Author Topic: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150  (Read 2404 times)

Tangoforone

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Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« on: 21 August 2019, 14:26:57 »
How has infantry changed across time, both in-universe and game mechanics?

Game mechanics:  reading through TRO 3025 (the OG version), I didn't see any infantry so I would imagine they would have been in a rulebook from the 80's.  Is that correct?  Would they have been similar to the standard infantry rules in 'Total Warfare'?  I've only been playing a few years, so I don't have knowledge from decades ago.

In-Universe:  does the equipment that they have access to change between 3025 and 3150, or even just 3025 and 3075?  Or does later books/expansions (Tac Ops and Strat Ops for example) just expand on the available equipment that they would have and allow for more creation rules?

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #1 on: 21 August 2019, 14:47:26 »
Don't think that ground infantry has changed too much in universe as much as the rules have change to make combined arms more appealing.

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #2 on: 21 August 2019, 14:56:56 »
Does battle armor count?

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #3 on: 21 August 2019, 15:08:59 »
Or does later books/expansions (Tac Ops and Strat Ops for example) just expand on the available equipment that they would have and allow for more creation rules?

Basically this.  Until relatively recently, infantry platoons had very basic stats - 1 damage point for each soldier in the platoon, with a set amount of damage per troop and weapon range depending on what kind of weapons they carried.  Movement was set based on whether they were foot, motorised or jump, with varying weights depending on movement type. Rather than having a unique record sheet, the infantry sheet listed all options.

Infantry platoon construction rules first appeared in Combat Operations in 2003, but were only used to generate faction-custom platoons that appeared in the Handbooks. These rules formed the basis for the platoon creation rules that appeared in TechManual.  Total Warfare altered the infantry rules a bit, and listed new default platoon types - adding rifle as a weapon type and mechanised as a movement option.  The only TRO to include infantry stats in 3085, with the Republic platoons in TRO:3085 Supplemental correlating to the default foot rifle, jump laser and motorised machine gun platoons.
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victor_shaw

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #4 on: 21 August 2019, 15:20:09 »
How has infantry changed across time, both in-universe and game mechanics?

Not much

Game mechanics:  reading through TRO 3025 (the OG version), I didn't see any infantry so I would imagine they would have been in a rulebook from the 80's.  Is that correct?  Would they have been similar to the standard infantry rules in 'Total Warfare'?  I've only been playing a few years, so I don't have knowledge from decades ago.

Rules wise, not much from the original write-up provided in the 1986 Citytech box set.
More types have been added and there are more options for infantry survivability and effectiveness, such as armor and support weapons but the core mechanics are still the same.

In-Universe:  does the equipment that they have access to change between 3025 and 3150, or even just 3025 and 3075?  Or does later books/expansions (Tac Ops and Strat Ops for example) just expand on the available equipment that they would have and allow for more creation rules?

Some what, but a lot of this has to do with rule expansion and less with "In-Universe" reasons.
Example: From some novels/stories, Mechwarrior 1st ed, and back tracking source/scenario books we can assume that support weapons were always a thing, but it took years for them to be given TTG rules
So a good part of the option they currently have can be retcon into the game as always being around "In-Universe"
« Last Edit: 21 August 2019, 15:27:40 by victor_shaw »

Maelwys

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #5 on: 21 August 2019, 22:42:04 »
How has infantry changed across time, both in-universe and game mechanics?

Game mechanics:  reading through TRO 3025 (the OG version), I didn't see any infantry so I would imagine they would have been in a rulebook from the 80's.  Is that correct?  Would they have been similar to the standard infantry rules in 'Total Warfare'?  I've only been playing a few years, so I don't have knowledge from decades ago.

Prior to Total Warfare, infantry took damage on a 1 to 1 basis when it came to Mech-scale weapons. If you hit a platoon with a Gauss Rifle, then the platoon took 15 points of damage. Total Warfare changed this, giving mech-scale weaponry formulas for figuring out how much damage they'd do to infantry.

Also, while infantry platoons prior to TW were pretty generic, with mostly differences based on movement and weaponry, TW introduced the Mechanized platoon which takes more damage from mech scale weaponry, and less damage from conventional infantry weapons.

Also, Combat Equipment and Tacops brought in faction specific armor and armor divisors that let the infantry take more damage if so equipped.

Quote
In-Universe:  does the equipment that they have access to change between 3025 and 3150, or even just 3025 and 3075?  Or does later books/expansions (Tac Ops and Strat Ops for example) just expand on the available equipment that they would have and allow for more creation rules?

Like most things in BT, equipment has expanded somewhat. New weapons give new options .

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #6 on: 21 August 2019, 23:20:17 »
like crossbows and clubs!

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #7 on: 22 August 2019, 07:35:31 »
How has infantry changed across time, both in-universe and game mechanics?

Game mechanics:  reading through TRO 3025 (the OG version), I didn't see any infantry so I would imagine they would have been in a rulebook from the 80's.  Is that correct?  Would they have been similar to the standard infantry rules in 'Total Warfare'?  I've only been playing a few years, so I don't have knowledge from decades ago.

If memory serves infantry and vehicles were introduced in the first edition of CityTech. As mentioned already the biggest difference was that they took full damage from 'Mech scale weapons, so an AC/20 could wipe out a platoon PDQ. (I was going to suggest you get the Vintage Rulebook Bundle if you were really interested, BUT it doesn't have the CityTech rules.)

In-Universe:  does the equipment that they have access to change between 3025 and 3150, or even just 3025 and 3075?  Or does later books/expansions (Tac Ops and Strat Ops for example) just expand on the available equipment that they would have and allow for more creation rules?
Yes and yes.

First yes: As technology is recovered, infantry weapons become better and new types of infantry weapons are introduced.

Second yes: TacOps does expand on the infantry weapons and provides rules for new types of specialist infantry platoons like mountain troops, beast-mounted dragoons, and hostile environment experts.
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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #8 on: 22 August 2019, 07:56:20 »
Total Warfare altered the infantry rules a bit, and listed new default platoon types - adding rifle as a weapon type and mechanised as a movement option. 
Rifle Infantry has been available since CityTech's first edition. Mechanized infantry, however, is a neophyte of TW, yes.

Note: In CityTech from 1986, Mechanized Infantry existed as a type, but they became what's now called motorized and their game play values reflected that. Mechanized Infantry had 3 or 2 MP, depending on their weaponry.
« Last Edit: 22 August 2019, 08:00:38 by Ursus Maior »
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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #9 on: 22 August 2019, 07:59:03 »
If memory serves infantry and vehicles were introduced in the first edition of CityTech. As mentioned already the biggest difference was that they took full damage from 'Mech scale weapons, so an AC/20 could wipe out a platoon PDQ. (I was going to suggest you get the Vintage Rulebook Bundle if you were really interested, BUT it doesn't have the CityTech rules.)

The BattleTech Manual is basically a reprint of the CityTech and AeroTech rulebooks so it's sorta in there.
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Col Toda

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #10 on: 22 August 2019, 09:36:53 »
The Roles remains the same but numbers and equipment change . Example an APC with whatever infantry or battle armor lives through a battle salvage can begin immediately with little chance of another fight to determine who gets the salvage ( This never changes only conventional infantry or battle armor does ) the role remains the same . A plattoon of Engineers in exoskeletons with mission equipment does the work of a company or more with less life support between planets : again mission is the same the tools used is different . Field Guns with muliple crews in 3025 AC 10 has to live 10 combat turns after revealed ( a very tall order ) . While a Field gun in 3075 AC 10 Ultra might live to fire 5 times in ultra mode. before they lose too many people to operate the gun .

Carbon Elasmobranch

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #11 on: 22 August 2019, 15:03:58 »
Rifle Infantry has been available since CityTech's first edition. Mechanized infantry, however, is a neophyte of TW, yes.

Note: In CityTech from 1986, Mechanized Infantry existed as a type, but they became what's now called motorized and their game play values reflected that. Mechanized Infantry had 3 or 2 MP, depending on their weaponry.

Rifle platoons also did a whole lot less damage back then (about a quarter of troopers that hit equaled one whole point), and what little they did inflict was typically ascribed to the use of incidental, untracked disposable weapons like LAWs rather than their rifles. Kind of a stark contrast to the present of TW, where LAWs and a bizarrely high number of other support weapons somehow deal less damage than the space AKs.

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #12 on: 22 August 2019, 15:24:08 »
In BattleDroids, infantry deployed in nine-man squads (no doubt the reason the original APCs had such small infantry compartments) which could deal only two damage to a 'Mech. A squad was destroyed by a single point of damage, with excess damage spilling over to any other squads in the same hex (up to ten total).
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Tangoforone

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #13 on: 22 August 2019, 15:44:07 »
Thanks everyone for the information.  It seems that the mechanics to infantry have been pretty friendly as the game as evolved. 

Are there any reference books that would be recommended that refer to specific faction infantry groups and their various bits of equipment? 

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #14 on: 22 August 2019, 15:51:21 »
Just pulling a number out of my butt, I'd guess that 90-odd percent of all infantry deployed by the major powers are the generic platoons described in Total War. If you want more detail for these regular troops, you can use the advanced infantry armor kits found in TacOps.

For more specialized troops, TRO 3085 and 3085 Supplemental have a very large number of more detailed units. And despite their being grouped into faction-based sections, a lot of them are usable by many factions, or might even be universally available.
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victor_shaw

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #15 on: 22 August 2019, 15:55:32 »
Thanks everyone for the information.  It seems that the mechanics to infantry have been pretty friendly as the game as evolved. 

Are there any reference books that would be recommended that refer to specific faction infantry groups and their various bits of equipment?

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #16 on: 22 August 2019, 16:05:47 »
3085 and 85 supplement have the exotic infantry (I assume that was an understandable typo

For reference, 3058 has most of the first generation battle armor suits

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #17 on: 22 August 2019, 16:16:50 »
BattleTroops had factional squad break downs too, didn't it?
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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #18 on: 22 August 2019, 17:07:04 »
BattleTroops had factional squad break downs too, didn't it?

There were platoon organizations. Specifically, by squad type, e.g. Davion MG, Kurita Rifle, Liao Laser, Marik Flamer & Hvy. Flamer, and Steiner SRM. Unfortunately, my phone won't shrink the photos small enough to post. These squad types predate TW, but do list individual weapons, e.g. Blazers, Hvy. SRM, Auto Grenade Launcher, etc.

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #19 on: 26 August 2019, 07:39:27 »
Groundhog / made by Blue Shot ? An Exoskeleton in the vehicle Annex . Mission Equipment for Salvage crews or other job . Can lift 1 metric ton per suit .

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Re: Evolution of Infantry from 3025 to 3150
« Reply #20 on: 30 August 2019, 03:53:53 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkok32HKl2g&feature=youtu.be

Is probably what would be a good display of Motorized infantry.
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