me up.

[Weirdo]

What do you guys think about Society use of Semi-Guided LRMs (if I restricted it to IS equipment, say Flatbed LRM trucks)?

If they got them, sure. I believe the odds of them getting enough for a combat load to be astronomically unlikely. The factions that widely deploy them had very little contact with any Clans prior to the Jihad/Reaving, so they'd be capturing them in small amounts from merc raiders, mostly. Those stocks would indeed be turned over to Scientists and Technicians for analysis, but there be no call from the Warriors to reverse engineer the stuff. Judging by the Z-configs we saw, the Society chose to go all-in with iATMs, largely ignoring LRMs or SRMs, so I really don't see them developing the stuff themselves.

You might see a few tons of S-Gs fielded by the Society in desperation. And I'm talking about those few tons being the sum total across the entire Society over the entire Wars of Reavings.

[Crow]

If they got them, sure. I believe the odds of them getting enough for a combat load to be astronomically unlikely. The factions that widely deploy them had very little contact with any Clans prior to the Jihad/Reaving, so they'd be capturing them in small amounts from merc raiders, mostly. Those stocks would indeed be turned over to Scientists and Technicians for analysis, but there be no call from the Warriors to reverse engineer the stuff. Judging by the Z-configs we saw, the Society chose to go all-in with iATMs, largely ignoring LRMs or SRMs, so I really don't see them developing the stuff themselves.

You might see a few tons of S-Gs fielded by the Society in desperation. And I'm talking about those few tons being the sum total across the entire Society over the entire Wars of Reavings.

Well there was that Blakist asteroid base that the Society/Dark Caste raised during the WoR that was later raided by the Scorpions...

Anyway,  I'll probably stick with NARC ammo anyway  ;)

[Natasha Kerensky]

What do you guys think about Society use of Semi-Guided LRMs (if I restricted it to IS equipment, say Flatbed LRM trucks)?

Weirdo’s is the conservative and most canonical take.

That said, there is precedent for the Society to take a faraway Spheroid invention, modify it for their uses, and put it into production without the Warrior caste ever knowing.

The Society did somehow get its hands on battle armor magclamps — which were only used on Cappie Fa Shih suits on the opposite side of the Inner Sphere from the Clan OZs prior to the Wars of Reaving — and managed to supersize the technology and implement it on multiple new protomech production designs up to 10x heavier than the Fa Shih.  All without the Warrior caste knowing until it was too late.

Given that precedent, I think it’s certainly possible that some Leaguer semi-guided LRMs fell into the Society’s hands, were reversed-engineered and shrunken for Clan launchers, and widely produced alongside iATMs in the years leading up to the Wars of Reaving without the Warrior Caste ever knowing.

There’s no canonical evidence for this, but the precedent is certainly there for home-brewed Society campaigns or cells.

[Crow]

Weirdo’s is the conservative and most canonical take.

That said, there is precedent for the Society to take a faraway Spheroid invention, modify it for their uses, and put it into production without the Warrior caste ever knowing.

The Society did somehow get its hands on battle armor magclamps — which were only used on Cappie Fa Shih suits on the opposite side of the Inner Sphere from the Clan OZs prior to the Wars of Reaving — and managed to supersize the technology and implement it on multiple new protomech production designs up to 10x heavier than the Fa Shih.  All without the Warrior caste knowing until it was too late.

Given that precedent, I think it’s certainly possible that some Leaguer semi-guided LRMs fell into the Society’s hands, were reversed-engineered and shrunken for Clan launchers, and widely produced alongside iATMs in the years leading up to the Wars of Reaving without the Warrior Caste ever knowing.

There’s no canonical evidence for this, but the precedent is certainly there for home-brewed Society campaigns or cells.

This is precisely my line of reasoning  8)

[Maingunnery]

And there are plenty of Scoiety units with TAG:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=TAG&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=86

[KayEmm]

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=67905.0

Started posting my Society XTRO. I'm planning to follow up with some personal Society (as well as Dark Caste) units that I've created.

[Crow]

So the question today is: Gabriel or Shamash?

The Shamash is probably the superior unit (more firepower, and can actually take a hit before dying) but I feel that it's more of a Blood Spirit exclusive unit and I find it hard to rationalize flavor-wise.

The Gabriel doesn't bring the guns, but at least has slightly better range, is SLDF vintage, so I feel less guilty about spamming them like Savannah Masters.

What do you guys think?

[truetanker]

Well there's no reason why you can't use any of theTDF mods but with clanrech.

TT

[Natasha Kerensky]

So the question today is: Gabriel or Shamash?

The Shamash is probably the superior unit (more firepower, and can actually take a hit before dying) but I feel that it's more of a Blood Spirit exclusive unit and I find it hard to rationalize flavor-wise.

The Shamash is on the Society, General Homeworld Clan, and even General Inner Sphere Clan MUL lists by the Jihad.  Despite their isolation, the Spirits must have traded some to the Mandrills or Ravens (TRO 3060 entry may confirm), and the easily copied design would have spread after that.  It has been around for nearly two centuries by the Jihad, so there’s been plenty of time for the Shamash to get around.

But for that scraping-the-bottom-of-the-Brian-Cache feel of the Society, you could mix in some Gabriels, too.

What the Society really needs is a Shamash or Gabriel with pulse lasers to offset their poor training.

[Crow]

Or I could just go with Cecerops, because those are the easiest for the Society to filtch  :D

[Natasha Kerensky]

Or I could just go with Cecerops, because those are the easiest for the Society to filtch  :D

Well, I was thinking something larger than a micro pulse laser.  And I bet seven Shamashes/Gabriels beat three Cecerops, despite the Cecerops’ greater individual survivability.

But yeah, sure, why not?!

[Crow]

I guess I was thinking more about "what is the most effective and cheapest unit for blocking enemy movement?"