Turn Length

[paladin2019]

I have always heard that an AS turn length is 30 seconds compared to BT's 10 seconds. I cannot find a citation in AS:CE and this ca. 2013 post https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,34577 directly contradicts that conventional wisdom. Where did it come from?

[Sartris]

Pretty sure it comes from BattleForce 2. Alpha Strike started life as Quick Strike as a set of tacked on rules in the original Strategic Operations, which was a modification on the included BF rules (which was essentially BF3). I couldn't find a reference to turn scale in the SO BF rules (though I did not search super hard). Looks to be one of those fan assumptions we've carried with us for a quarter century.

[Lanceman]

AS is essentially BattleForce but you track individual units instead of lances, most everything carries over, but yeah there's no direct reference to turn length in the AS Companion or Commander's Edition. I can see why they would do that, it gives them some wiggle room to implement rules that allow for better gameplay without folks going "but I could do X in three classic turns so why can't I do Y here".

[Sartris]

found what i think is the origin of the 3 turns in 1 perception

BattleForce 2 Manual, pg 18

Battleforce is played in a series of turns. Each turn represents 30 seconds of game time.

as far as i can tell, this explicit time frame was not carried over to any printing of strategic operations or alpha strike.

after another look, i found it on pg 215 of the original SO, 2nd printing. it's probably an extrapolation by people to apply the same to alpha strike

[theagent]

Also, I would disagree because of the difference in mapscale.  Yes, I know that Alpha Strike is technically "hexless", and based on actual inches moved.  However, consider:

• 2" of movement in AS corresponds to 1 MP of movement on a hex-based map
• CBT uses hex maps, with each hex being 30m across, which would technically be 90m of range
• Small Lasers & MGs have max ranges of 3 hexes in CBT, or 90m
• In AS, Small Lasers & MGs will only generate an Attack Value in the Short Range Bracket, which ranges out to 6"...or 3 hexes on a hex map.
• Battleforce uses a hex map as well, but each hex is 90m in size...or roughly 3 times the size of a CBT hex.
• In Battleforce, the Short Range bracket is one hex.  Since AS Attack Values are converted 1-for-1 to Battleforce, this means that the 6"/3 hexes for AS maps corresponds to a single hex in BF

The "each turn is 30 seconds, or 3 times as long as a CBT turn" rule for BF is directly tied to the increase in scale (i.e. each BF hex is 3 times the traveling distance of a CBT hex).  AS range brackets most closely resemble CBT ranges, & are reduced in BF scale by a factor of 3.  Ergo...not only is the AS physical mapscale identical to CBT gameplay, but the turn length is also identical.

[Lanceman]

Also, I would disagree because of the difference in mapscale.  Yes, I know that Alpha Strike is technically "hexless", and based on actual inches moved.  However, consider:

• 2" of movement in AS corresponds to 1 MP of movement on a hex-based map
• CBT uses hex maps, with each hex being 30m across, which would technically be 90m of range
• Small Lasers & MGs have max ranges of 3 hexes in CBT, or 90m
• In AS, Small Lasers & MGs will only generate an Attack Value in the Short Range Bracket, which ranges out to 6"...or 3 hexes on a hex map.
• Battleforce uses a hex map as well, but each hex is 90m in size...or roughly 3 times the size of a CBT hex.
• In Battleforce, the Short Range bracket is one hex.  Since AS Attack Values are converted 1-for-1 to Battleforce, this means that the 6"/3 hexes for AS maps corresponds to a single hex in BF

The "each turn is 30 seconds, or 3 times as long as a CBT turn" rule for BF is directly tied to the increase in scale (i.e. each BF hex is 3 times the traveling distance of a CBT hex).  AS range brackets most closely resemble CBT ranges, & are reduced in BF scale by a factor of 3.  Ergo...not only is the AS physical mapscale identical to CBT gameplay, but the turn length is also identical.

Which doesn't quite work out with things like TSEMP that require a turn to recharge in classic but can be utilized every turn in AS, and I've seen our official Alpha Strike gurus say it's because the AS turn is longer.

It's a Schrodinger's Turn, longer or shorter depending on where you observe it from. 

[theagent]

Which doesn't quite work out with things like TSEMP that require a turn to recharge in classic but can be utilized every turn in AS, and I've seen our official Alpha Strike gurus say it's because the AS turn is longer.

It's a Schrodinger's Turn, longer or shorter depending on where you observe it from. 

Which is more of a simplification for Alpha Strike...just as you don't track ammo in Alpha Strike, don't check for Ultra ACs jamming, don't use the -1 bonus for using cluster ammo with LB-X autocannons, etc.  It's not proof that the turns would be longer...& even if it were, that would point to at most a 20-second turn for Alpha Strike, not the 30-second turn used in Battleforce (unless you're claiming that TSEMP takes 2 turns to recharge).

[Hellraiser]

This is probably also supported in the way Weapons are converted at 1/10 scale while Armor is converted at 1/30 scale.

So each weapon is doing triple damage compared to its CBT Damage to Armor ratio.

[doulos05]

This is probably also supported in the way Weapons are converted at 1/10 scale while Armor is converted at 1/30 scale.

So each weapon is doing triple damage compared to its CBT Damage to Armor ratio.

Well, that's also factoring in the fact that you don't have to scrape every last bit of armor off of a target before you get to the juicy internals. Doesn't matter how much armor you've got on your right leg if I keep rolling 8's on the hit location table. AS represents that by just converting damage and armor at different scales.

[samstonee30]

AS is essentially BattleForce but you track individual units instead of lances, most everything carries over, but yeah there's no direct reference to turn length in the AS Companion or Commander's Edition. I can see why they would do that, it gives them some wiggle room to implement rules that allow for better gameplay without folks going "but I could do X in three classic turns so why can't I do Y here".

thanks.