Author Topic: Tell me about the Blackwatch  (Read 3391 times)

grimlock1

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Tell me about the Blackwatch
« on: 30 September 2014, 09:37:04 »
It's not speedy but it can jump, so that's something.  The standard engine makes side torso destruction survivable.  The armor is enough that make me sit up and take notice.  The arsenal has me feeling conflicted.  On the one hand, there is a certain elegance that reminds me of the old 3S Banshee. For some inexplicable reason the weapon combo gives me warm and fuzzy feelings.  But when the i start trying to figure out how to use this kilt wearing monstrosity, I start wondering if I can find a set of 'mech scale bag pipes anywhere.... 

Its totally ammo dependant.  Assault 'mechs in the Succession Wars could mount a pair of medium lasers as their ammo-free backup weapons and call it good. This beast doesn't even have one laser.  'Mechs like the Hollander or Blitzkrieg are totally ammo dependant as well, but they are both pack a big single location weapon.  Some one might be able to sell me on the math that having 5 medium lasers is better than 1 AC/20, but there is a brown pants factor to those big hole punchers that is lacking from the Blackwatch.  Yes, that MRM-40 can throw a lot of metal down range but between the +1 to hit, their fair to middling range, and the 'mech's mediocre speed, I'm pretty confident I can avoid most of the pain there. Besides, so long as I'm not breached, that MRM-40 will hurt the first hit or two but its something I loose sleep over. Which brings me to the LGR and uAC/10. Two great weapons... on a heavy mech. Not enough punch for a 3/5/3 85 tonner.

You can't really afford float at range and nibble the other guy down, especially if the other guy is an assault 'mech.  The bins just aren't deep enough.

The Jihad variant would have been great, if the could have kept the MRM's.  HPPC and Gauss rifle to float at range and crack the other guy's armor.  Move in and finish him off with a Macross Missile Massacre. As it stands, a pair of MML 7s will throw more SRMs down range that I really want to deal with, if I've been getting the business from a pair of 15 pointers for the last couple of turns....

Is there some subtle use I'm missing with this machine or is it just something that looks good on paper?
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Mattlov

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #1 on: 30 September 2014, 09:43:20 »
I think that if you believe the standard BW looks good on paper, you may want to re-evaluate your criteria.

It is slow, underwheling, ammo dependent firepower, and unable to engage well at any range except dead close.  But then at dead close, the LGR is under the minimum.

It can't engage opponents well at any range, and when it can engage them, it doesn't do much damage.

The Jihad version seems pretty solid, I haven't used it yet.  But I might now.
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grimlock1

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #2 on: 30 September 2014, 10:00:09 »
I think that if you believe the standard BW looks good on paper, you may want to re-evaluate your criteria.
"Look's good on paper," was a poor choice of words.  Perhaps "at first glance," would be better.
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Orin J.

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #3 on: 30 September 2014, 11:04:35 »
The Black watch is a perfect example of how to compromise. which is to say, it reminds everyone that a good compromise is where nobody's happy with the result.

i dimly recall trying to make a version mounting single heat sinks that was more effective and pulling it off, which stands as an example of how successfully it was compromised.
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mbear

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #4 on: 30 September 2014, 12:29:30 »
The Black watch is a perfect example of how to compromise. which is to say, it reminds everyone that a good compromise is where nobody's happy with the result.

i dimly recall trying to make a version mounting single heat sinks that was more effective and pulling it off, which stands as an example of how successfully it was compromised.

And your compromise definition is a good one. IIRC the Black Watch was a marketing tool to show how the Second Star League could come together. So you get a lot of signature weapons from the Great Houses. The FWL provided the Light Gauss Rifle, while the Combine provided the MRM system. No idea where the rest of it came from though.

It could easily replace the UAC/10 with an ERPPC and some heat sinks. Or two ERPPCs. Or an additional Light Gauss Rifle.

At least the C3 slave lets it work with other units, but that's a small consolation.
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Savage Coyote

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #5 on: 30 September 2014, 12:30:35 »
I've fought against one like, twice.  The memorable one was in Plano TX at Another GarageCon.  I was in command of an Albatross, Hammer (variant with all the ML's) and an Initiate (and yes, I got stuck playing Wobblies so other people could play their choice.  I'm a good CGL rep like that  :D )  Anyway, the mission was to protect the dropship so it could lift off.  I forget why I did it, but I got tired of tossing out token long-range fire and charged a Draconis Combine/Star League force that was bearing down on our position.  Other WoB players followed while Weirdo organized the the resistance on the other flank.  The first two 'mechs we ran into was a Black Watch and Timber Wolf B or C.  I think the impressions were pretty good so far in this thread.  My three 'mechs with maybe one other had the Black Watch down on it's back without a leg while it did nothing in return.  I believe I ended up critting the MRM pretty early and that was that.  It's only saving grace was not dying.  I solved that by parking the Albatross next to it and kicking it for a few turns and finally killing it.

Long story short, it just wasn't much of a threat, and they missed the big MRM shot when he got into pointblank with my AlbatrossAlbatross kicked his leg off and the Black Watch kicked the Hammer's leg out.  Just underwhelming for a standard engine armor bucket...

GreekFire

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #6 on: 30 September 2014, 13:07:11 »
Even the upgrade, with the dual headcappers, isn't great. Get a crit on the left arm, and you've got a roughly 58% chance of losing your 'Mech there and then. Get a crit on the left torso, you've got another 58% chance of losing your 'Mech there and then. If it had CASE instead of a ton of MML ammo or the TAG, then it'd be a lot more attractive to me.

But...it doesn't. So that's that.
« Last Edit: 30 September 2014, 13:08:53 by GreekFire »
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grimlock1

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #7 on: 30 September 2014, 14:24:58 »
So everything I'm hearing suggests that I wasn't far off.  This thing really is a turd.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Fat Guy

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #8 on: 30 September 2014, 14:28:23 »
Now that's just insulting to turds.   
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blitzy

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #9 on: 30 September 2014, 18:32:56 »
I always thought the Black watch suffered from new toy syndrome too much.  A gauss, a PPC and either the MRM or an LRM-20.
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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #10 on: 30 September 2014, 21:56:04 »
Cosra made amends for it with their next design, the Targe.

Wait....
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SteelRaven

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #11 on: 01 October 2014, 00:30:57 »
It may be built around the Crockett's chassis but reads like a poor attempt at a knock off Highlander...  by the guy who 'make' the Highlander! What the hell Cosara! :P It would be a better 'mech if Cosara wasn't trying to make a Diet Highlander but it is what it is and has already been overshadowed by better mechs
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grimlock1

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #12 on: 01 October 2014, 07:19:04 »
Either amusingly or disturbingly, I tried regressing a Blackwatch down to Succession Wars tech and it didn't suffer too badly.  The BV was technically lower, but the regressed version had some energy weapons.  I think a PPC and some medium lasers.  It felt like a better balanced design.
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Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

mbear

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Re: Tell me about the Blackwatch
« Reply #13 on: 02 October 2014, 07:12:21 »
It may be built around the Crockett's chassis but reads like a poor attempt at a knock off Highlander...  by the guy who 'make' the Highlander! What the hell Cosara! :P It would be a better 'mech if Cosara wasn't trying to make a Diet Highlander but it is what it is and has already been overshadowed by better mechs
All that aside, it might be possible to make some nice one off Black Watch 'Mechs. If they sucked that bad that Cosara might have dumped them on the mercenary/militia market cheap.

After all, we're all basically complaining about the weaponry. The chassis itself is adequate, even if it needs a bigger engine.
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Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)