Avengers Endgame: Now With Spoilers!

[Ruger]

Seems a heck of alot older than 5 years post IM3..  More like 10..  Though how long was it between IM3 and infinity war??

IM3 took place circa December 2012. AEG starts in 2019 and finishes in 2024. The kid was 10 in IM3. That puts him at about 17 of he got snapped or 24 of he didn't at the funeral.

Ruger

[ANS Kamas P81]

What I find most hilarious about the box office numbers this weekend is that Captain Marvel was #2!   ;D

Disney is laughing all the way to the bank... some of the records they broke were set by some of their other properties... The Force Awakens, or Infinity War itself.

This just in, Disney announced it has bought the bank.  All of the bank.

Regards the kid from IM3: Yes that is indeed him, played by Ty Simpkins once more. 

So who cried at "MAKE LOVE NOT WAR?"

Using an Iron Man suit...well, it's pretty darn simple, all told.  Look how fast Rhodey got War Machine up and running; ostensibly programmed FOR him by Stark but he'd never had one flight hour on the thing prior to suiting up and shutting down Tony's party-gone-berserk.  The same can likely be said for Pepper; even if she didn't have much time in it she's still got Stark prepping it for her.

Where do they go from here?  Well, outside of the Spiderman sequel, the next five films are going to be (in no order) Shang-Chi, Black Widow, Doctor Strange 2, Black Panther 2, and The Eternals.  We know GotG3 is back on after..."events" with the director.  The Eternals is interesting to me, if they're going to a more cosmic push for things - between Marvel herself, the new Guardians, the OLD Guardians out there (I quote Stakaar: let's go steal some ****) and a nicely established universe they've got some solid building blocks.

It'll be nice to see Corpsman Dey and his kids again, as Xandar, the Nova Corps, and the rest of the universe also tries to come back from the Snap.  Captain Marvel's gonna be darn busy, from what I've read of her comics.

Wonder what today's box take is going to be for the film.

[gyedid]

No, that is the Loki of AlternateWorld where Thanos leaped forward in time to try to get the stones.  DadBodThor still has a dead Loki in his past.  Now grand-d Sharon Carter could still exist simply b/c we were never told Peggy's husband's name, never saw him at the funeral, and her dementia/alzheimer's makes the besides scene in IIRC Avengers a bit interesting- lol did she have dementia, or was she tripping about a young Rodgers being in her room?

Right, I understood that.  But Soul-Banner told the Ancient One that by returning the Stones to their proper place and time they would close off all alternate branches, and in this case they failed to do that.  The Tesseract that Cap has at the end of the movie is the one from 1970, so he returns it to Camp Lehigh right after Stark has taken it, meaning it's still available in 2012 for Loki to make off with it, and so it doesn't get taken back to Asgard for Thor 2.

Remember, Steve Rodgers is worthy by the Hammer . . . he never told anyone about how the future was going to play out, nor did he bet on sport events to enrich his family.  And he convinced Peggy to keep it secret after he reappeared.  Tony did not take a chance to effect the future either- he never told Howard to distrust Zolag or that Hydra had infiltrated SHIELD.

So, Tony didn't try to lift the Hammer...but he did manage to pry all of the Stones, including the Power Stone, off of Thanos' gloved hand without being vaporized...is that how he shows he's worthy?  Or does the Power Stone only do that if it actually touches flesh, and Tony's hand was still protected by his suit?  And then Cap has to handle it afterwards...

cheers,

Gabe

[garhkal]

As far as Pepper's suit, "Rescue" is her superhero name, if I remember right, and Sartris has it right regarding it being "in the garage" for five years.

Ah..  So the suit was made for her..  Though why then, did she appear via one of those portals, like the rest of the 'snapped'?

Where do they go from here?  Well, outside of the Spiderman sequel, the next five films are going to be (in no order) Shang-Chi, Black Widow, Doctor Strange 2, Black Panther 2, and The Eternals.  We know GotG3 is back on after..."events" with the director. 

I am looking forward to all of those, though i wonder how Shang-chi is going to work in?

It'll be nice to see Corpsman Dey and his kids again, as Xandar, the Nova Corps, and the rest of the universe also tries to come back from the Snap.  Captain Marvel's gonna be darn busy, from what I've read of her comics.

YEa, she certainly is..

Wonder what today's box take is going to be for the film.

'Avengers: Endgame' Decimates Record Books with $1.2 Billion Global Debut.
As per boxofficemojo.

[Colt Ward]

Ah..  So the suit was made for her..  Though why then, did she appear via one of those portals, like the rest of the 'snapped'?

Yeah, we meet their kid b/c she is wearing mommy's helmet when Tony fetches her.  Because you want all the reinforcements arriving for a decisive stroke.  Trickling them in lets you be defeated in detail.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Ah..  So the suit was made for her..  Though why then, did she appear via one of those portals, like the rest of the 'snapped'?

Because that's how Doctor Strange brought everyone, snapped or not, forward to the battle.  Falcon gives Cap a ten-second 'incoming' warning as part of it.  Look at everyone there, not all of them were dusted.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Huh.  Apparently even Howard the Duck is in the final battle.  Wonder if it'll be tied to his TV series coming up.

[Sharpnel]

Wonder what today's box take is going to be for the film.

Worldwide it's over $1.2 Billion with domestic at about $250 million. This will be the biggest grossing film of all time when said and done.


EDIT: Sorry, these were the numbers thru Saturday night.

[Luciora]

I wonder if the Black Widow movie will somehow tie into the Soul Stone.

[I am Belch II]

Domestic haul was $350 million blowing away Avengers Infinity War. I wonder if it will beat Star Wars 7 in the domestic or  Avatar in the International.

[Nightlord01]

Right, I understood that.  But Soul-Banner told the Ancient One that by returning the Stones to their proper place and time they would close off all alternate branches, and in this case they failed to do that.  The Tesseract that Cap has at the end of the movie is the one from 1970, so he returns it to Camp Lehigh right after Stark has taken it, meaning it's still available in 2012 for Loki to make off with it, and so it doesn't get taken back to Asgard for Thor 2.

That remains in that alternate universe. Only Thanos' ship made the crossing so that was just a fan service showing Loki surviving. Loki would need Pym particles and the time line GPS to travel successfully to the Prime timeline.

So, Tony didn't try to lift the Hammer...but he did manage to pry all of the Stones, including the Power Stone, off of Thanos' gloved hand without being vaporized...is that how he shows he's worthy?  Or does the Power Stone only do that if it actually touches flesh, and Tony's hand was still protected by his suit?  And then Cap has to handle it afterwards...

From what I understand, the Iron Man armour is able to absorb an immense amount of energy, Tony probably built it with the Infinity Stones in mind. He was the most forward looking of the group, that's what got him into trouble so often, he could see not the way the world was going, but the way the world could go, and posture himself to help it along. Regarding the stones, the sorcerers may have put a magic shield around each one, just enough to stop anyone from actually touching it and vaporising themselves.

I've seen a lot of queries regarding the new shape of the stones, it seems pretty straight forward to me, no one knew where most of the stones were, remember it wasn't until Age of Ultron that the MCU characters realised that Loki had been handling the Mind Stone all along, the Space Stone could be just put back in the cage, let SHIELD see it was a stone not a cube, everything else would be identical. The Time Stone gets returned to the Ancient One, and the Power Stone put back in the column, only difference there is that Thanos' hunters can't come and find Quill, so he gets away scott free.

Because that's how Doctor Strange brought everyone, snapped or not, forward to the battle.  Falcon gives Cap a ten-second 'incoming' warning as part of it.  Look at everyone there, not all of them were dusted.

It wasn't just Dr Strange, it was all the sorcerers, they came from all over the world bringing all of the fighters with them, that's why there were so many magic shields going up when Thanos started his bombardment. Rescue would have come through Wong's portal, with all the other New York based fighters. I have to admit, the arrival of the forces of Earth brought a big smile to my face, everybody came to the fight, after Thanos' monologue about how much he was going to enjoy it, I got the feeling that he really didn't enjoy that battle one bit.

Speaking of Thanos, I reiterate what I said after Infinity War, what a moron! Wipe out half the life in the universe? Excellent, you've bought about a century on Earth until population reaches the same or higher numbers! Given that he destroyed the stones afterwards, what was he going to do about a resurgent universe? I've long thought that he decided what he wanted to do first, then rationalised it as best he could, convincing himself and others along the way that it was really for "balance".

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, Wong coming from NYC would have been where the Defenders could have come in . . . wish we had gotten a cameo with them since all the Netflix/Disney thing.  Heh, Rocket was impressed with Bucky's gun- what about Rocket meeting the Punisher!

[garhkal]

Because that's how Doctor Strange brought everyone, snapped or not, forward to the battle.  Falcon gives Cap a ten-second 'incoming' warning as part of it.  Look at everyone there, not all of them were dusted.

Roger..  Was nice to see all those mages there..  Though one guy mentioned..
"We saw Dr Strange cut off that big lugs arm in Infinity war with closing a portal.
So why couldn't he do that on thano's arm in this fight?"

I wonder if the Black Widow movie will somehow tie into the Soul Stone.

IMO that would be the only way to make a series/movie on her, unless its exploring her past (like how her and barton began working together..)

[Colt Ward]

Or its a precursor and you see Cold War era Black Widow before Barton brought her in.

[Weirdo]

Budapest.  ^-^

[ActionButler]

So... now that I finally saw it and have had the night to process it, I'm still trying to wrap my head around MCU's brand of time travel (and, forgive me if this is retreading on some of what has already been discussed)....

When Cap takes the Infinity Stones and Mjolnir back into their respective correct moments in time, he eliminates any of the multiple alternate timelines that were created by taking all of those things into 2024 in the first place (according to Tilda Swinton, at least).  No fuss, no muss.  However, we still have (at least) two alternate universes uncorrected in the form of:

A) A universe where Thanos and his army all disappear in 2014 (in which, everything from Guardians of the Galaxy forward would never happen)

and

B) A universe where Loki snags the Tesseract after the battle of New York and bolts (in which, who the hell knows what happens)

That is assuming, though, that Steve didn't create his own alternate timeline by staying in the past and that he was always supposed to go back in time to live out his life with Peggy, which does conveniently fit jive with the fact that (if I recall correctly) we have never been told who Peggy's husband actually was but leaves open the question of where the shield he gives to Sam came from. 

Is that... roughly correct?

[Luciora]

One more thing also, was Bill Foster and Ghost mentioned?  Think they might have a part in the new phase also?

[Ruger]

Is that... roughly correct?

Yes.

Ruger

[Colt Ward]

So... now that I finally saw it and have had the night to process it, I'm still trying to wrap my head around MCU's brand of time travel (and, forgive me if this is retreading on some of what has already been discussed)....

When Cap takes the Infinity Stones and Mjolnir back into their respective correct moments in time, he eliminates any of the multiple alternate timelines that were created by taking all of those things into 2024 in the first place (according to Tilda Swinton, at least).  No fuss, no muss.  However, we still have (at least) two alternate universes uncorrected in the form of:

Swinson was worried that just removing the time stone would cause the alternate timeline, from that point, of Dr Strange losing and Earth falling to the monster demon but it would not erase the SnapWorld timeline.  She implies other bad things could happen if each stone was removed- multiple timelines of bad things happening for each stone and combinations of stones removed.  Stones returned, time resumes its normal forward progress with all its normal variations.  SnapWorld's destiny DOES create AlternateWorld where Thanos leaps into the future to be defeated . . . which DOES offer some fun story ideas (Does Peter Quill have a dance off with Ronan??).

Now . . . does that tell a separate story for time travel compared to Agents?

[ANS Kamas P81]

With 2014 Gamora having jumped forward to the present day, and Quill off looking for her...there could be a really neat call-and-echo for the GotG movies.  Remember how Gamora was the key in really bringing Nebula back from being Thanos' raging murderpuppet, especially in GotG2?  Now it's going to be the other way around, with Nebula's turn to bring HER sister "into the fold" as it were.

I like synchronicities like that, especially when it lets you explore characters that way.

So how long until the first M-ship dealership shows up on earth?

[Hellraiser]

Sharon is Peggy's grand-neice, not granddaughter.

I can't wait to see Endgame.  I was going to avoid spoilers, but i couldn't help myself.

Ah,  I was thinking it was grand daughter.

Is it in the comics that she is the granddaughter?

Ok, I don't feel so bad then, lol. 

Don't we see Peggy's husband in one of the earlier movies?  Cap-2 I think?



I'm not too worried about alternate timeline Loki since that could be the basis of the TV series they are planning, and in the end, it could just be that Thor catches him & hauls him back to Asgard a few months later.


The missing Thanos 2014 might be solved by Gamora still tracking them down, maybe that is why she wasn't at the funeral, they took her back to the past, and she still goes after the Stone as she was hired to do by the Collector.

Or she stays in this timeline with the team & we get the old Gamora can't tolerate Quill dynamic back.


Pepper had her own suit in IM3 didn't she?
   I haven't seen it in a long time but I thought one of them was for her, and after getting stuck in Tony's IIRC, she probably spent some time at some point in 10 years learning how to operate one.


Did any full human actually touch a raw Infinity Stone?   Hulk is more than Human & had the Glove.   

Tony died but all he was doing was killing the Army, not resurrecting 50% of the Universe, I'm assuming it was actually nanotech parts that moved the stones & nothing he touched directly.

Most everyone else like Strange tends to be levitating them v/s touching them.




I might have to give Disney some more of my $$ & go see it again some night this week after work.  :)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Multiple people have touched the Tessaract across different movies.  The Power Stone and Ether are the only two that have ever been shown to have negative consequences for directly touching them.

I just got back from seeing it an hour ago.  I was very impressed by the pacing, unlike Infinity Wars which really felt too long.

[DOC_Agren]

Huh.  Apparently even Howard the Duck is in the final battle.  Wonder if it'll be tied to his TV series coming up.

He has a tv series coming up!!!   :thumbsup:

[Marveryn]

you know a lot of the error with the returning the stone is fix with cap putting it back in the exact time it was taken.  that mean we don't get the heist and the past continue as it had before.  So its not a back to the future where the time travel self has to walk around his previous time traveler self. ……..So without the stone going to the future .. thanos doesn't go forward as the stone remain in place.  You know what am confuse... nevermind this is doctor who time travel stuff

[Luciora]

This might help.  Also some of the commentors do a better job explaining a few things too.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/all-the-questions-we-still-have-after-avengers-endgame-1834300697

you know a lot of the error with the returning the stone is fix with cap putting it back in the exact time it was taken.  that mean we don't get the heist and the past continue as it had before.  So its not a back to the future where the time travel self has to walk around his previous time traveler self. ……..So without the stone going to the future .. thanos doesn't go forward as the stone remain in place.  You know what am confuse... nevermind this is doctor who time travel stuff

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I always assume in time travel fiction that unless the character is someone like The Doctor they don't actually know for certain what's going to be the affect of time traveling like that, so any inconsistencies are because they were only hypothesizing.

BTW, did anyone else like the way they did the cold opening of the film?

[Nightlord01]

you know a lot of the error with the returning the stone is fix with cap putting it back in the exact time it was taken.  that mean we don't get the heist and the past continue as it had before.  So its not a back to the future where the time travel self has to walk around his previous time traveler self. ……..So without the stone going to the future .. thanos doesn't go forward as the stone remain in place.  You know what am confuse... nevermind this is doctor who time travel stuff

Thanos didn't head forward to find the stone, he headed forward because of Nebula, that's an event that wasn't undone by returning the Power Stone. If Nebula instead traveled back in time again and warned everyone, thus having War Machine go it alone, that's roughly the same thing as returning the stones, but it influences observed events and thus reality is definitely going to diverge.

The concept is that everything that happens, happens. So War Machine and Nebula heading to Morag happened, no matter whether the stone is returned at that time or not. thus Thanos knows that Nebula is there and captures her, leading to him translating through the quantum realm.

This is, coincidentally, why Loki cannot now head to the prime timeline, he doesn't have the time GPS that Tony Stark developed.

As for a split in timeline for each stone removed, no, only for the ones that actually make a difference. So the Mind and Space Stones, sure, they are now in their true form not the disguise they were wearing, not the biggest deal since they can still be studied, and potentially the Mind Stone may be put back in the staff (How I don't know, and I'm guessing the Director didn't care). This type of universe theory is convergent/divergent universes, as opposed to purely divergent. It makes a lot more sense IMO, as the energy requirements aren't so odious. Essentially, to diverge, some sort of substantial difference must be felt, say your choice of breakfast is Weetbix, Toast or skip. You choose Weetbix or Toast, there's no difference and thus no divergence. You choose Skip, and crash your car on the way to work because of low blood sugar, if it's a fender bender no biggie, if it's a major accident resulting in injury or death, then the universes diverge. If the injuries aren't severe enough to have major lasting effects, then the universe once again converges due to lack of differences.

[Bedwyr]

As for a split in timeline for each stone removed, no, only for the ones that actually make a difference. So the Mind and Space Stones, sure, they are now in their true form not the disguise they were wearing, not the biggest deal since they can still be studied, and potentially the Mind Stone may be put back in the staff (How I don't know, and I'm guessing the Director didn't care). This type of universe theory is convergent/divergent universes, as opposed to purely divergent. It makes a lot more sense IMO, as the energy requirements aren't so odious. Essentially, to diverge, some sort of substantial difference must be felt, say your choice of breakfast is Weetbix, Toast or skip. You choose Weetbix or Toast, there's no difference and thus no divergence. You choose Skip, and crash your car on the way to work because of low blood sugar, if it's a fender bender no biggie, if it's a major accident resulting in injury or death, then the universes diverge. If the injuries aren't severe enough to have major lasting effects, then the universe once again converges due to lack of differences.

Very much like Discworld's rules where history "tries" to fill the holes.

[Colt Ward]

Well, Tony did say Time would push back . . .

[Drop Bear]

Saw it today, it's my last Marvel Movie that I will see as a marvel movie, the rest I'll treat as standalone or their own franchises, seen all of them (except Captain Marvel) own them all to date (except Captain Marvel) on multiple formats.

Not so much an "End Game" but the end of the MCU Era and it nicely ties it up, anything more will be a new story, lets see if the sequel is as good as the first.