Poll

What scale of conflicts do you enjoy most in the BattleTech universe?

low level raids and attacks. Lances and companies mainly. (3rd Succession War, early MWDA)
66 (24.6%)
smaller scale conflicts. Battalions and Regiments scale mostly. (Ronin War, MoC-Andurien war on Liao, Operation Guerrero)
71 (26.5%)
Fullscale Wars between nations. Regiments and multi-regimental actions, war of conquest (War of 3039, 4th Succession War, Operation Revival)
89 (33.2%)
Total Warfare. No holds barred. (Age of War pre-Ares convention, 1st + 2nd Succession Wars, Jihad)
38 (14.2%)
Other option - please elaborate below
4 (1.5%)

Total Members Voted: 178

Voting closed: 09 August 2012, 15:42:09

Author Topic: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)  (Read 19231 times)

Øystein

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Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« on: 25 June 2012, 15:42:09 »
What kind of conflicts do you enjoy reading about in fiction and sourcebooks?

  • Is it the scrounging down-on-your-luck setting of the late 3rd Succession Wars and the early Dark Age? When BattleMechs were scarce and often a Lance or Company would attack a plant?
  • Is it the era of small border changes, between the major offensives? A Battalion or Regiment attacks a world, either to capture loot or try to capture the planet?
  • The full scale wars of conquest between nations? War of 3039, 4th Succesion War, Operation Revival are prime examples. When multiple regiments would assault on a broad front, with the objective to capture territory.
  • The prospect of Total War. When every glove comes off. Factories are targets to deny to the enemy, collateral damage is ignored. Better to destroy a planet to get rid of the BattleMech factory, damn the civilians. Jihad, Age of War (pre-Ares Convention), 1st and 2nd Succession Wars are prime examples of this level of warfare.


This is more of an academic interest to me. I see so many varied opinions on the forums and elsewhere so I wish to sample what the population here believes.

Feel free to elaborate below, list various conflicts that you've enjoyed the most to read about.

Note - I am inquiring about in-universe conflicts levels, and not what scale level you play.

With regards,
Øystein
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #1 on: 25 June 2012, 18:39:46 »
When not a frenzied state of war, I love the small raiders scenarios.  Single lances or companies, or maybe at the higher outside combined arms battalions are the stuff of the nitty gritty, every unit matters, lose-that-'Mech-and-you're-screwed mentality that made the initial setting so attractive.

When war is on the horizon, or already here, bring on the regiments.  In fact, bring on more than that.  I want to see aerospace fighters jockeying for the kill, I want to see a full battalion of 'Mechs leveling a city block on their march of conquest.  I want to see a pair of regiments and then some pitting and scarring the countryside with stray blasts of energetic death and divots torn out of armor to the tune of the rippling staccato of more autocannons than you can count.  I want a doomed ASF plunging into the middle of a storm of missiles that weren't even meant for it in a last ditch effort to mean something on a battlefield the size of an entire planet.

That's what I like. O0
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #2 on: 25 June 2012, 19:01:44 »

I like the smaller scale conflicts, something where the individual unit (or even the individual) can make a difference, where a death is not just a statistic. 
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #3 on: 25 June 2012, 19:14:44 »
the mad max era of salavge everything is cool but everything in battletech is cool though. Local focus on small units is the best thing i like for small battles. but it would be cool to see stuff on the 1st and 2nd seesion wars though where everything and anything was being nuked....it would give herb more chances to use his fav weapon on texes again......

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #4 on: 25 June 2012, 20:17:38 »
Love the small to mid-size battles the most.
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #5 on: 26 June 2012, 16:43:11 »
Personally, I've always loved the small-scale, low intensity battles of the 3rd Succession war, where warfare seemed to be more a "gunfight at the OK Corral" -- just replace the Earps/Doc Holliday and Clanton's Cowboys with Wolf's Dragoons and the Waco Rangers or the 3rd Crucis Lancers and the 5th Sword of Light.

There seemed to be something more personal when it is Wayne Waco wanting to avenge the death of his son or Yorinaga Kurita chafing at the humiliation of defeat, rather than Hanse Davion going and saying "Y'know what? I woke up today and said to myself, 'Hanse, I feel like making the Capellan Confederation cease to exist,'" or the WoB decreeing pretty much the same for the entire Inner Sphere. (Full disclosure: I am a supporter of House Davion and actually loved the 4th Succession War storyline. I just prefer the more personal scale of combat.)
« Last Edit: 26 June 2012, 16:47:55 by Pat Payne »

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #6 on: 26 June 2012, 16:51:04 »
I voted for the smaller scale conflicts. Individuals and lances can make a difference, but you can still throw a full regiment at things sometimes.
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #7 on: 26 June 2012, 17:29:00 »
a good mix of all three is the best. But small scale battalion or regiment is the best. Big enough to have known characters of your choosing and small enough for new characters to be made through luck

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #8 on: 26 June 2012, 23:46:58 »
I personally enjoy reading about the Full scale wars (i.e. the Jihad).  Plus all the toys that were brought out, etc.  New ideas that get brought out, showing why certain ideas are good, bad, etc.  It also makes a Change in the BT universe.  The Clan Invasion killed a smaller government, and punched a wedge into two others.  The Fourth Succession War halved the Capellan Confederation, etc.  It shows that the BT universe changes over time, unlike other games where they are stuck in a perpetual stalemate.

The problem is you can't have too many of them.

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #9 on: 27 June 2012, 11:11:09 »
I like action of small units. :)

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #10 on: 27 June 2012, 12:27:08 »
Total Warfare and Other I voted.
I love seeing the BIG fights, the ones that rock the Universe and shake off the units that need to die.
However I also voted Other because I want to see the individual, not a lance, make the difference.
Lyran Fire is a good example of what I'm talking about. Here we have the Coalition taking Terra and Stone is facing ungodly amounts of Blakists, yet Lyran Fire is a story about a small group who try to hold off as many possible before death. I think the Guide to Covert Ops had a similar story, one person destroys the jumpship by explosion and they are inside the ship. One death stopped how many 'Mechs from taking his/her home?
What if they couldn't do it? Then the Blakists could have overwhelmed another Coalition force and possibly swung the overall battle.

So I love reading about the big brutal fights that nearly rip our known space in half, but I also want to read about that one Spec Ops trooper who sacraficed his/her life to stop the great evils haunting their home.
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #11 on: 27 June 2012, 13:10:12 »
I chose small scale because you get to know the characters and pick your favs. Some of the early MWDA novels were great for this. Double Blind also comes to min even though that had a pretty big battle at the end. Or even a good story about a small group fighting off a much larger invasion force.

Then I chose more 4th, War of '39 types because you get a lot more page time for a big variety of characters, and even the leaders. Heir to the Dragon, Capellan Solution and some FCCW books were good it that sense.

But hey! I just like reading about anything in one of my favorite universes. Bring it all on!

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #12 on: 27 June 2012, 13:37:51 »
I'm a fan of the idea that a lance or company of 'mechs are significant enough to decide the fate of worlds. A few skirmishes as the COs get a feel for each other, ending in a nice climactic battle suits me fine. Double Blind was a pretty good example of the sort of fiction I like in Battletech.

Some non-'mech stuff is always fun, too. There's plenty in the universe that would be halfway decent story hooks. It'd be cool to see stuff about say, the Ebon Magistrate or something else covert ops style sometime.
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #13 on: 28 June 2012, 01:23:59 »
I like the small-scale battalion or regimental size conflicts as well as the full-scale broad front wars of Battletech. The former because at least small units can still make a difference on a single planet and it fleshes out multiple characters and unit details and histories.

However, with that said, i equally enjoy full-scale wars especially the 4th Succession War, Reunification War, Operation Klondike, Wars of Reaving(this one is a stretch between Total Warfare and Full-Scale War) and stuff like that where it is glorious warfare still limited to conventional means. The factories will still be there and become capturable and prime objectives instead of something to nuke from orbit for denial to the enemy and the associated "loss" of the designs associated with that factory, such as what is happening with the current post-Jihad situation. There are actual broad changes to the factions in full-scale wars to keep things interesting, such as War of '39 and 4th SW instead of things remaining static and only getting the illusion of change.

Lance or company-sized actions are just too unbelievable on planetary or interplanetary scales. It reminds me too much of Dark Age and the "single 'Mech defending an entire planet" type of storyline.

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #14 on: 29 June 2012, 06:22:10 »
In fluff I want the full no holds barred conflict.

Why?

It is always possible to zoom in onto a specific unit or a single guy with a rifle.

The opposite is not possible.

If there are 4 guys and 2 Mechs duking it out- well.. that is it. Soon there will be everything said and done and thats it.

It is also easier for me as a GM to focus and zoom in onto a small lance to lance or Batt vs Batt engagement. Also the sheer amount of forces allows me to find a place to set my own scenarious and allows my players to fit into the story.


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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #15 on: 30 June 2012, 03:52:20 »
Small scale and full scale conflicts.
Interesting, there is room for some hero action.

Raids are too small, and I despise total war.
Nukes, orbital bombardments etc. are boring. Oops, killed a regiment by accident.  ::)
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #16 on: 30 June 2012, 10:07:23 »
I like warships and the all out war that they are used in, in space.
On the ground the biggest fights I like are Ronin War style mid side combats.

So for my the ideal war is big raids lead by assult droppers and light warships.  3-4 assult droppers with a CL or smaller leading.  3-7 lances of mech, tanks, and infantry on the ground.  Covered by 1-3 aerospace fighter lances.  Just big enough to use the warships, but small eight that individual action still make a big impact.

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #17 on: 30 June 2012, 15:38:58 »
Smaller scale conflicts

I love the 3rd succession war and the major campaigns that begin when a full regiment or two drop on a world to take the planet out right are those major events that break up the day to day low level actions.
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #18 on: 30 June 2012, 17:51:14 »
My preference is the full scale war. The kind of thing that military formations are born for. In a total war scenario, all of the energy devoted to building effective units is often wasted because they vanish in the blink of an eye due to orbital bombardment or nuclear strike or what-have-you. Conversely, in long duration raiding, you don't get to see the full capability of these formations- it's skirmish, do what you came to do, the GTFO before the other guy can respond. While fun at the level of the raiding unit, it doesn't really do units justice because they aren't tied in together and communicating, they're out there alone, doing their own thing (not part of the larger military). Full scale is where it's at.

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #19 on: 30 June 2012, 20:49:24 »
Well, I voted smaller scale conflicts, and other option. The second mostly since I feel that the options are a bit too narrow.

My reason for this is that the best example of what I like is the Galtor Campaign, which is A) 3rd Succession War = 1st option, B) a smaller scale conflict = 2nd option, and C) a multi-regimental action = 3rd option.

So in essence what I like is the 3rd Succession War semi-static situation where few planets change hands, and taking one requires multiple regiments. I have a general dislike of both too much focus on small unit actions, and total war blitzkrieg in space situations.

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #20 on: 01 July 2012, 10:45:22 »
Smaller scale conflicts, where two or three dozen guys decide the fate of an entire world.
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #21 on: 01 July 2012, 10:55:32 »
Big wars are good for the Plot books, but the stories need to stay on a smaller scale. I like seeing what the intrepid heroes are doing as part of the whole war effort.
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #22 on: 01 July 2012, 11:07:26 »
I love the smaller unit actions, although the large scale "national" battles are cool.  The excess of the Jihad, while neat, is not something I require.

So really, I would like to vote for the top three, but settled for the smallest and national scale.  Regimental is fine as well.  I'm not picky.  I just don't need planet-shattering levels of conflict all the time.
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #23 on: 03 July 2012, 14:18:34 »
I like when small unit is the focus within the context of a mid-sized conflict.

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #24 on: 04 July 2012, 17:25:33 »
While full scale warfare is interesting as a backdrop and for fictious historical background, the novels and fluff have always been about individuals like most adventure fiction. Situations don't have to be epic in order to create interesting stories, as some of the classic paperbacks have shown rather well (Wolves on the border and some GDL books) - even if the scale tends to generally escalate as a book progresses.

Personally, it's just more interesting to read fluff that is heavily set on an individual's level than plain battle reports, though for sourcebooks the latter is an exception. Especially for scenarios it's good to have more generic progress on the "historical" side of things with singular outtakes of individuals, which leaves the players more leeway to see how things turned out in their version of the encounters.

The Battletech rules themselves seem to work best in lance to company sized games, too, and some writers base their work heavily on the numerics. I don't have personal experience on the mass scale rules, mostly with lack of interest as my fluff tastes probably suggest already  ::)

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #25 on: 05 July 2012, 01:47:55 »
We should keep in mind, when they talk about 'level of conflict' they're not talking about the setting of individual stories within novels and the like. They're talking about 'over-all' level of conflict. Comparing the deep 3rd SSW of light raids and very small unit actions (D@TR level) to the War of 3039 and 4th SSW to the Clan Invasion to the Jihad and 1st/2nd SSWs. These are the backdrops, the levels of conflict, and individual actions within those arcs can range from Cassie Suthorn to VISD. Saying that I like low level raids because I want stories about individuals and small teams is probably going to result in miscommunication. It's quite possible to have stories set at grand, in-personal levels that involve slow, low-echelon grinding affairs of raids.

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #26 on: 05 July 2012, 17:54:28 »
Not to be retentive about it, but the question was "What scale of conflicts do you enjoy most in the BattleTech universe?" - and so the answer was based on personal enjoyment. I look at both ends of conflict scale as a writer's means to an end in fiction, and find them enjoyable for different reasons. But yes, it was likely miscommunication on my part if it wasn't apparent from the text.

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #27 on: 12 July 2012, 03:45:06 »
I personally do not mind the level of conflict that provides the backdrop for the story. A good writer will be able to make the story entertaining no matter what level of conflict after all. But I must say I do enjoy the stories where two nations need to band together so as to defeat a common foe. Like the Clan invasion or the Federated Suns and Lyran Alliance fighting against the Draconis Combine. (Though on seperate fronts so there was sadly almost no interaction)

I also have to say though that as much as I like those tales and the tales of galaxy wide conflict. I think I have burned out on it. We had the 4th Succession War, Clan Invasion, Operation Serpent and Bulldog, the FedCom Civil War (not that big a galaxy spanning conflict in comparison, but everyone still got involved) and the Jihad all happening within a little over 40 years from one another. I would like to see more regional style conflicts explored in the fluff and writing in the future. And such major wars being closer to a once in a century style affair.

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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #28 on: 12 July 2012, 13:37:08 »
What kind of conflicts do you enjoy reading about in fiction and sourcebooks?

  • Is it the scrounging down-on-your-luck setting of the late 3rd Succession Wars and the early Dark Age? When BattleMechs were scarce and often a Lance or Company would attack a plant?
  • Is it the era of small border changes, between the major offensives? A Battalion or Regiment attacks a world, either to capture loot or try to capture the planet?
  • The full scale wars of conquest between nations? War of 3039, 4th Succesion War, Operation Revival are prime examples. When multiple regiments would assault on a broad front, with the objective to capture territory.
  • The prospect of Total War. When every glove comes off. Factories are targets to deny to the enemy, collateral damage is ignored. Better to destroy a planet to get rid of the BattleMech factory, damn the civilians. Jihad, Age of War (pre-Ares Convention), 1st and 2nd Succession Wars are prime examples of this level of warfare.


This is more of an academic interest to me. I see so many varied opinions on the forums and elsewhere so I wish to sample what the population here believes.

Feel free to elaborate below, list various conflicts that you've enjoyed the most to read about.

Note - I am inquiring about in-universe conflicts levels, and not what scale level you play.

While I enjoy playing all, when i look at my favourite novels and short stories they are mostly set around the first two choices.
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Re: Level of conflict in the BattleTech universe (fluff)
« Reply #29 on: 14 July 2012, 15:43:41 »
Full-scale war. When you go Total War, it's more about the areospace battles to get into position to nuke people (IMO) while in a full-scale war, a company can still matter for raids and such. Unfortunatly, I didn't notice this wasn't radio buttons, or else I would've voted Small-Scale also.

 

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