Escort Unit

[Tangoforone]

What are your strategies for escorting assault assets that are slower?

Situation:
So the last game I played my slow moving assets were harassed by fast vehicles and mechs.  It held up my forces for two or three rounds, which led to a delayed victory and some of my other assets suffering unnecessary damage or complete loss.  So now I am in the market for low BV mechs or vehicles that can escort my slower units to make them a less desirable target. 

My thoughts:
-needs to be able to take hits.  This is because the escorts are going to be going the same speed as the slower units, until they need to chase something away which leads to the next point.  If the escorts can just get blown away by an AC20 mounted on a fast mover because it relies on the movement mods as protection then it isn't doing its job.
-needs to be fast enough to chase a light out of range of the heavies, then return to the assaults just as fast.  This should discourage the opponent from sticking around too long, and I won't have to completely stop the assault mechs so they can try to counteract the movement mods made by the harassers.
-Low BV:  this unit or group of units only job is to provide escort for slow assets.  That means whatever BV/cbills is sunk into this is going to be doing minimal work until the heavies are engaged in the primary opponents.  Once the heavies are in the fray, then the escorts can engage in combat a bit more, though they should still try to prevent harassers from targeting the back of my assault units

What to use:
Tracked/Hover:  this was my first thought as they are generally lower cost in BV than mechs.  However with the motive hits they can change from escorts to pillboxes in one or two die rolls.
VTOL:  I have not played these much, but this could be a good option as they could spread out a bit from the assaults and chase stuff down.  Not restricted by terrain as much as a mech or vehicle. My concerns would be fragility and armament.   
Mechs:  Kind of the obvious choice, but then it gets into what to choose. Do you go with a heavier mech that is armed to the teeth and deliberately stands still when the harassers are coming, or do you go with something lighter that can give chase easier?  In general these will be expensive in the bv cost, especially with what they are tasked to do.
Battlearmor/Infantry:  Not many players will be too fearful a single squad of infantry, but perhaps if there are several squads of infantry or battlearmor that are specifically armed for antimech combat perhaps the opposing player would think twice. 

What are your thoughts, and how do you protect your slow, heavy assets while they are entering the battle?  Or do you just keep your whole force together and wait until the heavies are in position before you start sending your fast movers out?

[Daryk]

This is literally one of the things medium 'mechs are built to do.  The classic 55-ton trio and the Phoenix Hawk are your primary 3025 choices.

[truetanker]

Could I interest you into see this?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Peacemaker_(IndustrialMech)#variants

426 BV2.... Battlemech Taser, MG w/ 100 ammo and a SRM-2 w/ 50 shots. Moves 4/6 is fusion powered...

Now support these with Light Thunderbolt Carriers, 714 BV2 each...

TT

[Tangoforone]

Daryk, I assumed the medium mechs would be the way to go.  I guess the deeper question would be what kind of strategy do people go with once they have their units figured out.  Do you go with the AC20 Hunchback (or something conceptually similar) or do you try to go with something faster that can give chase to the harassers for a round or two. Both have their benefits and drawbacks, and I am trying to see what others do.  I am a bit of a novice when it comes to lingo, so I don't know what you mean by the 55 ton trio.

I should have also given a time period, we are playing in early 3070's I believe, but thank you for the idea Truetanker!

[Weirdo]

For me, escorts are doing their job if on any given turn the backstabbers I'm worried about are outside of their medium range, or at least outside short. My ideal escort is not so much faster than its charges that I can be duped into sending it off by itself, but fast enough that it can maneuver to intercept attackers before they get too close, and at other times can maneuver around their charges to keep their own TMM up. This last bit is secondary, though. After all, every shot directed at an escort(wether it hits or not) is a mission success because it was not directed at the unit being escorted. Ideal weapons are close-in stuff of sufficient accuracy or firepower that the attacker does not want to be near it in normal circumstances. Pulse lasers are obviously ideal, but anything with enough punch to make light units nervous works just fine. If he doesn't want to be near my escort, and said escort is between him and his target in a way that prevents easy shots at said target, the escort is winning.

For close escort of big and slow units, I find mechanized infantry(not mech. BA, the conventional stuff) to be very useful, and dirt cheap. They're faster than they look on paper(3 mp infantry usually has no trouble keeping up with 3/5 units, or 4/6 stuff in confining terrain), and often have enough firepower that a backstabber has to worry about their damage combined with that of torso-twisting heavies.

[Kovax]

Anything that's dangerous enough (and slow enough) to require the attention of a Hunchback is just begging to be noticed by the Assaults that are being escorted.  If it's a lower-value harassment unit plaguing the advance, then the ideal counter is a fast escort that can keep it at a distance, hopefully kill or immobilize it, and return to its guard position quickly.  If something too big to deal with shows up, the fast escorts can fall back on the assaults for fire support.

Intruder cases in point:

Saladin - thicker armor to face it is nice, but something fast enough to go out and kill it before it gets into gun range is better, particularly if that fast something can easily get into a side arc where the AC/20 is nothing more than a heavy and expensive ornament hanging out of the nose.  I'd rather take a Locust against a Saladin than fight it with a Hunchback, where you're going to be WAY down on the to-hit numbers compared to the attacker, plus the attacker has enough ammo to risk poorer shots and the speed to put that big gun into a position where it will hurt the most.

LRM Carrier - making the long, deadly dash from long range to under minimum LRM range ASAP is helpful to survival.  A Hunchie will likely suffer a LOT of needless pounding before it can even shoot at the intruder.  The HBK doesn't bring anything to the table that the Assaults don't already do.  Something fast enough to go out and immobilize an opposing unit BEFORE it threatens your convoy would be better, and something with that kind of speed AND the firepower to actually kill the intruder would be better yet.

Phoenix Hawk - a light scout will probably have to run from this, but it's still not worth diverting the whole Assault group for.  A well-armed vehicle is a viable but risky counter, as immobilization is a real possibility.  This practically calls for a Medium 'Mech to counter a Medium 'Mech.


Ultimately, my preference would be a MIX of vehicles (hover and/or tracked, depending on terrain along the way), a pair of fast, light scout-hunters (Firestarter, Jenner, Wolfhound, Hermes I, Mongoose, Javelin, etc.), plus a pair of Medium 'Mechs with at least 5/8 speed.  One such party (3025) might consist of 2xPegasus or Saracen, 2xGoblin or Vedette, 2xFS, plus a PXH and Wolverine or Griffin.  Scale that up or down, according to the value of what it's escorting.  That will pose a serious threat to any lance-sized contingent that tries to interfere, and anything more dangerous than that probably deserves a bit of serious firepower from the Assaults anyway.  The whole scout group can fall back on the Assaults for protection in a pinch.


My choice:  Locust, Firestarter, 2xSaracen, 2xVedette, PXH, GRF.  It's got the combination of ranged firepower and speed for engaging and destroying vehicles or small parties of light/medium 'Mechs BEFORE they become a problem, or to go out and skirmish without getting left behind by the main force.  Your Assault force should arrive in good condition for the main event, or else the enemy will be hurting as a result of throwing a whole lot of stuff at them and losing it.

[Colt Ward]

For escorts IMO . . . you want a medium that can walk 5 or 6.  This allows them to be more accurate while maintaining the same advance, 6 gets you a single facing change.  When the fire starts coming in you need to be moving laterally to keep those TMMs up (jumping helps here) and hold to the flanks.  If you know where your assaults are going, I would suggest positioning one of those escorts where its going to deny the shortest path to its best firing position- for instance if its a 9/14 hover you are worried about, then moving your Wolverine to a position that blocks the direct path which will force that hover to flank and turn which forces PSRs to get the position.

I also think your previous escorts did they job . . . they are damage soaks to allow you to deliver your heavy hitters to the point of decision with minimal damage, helping to penetrate defensive lines depth.  So if you lost say a Centurion 9-D to concentrated fire against escorts but your Jagermech 7-F, Atlas 7-D, Saggitaire, and Templar C get into mid range with a few nicks in their armor because the enemy fire support was trying to push back your escorts so their strikers could swarm your assault team . . . then they did their job.  In a frontal attack, you will likely take losses- accept that and decide where they will occur.

Armor of course works better if you use veh survival rules and you can definitely select some tracks that will help cover the flanks of your assaults.  Being vehicles and considered 'weaker' they are going to draw more fire.  Turrets of course help them protect your mech's flanks.

For BA . . . consider the Fenrir.  I HATE facing them escorting the Lyran Wall of (Guass firing) Steel.  They can keep my Phantom H and Piranha out from behind that lumbering Thunderhawk which lets it keep sending Guass Rifle slugs at my Timberwolf E.  While most of them sport shorter ranged weapons, its what works for covering the flanks of a Lyran Wall of Steel.

[AlphaMirage]

Definitely agree with the above regarding Fenrirs, front, back, or on the flanks they are the natural partners of an Assault Company.

I also think units with autocannons that can fire precision rounds are a good fit.  A lance of heavy or medium weight tanks with precision ammo will make strike hovercraft or light mech pilot really nervous.

[Firesprocket]

What era is it specifically that you are playing in and need the advise for?

[Sabelkatten]

I like the (generally rather crappy) Battle Hawk as a bodyguard. Sure it's not the sturdiest unit around, but it can take still a few lumps, and those tripple MPLs can be rather painful to a lot of fast units. It's also pretty cheap (in BV) and fast enough to maneuver around 3/5 or 4/6 heavy/assault mechs.

[RoundTop]

One of my go-tos is a Komodo (3053).  It is only 45t, moves 5/8/5, but with 10 medium lasers, 2 AMS, an guardian ECM it can a) Protect itself, b) protect the assaults from C3 or other EW, and c) Punch the lights out of something that comes close.  Yes it has an XL engine, but honestly it is meant to draw fire and kill things.

[Sartris]

the Uziel 8S is a great little terror weapon

but if you want to stunt on the enemy as hard as you can, just park a flamberge 3 back there

[Sharkapult]

Generally I look for units with relatively long short range brackets and no minimum range.
Large lasers, or (ERLL), AC10s (LBX10s) rule. If you are getting into more modern sets use precision rounds. Don't discount arty direct fired or homing either. Smacks the hex with AoE damage and you don't need to be precise to hit a hex.
Other than that if you are using smoke rules try to have your heavy hitters walking through smoke cover. Use a spotter unit and your heavy hitters can indirect LRM fire.
Mines, deployed via thunder LRM deter or slow down some units.

[Daryk]

For the OP: When I say "55 ton trio" in a 3025 context, I'm talking about the Wolverine, Griffin and Shadow Hawk.  They're all 5/8 and jump (the Shadow Hawk only jumps 3, but the others are 5).  I'm less familiar with the 3070 era, and will bow to the others who know better.

[Weirdo]

Another thing you might look for are missiles and deep ammo bins. Dropping smoke in the right place means blocking LoS between your charges and their attackers. No LoS, no shots, no problem. Same with mines. Deny easy approaches, and you're denying easy attacks.

[maxcarrion]

I would start by suggesting that you're making a mistake if you buy an escort and all they are doing is escorting.  If you're running your 4 assault mechs to target then you shouldn't be buying 1 medium mech to protect them and then discarding it when you contact the main force - you should be buying 4 medium mechs which run interference against the enemy harassers punishing anything daring enough to try and close on the rear of the assaults and then when you reach the primary objective you hit it with the entire force - i.e. the medium mechs aren't a bv sink that's wasted when they arrive, they are a manoeuvre element that uses superior manoeuvrability to position against harassers and still arrive on objective at the same time as the hammer force to make a combined strike or possibly swing round at contact to strike a flank.

How about an example I hear you ask?

Let's say that you have a 3025 lance of mechs, let's say you're going through a somewhat urban area and you know then enemy has a couple of bug mechs, a Jenner and at least 1 Hetzer in the area, maybe some other forces too - you're trying to get your main assault force to an enemy compound as quick as you can but you know the bugs and jenner are going to try and backstab and harass you and every time you turn around and stop your force it buys some time for the enemy to evacuate.

Your force
Atlas - This is your biggest, slowest assault mech, ideally this will go flat out by a reasonably straight route to the compound laying down fire only in passing

Battlemaster - A slightly faster assault element I would run the Battlemaster a short distance (maybe 90m) behind the atlas, anything that tries to hit the Atlas is a prime target for the Battlemaster and the Battlemaster can slow down to engage and then catch up again as long as it only does so briefly

Wolverine - This is what I think you're referring to as the escort unit, trailing at the back the Wolverine will continually position itself to present a hard target and a decent amount of firepower to whatever is trying to sneak up behind you but when you reach the enemy compound it will still be a significant striking element - anything that gets between the Battlemaster and Wolverine is asking for a beating, anything that stays behind the Wolverine isn't threatening your assault element and the Wolverine can easily stop and engage and then quickly catch up with the Assaults

Javelin - Running point is the nippy little Javelin - this unit is doing its best to ensure the Atlas isn't strolling into a trap - Hetzers gonna Hetz after all and urban areas are often rife with Infantry units that can be bypassed rather than fought through.  Occassionally this unit will engage, a volley of SRMs can easily immobilise a vehicle with motive crits, but mostly this little fella is scouting up front so that the Atlas doesn't walk into anything he won't walk out of.

[Red Pins]

Helios is fluffed as a St. Ives Compact answer to, "Who escorts the Emperors, Pillagers, and Victors?"

Never used it myself.  If I had to escort something 3/5, I'd use tanks.

[Hellraiser]

Given the era & mission.

I might give serious thought to something that packs standard ACs & be able to use precision ammo v/s those Saladins before they get into reach of the Assaults.
Stuff like a Warrior that can snipe outside range of most harrassers is a solid option too if your just looking for some mobility hits.


Or just use something with decent range but is cheaper than an Atlas.

Say Manticore tank,  LRM & PPC to keep things away & ML+SRM to crit/immobilize if they do get close.   

Something like the Jagermech is also solid for lots of Precision AC love & its super cheap.

[Kovax]

While a lance of 55 ton mediums (or their later era functional equivalents) might be the most "effective" escort, it's not a cheap one.  A lance of fairly hard-hitting vehicles with moderate or high speed (5/8 or faster) come in at a tenth the cost, and a pair of decent Light 'Mechs at half the price.  The lights can scout ahead or race out to deal with fast hovers or other lights, and the vehicles can guard the flanks and threaten anything that tries to close before it reaches weapon range to the main advance.  A medium 'Mech would be a nice but more expensive addition, or a sub for one of the lights, but that boosts the cost considerably.

If I'm given an assignment to slow the advance of some group of Assault 'Mechs, but not enough firepower to actually engage them and force them to halt the advance, then I'm probably going to either race in, take a shot or two to force them to turn and deal with me, and then get out before they can concentrate fire on me, or else set up some kind of ambush.  With scout 'Mechs or a light vehicle leading the advance, and a couple of vehicles on each flank taking shots as I close AND as I try to escape, it's likely to get REAL expensive for me in a hurry.  If I try taking out the escort first, I'm not slowing the main group until that's done, and the escort I'm picking on will likely call in some of the other members of its lance to make my task more difficult.  Meanwhile, the Assaults just keep plodding forward, taking a few shots to assist if anything gets too close.

As a defender trying to halt the assault group, if I'm given enough firepower to actually deal with all of the escorts, then it's probably worth the attacker's time to crush my force with their Assaults while I'm engaging the escorts.  Yes, I've slowed the assault group, but at an unaffordable price.  I would probably have been more effective if I had joined the defenders at the destination, rather than being taken out piecemeal while buying only a few seconds or minutes of extra time.

A Manticore or couple of Hetzers running parallel to the advance won't stop an LRM Carrier from lobbing LRMs over the nearby hill, but a Locust or Pegasus can race around the hill and threaten the LRM Carrier, OR chase down the spotter.  On the other hand, the Locust won't stop a Firestarter from racing in to backstab the trailing Assault, but the Hetzer following behind might ultimately make it a losing proposition.  Depending on whether the scenario is being tailored around money, BV, or in-universe forces, the actual "right answer" will vary.

The escort vehicles can still provide meaningful fire support for the eventual attack when the group reaches its destination, while the scout 'Mechs will still be able to shield the main attack from anything trying to interfere from behind or to the flanks, as well as to either block or assist escape if needed.  It's not like the escorts get "disposed of" when the assault group arrives.  More likely, once the assault is complete, they get reassigned back to wherever they were pulled from.

Basically, the escort group needs at least a few fast maneuver units, and at least one or two units with longer-ranged weapons to hold opposing snipers at a safe distance.  Vehicles are far cheaper in that role, and easier to obtain in most cases, and should be adequate for at least PART of the task.  In most cases, a combined arms approach can beat an "all"-anything.

[Tangoforone]

Thank you everyone for the feedback!  A bunch of interesting ideas floating around that I will have to look into utilizing within future games to see what works best for me. 

I was thinking about this topic while showering, and had a potentially crazy, potentially brilliant idea (as one does while showering).  What mech is low enough in BV, carries a decent amount of firepower that it can scare away most light units, and doesn't have to slow down it's forward moving momentum if something comes from behind?  The Urbanmech of course :D Running two or three of these at 500 BV each gives you vehicle BV cost, a few AC10s, and 360 degree torso rotation which means, if I understand the rules for torso twisting correctly, that you may never show your rear armor to the lighter assets that are shooting you in the rear.  Also, since it is a mech, you are no longer running the risk that vehicles inherently carry with them (motive hits, movement restrictions on the map, etc.).

Obviously having fast units to try and head off the opponent flankers is important, but my thought would be to put the venerable Urbies behind the assault lance as everyone moves forward; this way no matter where the flankers end up, if they are in range the Urbies would fire at them.  Two to four AC10s coming at you, even if they miss, would be enough to make me reconsider my strategy.

Am I insane, or is there potential for the Urbanmech to go from laughable trashcan to competent and inexpensive escort unit for your assault lance?  Let me know!

[Daryk]

That's not how torso twisting works, actually.  It only rotates your firing arcs, not the what side takes damage.

[Sartris]

iirc it has a 360 degree twist in MWO. if you play with canon optional quirks, the urbie gets extended twist, which means it can twist two hexsides instead of one. you then have 360 coverage with arm weapons.

[Weirdo]

Yeah, it will has rear armor facing issues same as every other mech in existence...but aside from that, it's not a horrible idea. Do this with LB-X Urbies, and your assault lance also has AA cover.

If there's a canon Urbanmech out there with the Ack-ten and two tons of ammo, you could also run one with a decent combat load of precision ammo.

[Tangoforone]

Well bugger.  Both of those clarifications put a wrench in my plans.  But thank you for the explanations, always good to know the correct rules. 

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Even without extended torso twist, it lacks lower arm and hand actuators and is therefore capable of arm-flipping to shoot anything that gets behind it, so long as you're not using the Arrow IV variant (but we all know that that variant doesn't do anything but waddle around and nuke people).

[Kovax]

The bigger issue with an UrbanMech is that it's only 2/3/2 movement.  That will slow the advance down from a slow 3/5 plod to a 2/3 crawl.  Don't do it.

As said, combined arms gets you the best of both worlds at a fraction of the cost.  A couple of "heavier Light" scout 'Mechs (6/9/6 or faster) gives you the mobility and resilience of a 'Mech to chase down anything threatening around the edges, and the heavier firepower riding closer to the convoy is more cheaply served by turreted vehicles at 4/6.  The enemy ends up facing a "soft" extended perimeter that requires at least a moderate amount of durability and/or firepower to bypass the scouts, and if they do push, they end up in a firefight against the heavier vehicles.  If they're bringing enough firepower for that, then they're well worth the attention of the Assaults anyway.

[Weirdo]

The bigger issue with an UrbanMech is that it's only 2/3/2 movement.  That will slow the advance down from a slow 3/5 plod to a 2/3 crawl.  Don't do it.

That's the beauty of the Urbanmech. It gets steadily left behind, but the good range of the main gun means the area behind your assaults is consistently covered by high-damage guns with short to medium range modifiers. Makes me really wish the Marik Urbie had a Light Gauss.

[truetanker]

What about paired Behemoth Tanks, a Heavy LRM Carrier and a Urbie-UR60L, the Liao AC/20 toter!

Whole unit is slower than crap, but who wants to run into it?

TT

[Weirdo]

I like to run Marian units like that every so often. Watching them in action is akin to watching a steamroller on a gentle slope with the gear in neutral. Ain't going anywhere fast, but if you steer it right...good luck stopping it. >:D

With forces like that, my ideal escort is the foot infantry platoon. :)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Know what's fun about facing squads like that?

They're so slow that when you set the area on fire they can't outrun it. >:D