Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!

[RifleMech]

Weak underbelly is a good idea.
Yes it allows for MGs to be used as AMS.
Good idea.

Thanks.
As that's the case, what other weapon could this quirk apply to?
Thanks.

Most weapons still get an entire firing arc from the traverse/etc from their aiming systems. But with things like a mass driver on a WarShip, there can be cases there are no aiming systems at all.

Does this quirk really work then?

Comm equipment, high recoil weapons, artillery, anything that can't be used while mobile or that needs extra preparation before usage.

Com Equipment can't be used while mobile?  As for the weapons, I'm going to guess it's dependent on the weapon, chassis or both. May I suggest a Heavy Recoil Quirk instead? "This weapon's recoil is heavier than standard and units that aren't properly braced must make a PSR. A failed roll results in a crash/fall." An example would be the PPC Locust. The recoil from it's PPC can knock it over.

Mostly yes, but I think that making it date depended would be flexible. 
Possibly.

Date or equivalent date to cover new units built to old standards.

Maybe tie it to a Poor Fire Control System or weapon that is Manually Reloaded so that the vehicle requires more crew than normal? The vehicle with a normal crew numbers operates as if they were short crew members?

I do have a draft document that needs some work and testing, but it covers a few ideas, some taken from fluff in earlier TROs.

I also used a classification based on weapon BV to grade weapons, instead of the ad-hoc systems of tonnage and damage that have emerged around quirks affecting different scales of equipment.

Quirks begin on page four. Equipment classes start at the bottom of page one.

I didn't get through it all but what I read was either confusing or already covered with existing quirks and rules..

There's an old apocryphal mech from StarDrive, called the Junior, with some very interesting quirks (which predate the actual Design Quirks rules).

For example, its targeting and tracking system has a lower penalty when its damaged at the expense of only being able to use up to three weapons at once, and the mech tends to shut down randomly whenever you enter water.

I actually use the Shure-Shott CL-541/9 TTS on all of my mechs with exactly three weapons.

Cool.

[Maingunnery]

Thanks.
As that's the case, what other weapon could this quirk apply to?
Thanks.

Anything small enough to count as a point-defense weapon in Aerospace.

Does this quirk really work then?

Why wouldn't it?

Com Equipment can't be used while mobile?  As for the weapons, I'm going to guess it's dependent on the weapon, chassis or both. May I suggest a Heavy Recoil Quirk instead? "This weapon's recoil is heavier than standard and units that aren't properly braced must make a PSR. A failed roll results in a crash/fall." An example would be the PPC Locust. The recoil from it's PPC can knock it over.

A lot of 20st and 21st century equipment can't be used while on the move, and that is what the quirk would represent.

[RifleMech]

Anything small enough to count as a point-defense weapon in Aerospace.
Why wouldn't it?
A lot of 20st and 21st century equipment can't be used while on the move, and that is what the quirk would represent.

The problem with that is that machine guns are the only point defense weapon we have that dates back that far and I don't remember them having a penalty when used as point defense. Maybe tie it to the Fire Control System instead of weapons? Basic Fire Control with this quirk reduces the number of missiles hit by half. No Fire Control reduces the number by 3/4. I'm not sure this could apply to dropshuttles and primitive jumpships though.

Because that would apply to pretty much all guns and cannons that weren't arm mounted or on a flexible mount. Even weapons in a turret could only fire down the line of hexes it's pointing at instead of an arc.

Other than physical weapons and installations what can't be used while on the move that isn't already covered by the rules? I can see a specific brand of weapon but not the whole class.

[Hazard Pay]

Reduced Sway/Improved Grouping

3(?) Points per Weapon, can only be taken once per weapon , can only be applied to Artillery

Thumper, Sniper, and Long Tom Artillery with this Quirk reduce shell displacement by -1 Hex

[Maingunnery]

The problem with that is that machine guns are the only point defense weapon we have that dates back that far and I don't remember them having a penalty when used as point defense. Maybe tie it to the Fire Control System instead of weapons? Basic Fire Control with this quirk reduces the number of missiles hit by half. No Fire Control reduces the number by 3/4. I'm not sure this could apply to dropshuttles and primitive jumpships though.

It future proofing in cases we get more PD weapons of those eras.

Because that would apply to pretty much all guns and cannons that weren't arm mounted or on a flexible mount. Even weapons in a turret could only fire down the line of hexes it's pointing at instead of an arc.

There is quite a bit of difference between some aiming capacity and none. Just look at the mass driver rules.

Other than physical weapons and installations what can't be used while on the move that isn't already covered by the rules? I can see a specific brand of weapon but not the whole class.

Not really, BT has or assumes that everything is usable while on the move, which is quite a bit more advanced than RL.

[Daryk]

*snip*
A lot of 20st and 21st century equipment can't be used while on the move, and that is what the quirk would represent.

Sure, plenty of systems are under-engineered these days (says the Navy guy)... ::)

[RifleMech]

It future proofing in cases we get more PD weapons of those eras.
There is quite a bit of difference between some aiming capacity and none. Just look at the mass driver rules.
Not really, BT has or assumes that everything is usable while on the move, which is quite a bit more advanced than RL.

Why would l machine guns still work but pre-primitive prototype lasers wouldn't?
Support vehicles with no gunners and no fire control also have  a +2. Mass Drivers appear to be aimed the same way, by aiming the vehicle.
Outside the heaviest weapons, when used on land, and by infantry, they can be used on the move. Just not as accurately. I can see even modern weapons having the quirk though but only specific brands, not a whole class.

[Jeyar123]

Surge Protection - damage to the pilot, whether due to electrical or air pressure surges is reduced by one. Due to an accidental design confluence, when the current is going to be too high and damage the pilot, the circuit is cut out for a time, similarly, the anti noise baffling has enough give that massive pressure waves that can harm the pilot are also reduced a degree. 

[Charistoph]

I almost want a negative to that Quirk to go along with it, as part of my experience with electronics and wiring.

Or maybe a negative Quirk to go against it?  Like "Poor Wiring", any time there is an Ammo explosion, roll for each Energy Weapon to see if it faults/cycles it's power setting.

[Maingunnery]

Why would l machine guns still work but pre-primitive prototype lasers wouldn't?

I didn't say that.

Support vehicles with no gunners and no fire control also have  a +2. Mass Drivers appear to be aimed the same way, by aiming the vehicle.

That are two completely different causes.

Outside the heaviest weapons, when used on land, and by infantry, they can be used on the move. Just not as accurately. I can see even modern weapons having the quirk though but only specific brands, not a whole class.

Whole class? Quirks are for specific equipment/vehicle combinations.

[Lycanphoenix]

Positive quirk: Undocumented feature
Negative quirk: Gremlins

[RifleMech]

I didn't say that.
That are two completely different causes.
Whole class? Quirks are for specific equipment/vehicle combinations.

The only ancient point defense weapons are machine guns, ancient pe-primitive prototype lasers, and Phalanx systems. So why would machine guns still be effective but the others wouldn't be?

To aim a mass driver you have to aim the warship or space station. That's just how guns that aren't mounted on a flexible mount would be aimed.

I think we're talking past each other on this one. Specific weapon/vehicle Good. Class of weapon (as your ancient point defense) Bad.

Positive quirk: Undocumented feature
Negative quirk: Gremlins

As Gremlins exist that quirk totally works.

[Maingunnery]

The only ancient point defense weapons are machine guns, ancient pe-primitive prototype lasers, and Phalanx systems. So why would machine guns still be effective but the others wouldn't be?

There are no stats for ancient pre-primitive prototype lasers so I do not mention them, but if they got stats than of course the quirk could be applied in specific usage cases. And Phalanx systems would exactly fit the case of where the combination of ship&machine-gun&quirk that would replicate a ship with a Phalanx.

To aim a mass driver you have to aim the warship or space station. That's just how guns that aren't mounted on a flexible mount would be aimed.

And thus a single line of hexes instead of an firing arc. Many other weapon systems are not as restricted such as from having integrated aim adjustment equipment, a flexible mount, have indirect actuation (like from a waist in case of a 'Mech), or even guidance systems, resulting in a firing arc. 

[Lycanphoenix]

There should be some underwater-specific quirks.

For example, "sea legs" and "slick" as positive quirks.

Sea Legs: Bonus in all water-related PSRs.
Slick: Increase underwater MP by 1. (Can only be taken if the mech has UMUs installed.)

[VanVelding]

Sea Legs: Bonus in all water-related PSRs.
Slick: Increase underwater MP by 1. (Can only be taken if the mech has UMUs installed.)

A lot of these need their points tweaked, but I agree.

Non-Aquadynamic Armor (-1 & -3 Points)
This ‘mech has an armor design which is uniquely bad at moving through water. The -1 Point quirk inflicts a 1 MP cost for the first hex of Depth 1 or deeper water it moves into in a turn. The -3 Point quirk incurs +1 MP cost for each hex of Depth 1 or deeper water it moves into.

Aquatic Stabilization (+1 Point) #Legs
This ‘mech’s legs, gyros, and actuators are modified to operate underwater. This ‘mech gains a -1 bonus to target-numbers for piloting skill rolls while in water or moving into water.

Aquatic Adaptation (+1, +2, & +3 Points)
Most ‘mechs are awkward on land, clumsy in water, and bricklike in the air. Aquatic adaptations include hydrophilic design principles to mitigate some of its faults in fluid environments.
The +1 point version of this quirk aids the ‘mech in dissipating heat when in water. Each heat sink dissipates an additional point of heat when submerged in water and the total additional heat it can dissipate in water is increased to 8.
The +2 point version of this quirk works as above, but also gives the ‘mech a -1 bonus to its piloting skill rolls while in or entering a depth 1 or deeper fluid hex.
The +3 point version gives units firing on that ‘mech a +1 penalty when this ‘mech is in depth 1 fluid. It also gains a -1 bonus to breach rolls when it’s in fluid.

Navigation Fins (+4 Points)
This ‘mech has fins and control planes to assist it in navigating through water. Reduce by 1 the MP cost for moving through water. This only saves 1MP per turn.

Submarine Vents (+2 Points)
   This ‘mech’s cooling system efficiently transfers heat to water. It boils water around the ‘mech.
   During the heat phase of each turn, if that ‘mech has any heat on its heat scale, it spends the next turn under a heavy boil effect. If that ‘mech doesn’t have any heat on its heat scale, but did generate any heat, then it spends its next turn under a light boil effect.
   Light Boil: As per light smoke. The unit cannot use UMU.
   Heavy Boil: As per heavy smoke. The unit cannot use UMU.

Finned Cooling System (+1 Point)
The heat transfer surfaces of this ‘mech are constructed to more efficiently interface with external fluids. Every two, or fraction of two, heat sinks in water dissipates one additional heat. The ‘mech’s ability to dissipate heat from external influences is increased by 1.

Gas Exchange (-1 Point)
This ‘mech’s heat exchange system is finely tuned for exchange with the air of Earthlike environments, but not water.  Halve (round up) the heat dissipation bonus for his ‘mech being in water or snow.

[Daryk]

I like where that first level of Aquatic Adaptation is going, but would go in a different direction for a +2 point version:

Water Cooled (+2):
The 'mech has intakes in its feet that circulate water to its cooling system.  As long as it is in at least level 1 water and has at least 8 heat sinks remaining, increase the 'mech's heat dissipation by 8.  If it has less than 8 remaining, increase its dissipation by the number of heat sinks.

That vibes with the feet of 'mechs like the Rifleman, and lets it actually function as intended despite not having 4 heat sinks in its legs.

[idea weenie]

Weak Top Armor
This quirk can only be applied to ground-based support vehicles. The point value of this quirk is equal to the BAR reduction from receiving high-angle attacks. High angle attacks are those from attackers whose total height advantage in levels matches or exceeds the distance to the target in hexes. For example, a BattleMech attacks a tracked support vehicle in an adjacent hex of the same level, in which the height difference is one level, and the distance is one hex. Units of equal height, such as conventional infantry, can also qualify if they are in a high enough building or hex level. While airborne units always qualify by default. This BAR reduction is not applied to AE damage.

Weak top armor would also be weak vs artillery, Mortars, indirect fire, and similar plunging attacks.

Center-line Weaponry
Mounted weaponry has a more restricted firing arc, having been reduced to a single line of hexes. Guided missiles are excepted from this quirk.

Can the unit use a Movement point to turn the hull to bring the weapon to bear?  I.e. if the enemy is 5 hexes out but 2 hexes over, the mounting unit would spend 1 MP to turn the hull so it could fire the gun at the enemy unit that is off-center.  This would be restricted to if the unit could make a turn at the end of its current movement.  A fun idea is if the unit has to remain semi-stationary while rotating, so enemy units have an easier time shooting at it.

There are other missile launcher types. Damage per missile can also change with ammo types. The only consistent is that the bigger the launcher the bigger the potential damage.

The key is that if you base pts off tonnage, you provide an advantage to LRM-5 users.  By making cost proportional to damage, people are less likely to cheese their designs to use lots of a single launcher.

Bigger launchers do more damage, but you can mount more than one small launcher for the same tonnage.  I'll compare four LRM-5 vs LRM-20:
A single LRM-5 masses 2 tons
A single LRM-20 masses 10 tons

Four LRM-5 will mass 8 tons and as a result will cost 8 pts.
One LRM-20 will mass 10 tons and as a result will cost 10 pts.

On average four LRM-5 will do the same damage as a single LRM-20, but if you price it per tonnage then the LRM-5 user gets a 25% discount.


If there are other missile launcher types, then compare those missile launcher types while keeping as few variations as possible (i.e. regular LRM-10 vs Streak LRM-10).

If damage per missile changes per ammo type, then compare identical ammo types across different-sized launchers (i.e. Artemis LRM-5 vs Artemis LRM-15).


Otherwise you get the battle test for the Mackie that had new weapons and new armor only on the Battlemech, and the test result concluded that the humanoid form was what allowed the Mackie to win.