Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger  (Read 28488 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« on: 11 January 2013, 16:53:15 »
’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger

The Stinger. Business end of insects and arachnids like the wasp and scorpion. A professional wrestler has beaten Hulk Hogan among others. An American-made shoulder-fired Surface-to-Air Missile. And one of the bug ’Mechs of the Unseen, whose original dimensions harken back to the RoboTech anime.

Though that program might have been stitched together from others…

Stated as the second mass-produced light design in history (likely behind the Wasp), the Stinger is actually the fourth (so far) in existence (the other two being the Commando and the WAM-A, later the Firebee). The Stinger is written as also having beaten a design put forward by GM in the Star League trials. GM, having built the Wasp took an instant dislike to the Stinger as they claimed it was a blatant rip-off of their design, and sued. Two decades later, they dropped the suit as the cost just became too much for their bottom line.

The original STG-3R model entered service in 2479, and apparently was paired up with the Wasp for ease of maintenance. Mounting a GM 120-rated fusion engine, the Stinger could top out at 97 km/h. Six jump jets gave it the ability to reposition itself as needed. Three tons of armor give it 69% of maximum protection. This is laid out in a 4, 6/4, 6/2, 4, and 5 pattern for the head, center torso, side torsos, arms, and legs respectively. Ten heat sinks comfortably handle the heat load produced by the weapon’s systems, which are a right arm mounted medium laser, and a machine gun in each arm. One ton of machine gun ammunition is mounted in the center torso. The largest problem the design had was the space allocated for the pilot. Apparently getting out of a Stinger required a can of WD-40 and a crowbar…

Approximately 102 years later, the need for a way to deal with opposing scout designs facilitated the introduction of the STG-3G variant. This version removed the machine guns to add a second medium laser to the left arm, as well as one ton of armor, which brought the design up to a 6, 8/4, 7/3, 6, 7 configuration. This design had slight heat woes, as the heat went up two when jumping full and firing both lasers.

Around the turn of the 28th Century, the SLDF decided they wanted an upgraded version. Entering service in 2720, the STG-3Gb Royal variant utilized an endo-steel skeleton and a 140-rated extralight engine to up the armor to maximum (9, 9/3, 8/2, 6, 8 ), and add a centerline medium and head-mounted small laser. The heat sinks were also upgraded to doubles. Finally, a jump jet was added to increase the design’s mobility. Apparently every model that survived the Amaris Coup was taken on the Exodus, as this variant was not seen during the Succession Wars.

A large number of Stingers survived the Succession Wars. In addition, Earthworks managed to keep at least one factory churning the design out. With the proliferation of LostTech following the Helm Core’s discovery, it was decided to produce an upgraded model. This model, the STG-5M, replaces the machine guns with a flamer and an anti-missile system. An endo-steel skeleton also allowed for the upgrading of the armor across the head and torsos (6 head, 8/4 center, 8/2 sides).

It wasn’t until 3067 that more variants were created. As part of the Project Phoenix wave that swept the stars, the Taurians (with Word assistance) reworked the Stinger into the STG-5R model. This model replaced the machine guns with twin 15-rack Rocket Launchers and the medium laser was upgraded to an extended model. Armor was upgraded to ferro to provide protection in a 7, 6/2, 6/2, 5, 6 sequence. Among the many redesigns to its look, a full-head ejection system was added which fixed the cramped conditions of the previous variants.

At the same time, the Capellans designed the STG-6L variant. Mounting stealth armor around an endo-steel skeleton, the design mounts maximum protection in a 9, 9/3, 8/2, 6, 8 pattern. Weaponry consists of a medium laser in each arm. The jump jets were removed and the engine was upgraded to a 160-rated model, giving the design similar ground speed to that of the original Locust. The heat sinks were upgraded to double-strength models, allowing the design to run heat-neutral (at least until someone splashes it with plasma).

The Jihad’s early years saw the creation of three more variants. The first, the STG-5T was similar to the -5R model, save all of the weaponry was replaced with twin 3-pack Multi-Missile Launchers. Two tons of ammunition were allocated for SRM or LRM ammunition. House Steiner introduced the STG-6S model, which uses a 140-rated light engine to push the walking speed to that of the Royal variant. An additional jump jet was also installed, as was MASC to give the design the highest speed possible. Weaponry consists of twin light machine guns and an extended-range medium laser. Armor is heavy ferro, which allows for a 7, 8/2, 8/2, 5, 6 pattern.

The final early Jihad variant is the STG-3P. This model mounts a light-class particle cannon and uses an endo-steel skeleton. Armor is like the -3G model. Around 3076, the STG-5G model modifies this by using a 140-rated extralight engine, uses double-strength heat sinks, and adds a capacitor to the particle cannon. Armor is also maximized.

The final Inner Sphere variant is the STG-7S. Appearing near the end of the Jihad, this model strips the weapons-load down to a single extended-range medium laser. An endo-steel skeleton and 120-rated extralight engine allow the design to mount eight improved model jump jets. Only three tons of armor are allocated, which is laid-out in a 9, 7/2, 6/1, 4, 3/5 pattern. At least according to the record sheet, the left leg has two points of armor less than the right.

As the Snow Ravens and Outworlds Alliance formed the Raven Alliance, the need for new scout machines for the faction was becoming a grave issue. The solution was proposed by the head of the Alliance Defenders Limited corporation, and involved the upgrading of the STG-3R to Clan standards. The result is the Stinger IIC. Based around an endo-steel frame, the design utilizes a standard 120-rated engine, mounts an improved heavy medium laser in each arm, and an anti-personnel Gauss in the right arm. Armor is provided by three and a half tons of ferro-fibrous in a 7, 8/4, 7/3, 6, 8 pattern. Six jump jets maintain the characteristic jump capability. A year later, the Stinger IIC 2 variant showed up. It trades the Gauss for an improved heavy large laser. One jump jet was removed and the engine downgraded to a 100-rated model. This variant must have been a surprise the first few times it entered combat.

To use a Stinger, use quick strike tactics. I.e. jump in, shoot, get the heck out. Since you are more of a recon unit, try to avoid direct combat as much as possible. And as 20-tonner, getting hit is death. Frankly, with the armor load of most variants, some spitballs could go internal. Keep your foes’ to-hit numbers as high as possible.

When fighting a Stinger, first you have to catch him. This is somewhat simple, as most of their weapons aren’t exactly long-range. Time has not been good to him. Where-as he once was among the hardest things to hit, targeting computers, precision ammunition, and things like Gauss Rifles have made his life not so easy. More so, with TAG and C3 out there. Again, as a twenty-tonner with armor loads that aren’t exactly large, hitting him with any weapons can ruin his day. Plasma rifles are even better, as they will likely tear parts off and cause severe heat woes (then again I tend to roll above 4 on each plasma).

The Stinger has led a long and storied career. And it is likely to continue to do so, as there were lots of them in the Dark Age game. In fact, based on experience from that game, I can say that while one Stinger doesn’t worry me, a horde of them can be trouble.
« Last Edit: 11 January 2013, 17:51:42 by Kotetsu »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #1 on: 11 January 2013, 17:39:55 »
Not much use on the tactical battle field, unless you're just trying for sheer numbers.  My militia battalion (here) has a Stinger to fill out the scout lance. If I expanded this unit, they'd end up with a lance or two of Stingers.

The speed isn't as much a defense as you'd like for the past 20 odd years, with the 3050 Grand Dragon matching it in a foot race.  PBI squashing, they can get through your armor and easily out range you  However, on a BattleForce scale, they're a quite a bit better, if only because they can actually get away on occasion.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #2 on: 11 January 2013, 19:22:58 »
Although I've always liked the Stinger, it is very much outclassed on the modern battlefield, just as nerd says.  That said however, it still has a place in militia units and it is dirt cheap BV and C-Bill wise.

I haven't tried it out yet, but I quite like the idea and the fluff text of the Stinger IIC.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #3 on: 11 January 2013, 19:35:46 »
The STG-3P is a unit that deals disproportional chaos to its enemies. For a tiny BV (by modern standards) it has an insane ability to annoy; its 5 points are just enough to annoy and too much to ignore, but it can pick its range and harass and force an enemy to decide wheather to shut it up or go after the real threats.

That it has "desperation weapon" stamped on it only makes me love it more.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #4 on: 11 January 2013, 19:46:58 »
Whats a 3025 company without a stinger or two (after all i think the original Black Widow company had 3).

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #5 on: 11 January 2013, 19:52:20 »
I haven't tried it out yet, but I quite like the idea and the fluff text of the Stinger IIC.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #6 on: 11 January 2013, 23:26:20 »
The Stinger has always served me well, especially the -3G model. Haven't used the Royal version or the rest of the new upgrades but I'm looking forward to the Gb, 3P, 6L and 6S. That 5G model with the PPC capacitor looks neat too.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #7 on: 12 January 2013, 00:16:20 »
Love the idea behind the -5R though I have not got to use one (must fix, my mercs like rockets after all).  The IIC . . . oh, I SO want to play with that design!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #8 on: 12 January 2013, 02:11:36 »
I have the feeling that by the time of the Jihad and post-Jihad, that the primary uses of the Stinger would be in militia regiments and backwaters.  It really doesn't have the speed or integrity to be a line unit, but it has plenty of uses as a budget scout for a strapped militia.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #9 on: 12 January 2013, 02:55:11 »
I have the feeling that by the time of the Jihad and post-Jihad, that the primary uses of the Stinger would be in militia regiments and backwaters.  It really doesn't have the speed or integrity to be a line unit, but it has plenty of uses as a budget scout for a strapped militia.

To be fair, you can remove Stinger from your post and replace it with 'every 20 ton (Inner Sphere) 'Mech in existance'.

There are some inherent penalties to the lightest units, for example  cockpit weight and Gyro weight taking up such a large percentage of their mass, maximum armor limits and so on.  30-35 tons, to me, is as light as I'd go in fielding a 'line' battlemech. 25 tonners and below, even at lower cost, simply have too many drawbacks and wont survive on the modern battlefield against well equipped units.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #10 on: 12 January 2013, 02:58:03 »
There are a few exceptions to that.  Honestly, the reason I singled out Stingers (and to an almost identical extent Wasps) is because they move "only" 6/9 at 20 tons.  They just don't have the speed to do anything that some 50 ton 'Mechs can do better in every single way except cost.  There are some 20 ton 'mechs that are faster than anything else on two or four legs, and that gets them a decent spot on the field.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #11 on: 12 January 2013, 17:54:27 »
I consider Wasps and Stingers to be scouts and training 'Mechs that are not really to engage other 'Mechs.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #12 on: 13 January 2013, 08:04:41 »
I consider Wasps and Stingers to be scouts and training 'Mechs that are not really to engage other 'Mechs.

Once you had a Stinger IIC 2 in your back and blasting you for all it got, you will rethink that ;)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #13 on: 13 January 2013, 21:14:39 »
’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger

 The largest problem the design had was the space allocated for the pilot. Apparently getting out of a Stinger required a can of WD-40 and a crowbar…

Should the Stinger be considered to have a small cockpit?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #14 on: 13 January 2013, 21:29:38 »
Should the Stinger be considered to have a small cockpit?

Not the standard 2 ton small cockpit, but the Stinger is given as an example for the "Cramped cockpit" negative quirk, which mimics the small cockpit, but without the weight and critical savings.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #15 on: 13 January 2013, 22:12:28 »
I need to dig up the record sheet for a Stinger Upgrade I did back in the day when I was on a "Pimp my Bug Mech" kick.  It had a light PPC and it was fun when I tested it...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #16 on: 14 January 2013, 06:03:05 »
The article fails to mention that the Stinger, even in 3025, was seen primarily in training cadres and poorly equipped militia formations. It's not a designated training 'Mech, but apparently that's the job it sucks least at so that's what it's used for. And for terrorizing the public.

Look at where the Stinger came from. It's implied to be a blatant Wasp ripoff (although it was never decided in court), to the point of being all but a variant of that 'Mech. I recall a notion from somewhere that even the parts were largely interchangeable.
To wit, the Stinger is essentially a Wasp with MGs instead of a SRM-2.
Why would anybody want that? Don't know, ask the Star League quartermasters. It does make some (limited) sense when going against infantry, if you're not going to use infernos.

As for variants, well scream at me for coming up with an apocryphal source again but in The Crescent Hawks' Inception the Steiner techs on Chara III can give you what seems to be a standard refit where they remove the MGs & ammo and replace them with two small lasers in each arm. I like that modification a lot.
There's an additional mod removing the JJs for two CT-mounted med lasers and extra armor; that one I don't like quite as much.
« Last Edit: 14 January 2013, 06:04:52 by Frabby »
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #17 on: 14 January 2013, 12:08:52 »
The article fails to mention that the Stinger, even in 3025, was seen primarily in training cadres and poorly equipped militia formations. It's not a designated training 'Mech, but apparently that's the job it sucks least at so that's what it's used for. And for terrorizing the public.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #18 on: 14 January 2013, 17:31:06 »
The article fails to mention that the Stinger, even in 3025, was seen primarily in training cadres and poorly equipped militia formations. It's not a designated training 'Mech, but apparently that's the job it sucks least at so that's what it's used for. And for terrorizing the public.
actually, it would make a lousy training mech (cramped cockpit for one pilot and no room for a trainer, no real diversity of weapons for live fire training, not really durable enough to survive the inevitable falls as the trainee learns how to pilot..)
the use of the stinger as a training mecha is, i think, due to the fact that they are cheap, and there are huge #'s of them. every stinger assigned to training duty means one more mech assignment on the frontline that can be devoted to a larger, more durable design.


Quote
Look at where the Stinger came from. It's implied to be a blatant Wasp ripoff (although it was never decided in court), to the point of being all but a variant of that 'Mech. I recall a notion from somewhere that even the parts were largely interchangeable.
To wit, the Stinger is essentially a Wasp with MGs instead of a SRM-2.
Why would anybody want that? Don't know, ask the Star League quartermasters. It does make some (limited) sense when going against infantry, if you're not going to use infernos.

IMO, the stinger would make sense as a 'milita and police' version of the Wasp.. something designed to be used by non-military or paramilitary forces. MG's can be loaded with rubber bullets for less than lethal crowd control, which is much more useful than the SRM of a wasp.

but using the canon background? a stinger is cheaper logistically, since MG ammo is easier to get than SRm ammo, and it lasts much longer between needing reloading. on the principle that recon mechs are not supposed to engage the enemy, the reduction in range fire power isn't much of an issue (and to be honest, a 6 hex reduction in range isn't much a loss for such a light mech.. if the wasp carried an LRM5 instead of an SRM2, it would be a big issue though), and it gains some extra ability to deal with infantry and do less-than-lethal crowd control.

Quote
As for variants, well scream at me for coming up with an apocryphal source again but in The Crescent Hawks' Inception the Steiner techs on Chara III can give you what seems to be a standard refit where they remove the MGs & ammo and replace them with two small lasers in each arm. I like that modification a lot.
There's an additional mod removing the JJs for two CT-mounted med lasers and extra armor; that one I don't like quite as much.

the small laser refit would be fairly simple, since MG's and SL's mass the same. you'd also have a spare ton from removing the MG ammo though.. no need for extra heatsinks, so where did it go in the Crescent hawk's refit?  :-\
the JJ refit sounds comparable to some of the 3025 P-hawk refits to the same end.. might be useful in some situations, but i'd rather have the JJ's..

might be nice to get record sheets based on those mods, both seem like they'd be common enough refits for the 3rd and 4th succession wars era.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #19 on: 14 January 2013, 17:35:23 »
I see Stingers as generic scout or picket 'mechs when you expect to face reasonable number of infantry. (This translates to all offensive and a fair chunk of defensive missions.) It can range far and wide without compromising the firepower of your main force. It's fast enough to move speedily on a strategic scale, so it can find the enemy, break contact quickly and report in, then harass them, going after infantry patrols, or lightly defended targets.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #20 on: 14 January 2013, 17:40:56 »
the small laser refit would be fairly simple, since MG's and SL's mass the same. you'd also have a spare ton from removing the MG ammo though.. no need for extra heatsinks, so where did it go in the Crescent hawk's refit?  :-\
There's a pair of small lasers in each arm for this variant.
And while the Crescent Hawks games are frequently treated pretty much as canon, they remain apocryphal sources. As such, this Stinger variant isn't likely to see an official record sheet anytime soon.
That said, it's simple enough to update a record sheet with the information we're given here.

Somewhat off-topic, but in the same game there's that gorgeous "Blazing Inferno" variant of the Commando where the two SRM lauchers are exchanged for 3 more medium lasers and 6 small lasers, and a ton of armor.  [drool]
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #21 on: 14 January 2013, 18:03:53 »
When combined arms units are present in 3025 games sometimes you just need
a CHEAP unit with some MGs that's got a mech's level of mobility .

Having your anti-infantry weapons mounted on a vehicle that can't make it past
prohibited terrain or a mech that's just not fast enough to get there in time  can
be the same as not having any anti-infantry weapons at all .


Sometimes you just don't have the BV or C-Bills available to pay for a
Phoenix Hawk or a Firestarter .

The only thing I REALLY don't like about the standard Stinger  is it's combination
of 5 armor points and 4 internal structure in each leg .

That means any single PPC hit takes off a leg .

I would choose it as an option normally otherwise -instead of when I'm almost out
of BV to spend .

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #22 on: 14 January 2013, 18:13:45 »
The Stinger- maybe one of the most common designs, and one that's seen it's share of facelifts over the years....

the original Stinger is a fairly simple design. it's body is somewhat flattened with mostly smooth lines, broken up mostly by the jet-mounting packs on the rear and what looks like some kind of canopy hatch in the chest *cough* and the legs are similarly simple. the arms have large vambraces housing the machineguns, and the laser being housed in a rifle-shaped arm pod is an unusual mounting choice that isn't commonly seen in later eras *cough*. what may be the Stinger's defining trait though is the head- the cockpit is somehow pried into a tiny, largely horizontal space that looks more like a security camera than anything else. either the pilot has to shimmy into a miniscule tube build into the rear of the head to pilot the thing or else he literally has to be crammed into a space maybe the size of a largish garbage can, a feat that must have ensured the Stinger its place of derision as a lemon of a 'mech.

the later inner sphere redesign is largely the same shape, with most of its alterations minor cosmetic choices. the overall armor design is more angular and jagged, with many of the joints opting for large, very visible armor baffles compared to the old ones. the "backpack" containing the Stinger's jumping power has been compacted effectively and no longer pokes over it's shoulders and the head has been enlarged somewhat (to the cheers of every low-ranking mechjock, i'm assured). the most immediately visible change though is the addition of a pair of rocket launcher racks to the front torso. the paired launchers take up more than half of the torso, lending a significantly more threatening look to the design.

overall, the Stinger is a design that's largely very simple, which is maybe the inevitable result of making a 'mech in a weight class the relegates it to likely being mission killed once it actually sees returning fire from anything other than it's own kind on the battlefield. that it's signature design trait seems to be not giving the pilot any kind of space doesn't help it any, but it's very hard to argue with cheap and mobile.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #23 on: 14 January 2013, 18:30:16 »
I see Stingers as generic scout or picket 'mechs when you expect to face reasonable number of infantry. (This translates to all offensive and a fair chunk of defensive missions.) It can range far and wide without compromising the firepower of your main force. It's fast enough to move speedily on a strategic scale, so it can find the enemy, break contact quickly and report in, then harass them, going after infantry patrols, or lightly defended targets.

The problem with this is that at 6/9/6 it does not really have the speed to break contact quickly (or at all in many cases) on the modern battlefield.  The most likely scenario is that it will be caught by the enemy's larger, faster, and better armed scouts and killed before it can gather any really useful information so you would be better off with something like a Ferret VTOL.  Even if it does manage to get through to the bulk of the enemy forces, there will likely be units with at least as much mobility as it has on hand to crush it like the bug it is, and that is assuming a larger 'Mech does not wreck it the instant it shows its face with something like an ERPPC.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #24 on: 14 January 2013, 18:36:42 »
Indeed.  The Stinger's natural predator on the modern battlefield are 6/9/x mediums with the range and firepower to cripple Stingers in the opening salvo.

The Uziel 2S could easily have been designed for the express purpose of mauling Stingers and Wasps, for how good it is at it.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #25 on: 14 January 2013, 19:57:42 »
Indeed.  The Stinger's natural predator on the modern battlefield are 6/9/x mediums with the range and firepower to cripple Stingers in the opening salvo.

The Uziel 2S could easily have been designed for the express purpose of mauling Stingers and Wasps, for how good it is at it.

Honestly, there are plenty of 7/11/X mediums that do it as well under IS tech, and on the Clan side of things you have machines like the Viper which can do unholy things to a Stinger with a stray glance.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #26 on: 15 January 2013, 01:52:39 »
On the other hand taking a couple of Level 1 Stingers in a mixed force means never having to whine about Infantry units outside of an Urban environment.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #27 on: 15 January 2013, 02:30:47 »
On the other hand taking a couple of Level 1 Stingers in a mixed force means never having to whine about Infantry units outside of an Urban environment.

Honestly, you are better off picking real machines with anti-infantry weapons (the old Warhammer is a good 3025 example).  They tend to save you a lot of BV over a dedicated anti-infantry platform even if it is cheap junk like the Stinger, and unlike the Stingers they are not going to get killed by the infantry they are trying to kill or get picked off to leave the rest of the force vulnerable.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #28 on: 15 January 2013, 02:45:54 »
Eh, the most I have seen for the Stinger or Wasp is in double blind games as a behind the lines spotter.  It sits on top of something to negate the double blind for one side or another . . .
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger
« Reply #29 on: 15 January 2013, 12:56:29 »
The Stinger/Wasp duo started the process that eventually drove me away from the idea of "cheap" Mech scouts.
The concept of a Stinger scouting can be basically summed up as: "we'll know where the enemy is when it stops reporting in".
Even back in 3025 the thing wasn't really fast enough to run away, and worthless as a combat unit. An Assassin is faster, and a Pixie will it it for lunch.

So either you go all out, cost be damned (LCT-6M), or you forget the entire idea of Scout Mechs, and optimize them for harrassing.
Use VTOLs or stealthy BA for actual scouting.

Though IMO, a guy on a motorbike is a better scout anyway.
You can hide everywhere, and you can at least try to make up excuses when the bad guys find you!
"Invasion? What invasion, i'm out here camping for the last two weeks! Radio? The point of this trip is getting away from civilisation!
Oh, those military binocs? Birdwatching man! Cost me a fortune, but i can count a Jaybirds feathers from half a mile out!
The rifle? Come on, you've seen a Stuffer Shack out here? I'm hunting my food!
What about that compact com unit, don't you guys know anything? Only a fool goes camping in the hills without a way to call the rangers is something goes south, like a broken leg!"

Try something like that after they've shot you out of your Stinger...   8)