’Mech of the Week: STG-**/IIC Stinger

[Pa Weasley]

Just wield it like a fairy carrying a shotgun:

Best. Mental. Image. Ever.

[cold1]

Just wield it like a fairy carrying a shotgun: Flutter about and avoid attention and(more importantly) damage while the fight rages around you, and when the opportunity arises, blow someone's spine out through their chest and flit away before anyone else can respond. }:)

I'm much more of a hit them over the head with gauss slug or two from 15 hexes or so then lumber past their carcass player.

But that might be fun!

[Diplominator]

Best. Mental. Image. Ever.

I'm enjoying the implication that we should already be familiar with the ins and outs of shotgun-toting fairies.

[Alexander Knight]

I'm enjoying the implication that we should already be familiar with the ins and outs of shotgun-toting fairies.

You mean you aren't?

[A. Lurker]

I'm enjoying the implication that we should already be familiar with the ins and outs of shotgun-toting fairies.

I don't know, sounds like pretty standard Dresden Files fare to me. ;)

[Weirdo]

I'm much more of a hit them over the head with gauss slug or two from 15 hexes or so then lumber past their carcass player.

But that might be fun!

It's fun, and a lot cheaper than most Gauss carriers. Devastators and Daishis can be very effective, but can only be in so many places at once, and their tactics can be pretty predictable at this point. On the other hand, how many STG IICs can you get for that Devastator? That's a lot more threats to keep track of, that move a lot faster, and aren't all eliminated by a single Gauss-meets-face.

I'm not saying that big assault guns-on-legs are useless, mind you, but they're not for every role. Now if you want a lot of fun, try teaming a few STG-IICs with your big boys, and try using one group to flush your enemies out of cover and drive them towards the other group. >:D

I'm enjoying the implication that we should already be familiar with the ins and outs of shotgun-toting fairies.

While they've rarely hit this hard, we've had 'mechs like this for a VERY long time, going all the way back to the original Stingers and Wasps if you knew how to use them. New players have an excuse, but the rest of us should be familiar with this kind of stuff. I mean, we've had the WSP-1W for how long now? :)

[Wrangler]

I don't own the Prototypes Record Sheet book, does it include the IIC 2 record sheet?

[Diablo48]

Weirdo, while I see where you are coming from, the Stinger IIC just does not have the mobility to pull it off with Clan tech on the field.  It is barely faster than the 75 ton Timber Wolf, the 40 ton Viper carries more firepower while moving much faster, and the Fire Moth H is far faster and has more than double the firepower for about the same BV.  About the only thing I can see using it for against a real opponent is a cheap, expendable urban combat 'Mech to provide support to dispersed infantry units and help them stall the enemy's thrust until your real forces can be brought to bear.

[Scotty]

Citing the extremes does not make the middle any less effective.  Just because something does it better doesn't mean the Stinger can't do its job well enough.

[Diablo48]

Citing the extremes does not make the middle any less effective.  Just because something does it better doesn't mean the Stinger can't do its job well enough.

I am sorry if I did not feel like listing nearly every 5/8/0 or faster design on the books for you, but the fact of the matter is that the Stinger IIC stacks up terribly against the competition with mediocre speed, poor firepower, and abysmal armor.

[cold1]

@Weirdo.... You mean a 5/8 hammer with a 4/6 anvil is doing it wrong???

[Weirdo]

Weirdo, while I see where you are coming from, the Stinger IIC just does not have the mobility to pull it off with Clan tech on the field.  It is barely faster than the 75 ton Timber Wolf, the 40 ton Viper carries more firepower while moving much faster, and the Fire Moth H is far faster and has more than double the firepower for about the same BV.  About the only thing I can see using it for against a real opponent is a cheap, expendable urban combat 'Mech to provide support to dispersed infantry units and help them stall the enemy's thrust until your real forces can be brought to bear.

What Clan do you play, where top-of-the-line Omnis are the scout 'mech of choice for second-line troops and non-Clan militias? Such a powerful faction must surely already be ilClan, and us mere mortals simply haven't noticed yet. Can you do us a favor and break it to us gently, please?

[Diablo48]

What Clan do you play, where top-of-the-line Omnis are the scout 'mech of choice for second-line troops and non-Clan militias? Such a powerful faction must surely already be ilClan, and us mere mortals simply haven't noticed yet. Can you do us a favor and break it to us gently, please?

As I said to Scotty, those were representative examples, not an exhaustive list.  Just about everything beats the Stinger IIC in at least two ways, and most beat it in every way.  Even a very highly specialized design like the Piranah beats it in every way and a number of designs with serious flaws like the Clint IIC blow it out of the water.

[Scotty]

This right here is the difference between "play what you have and enjoy it" and "complain about not having front line equipment".

Yes, we know that the Stinger IIC is not a beacon of spectacular 'Mech design.  We know that there are 'Mechs out there, even a lot of 'Mechs, that do the job better.  This is not an article about those 'Mechs.  This article is about how to use what is in the article, and that you may end up using if you're not restricting yourself to what is optimal to use in a given situation.

[Weirdo]

As I said to Scotty, those were representative examples, not an exhaustive list.  Just about everything beats the Stinger IIC in at least two ways, and most beat it in every way.  Even a very highly specialized design like the Piranah beats it in every way and a number of designs with serious flaws like the Clint IIC blow it out of the water.

But how many of them are meant for the same role? There's no point at all comparing the Stinger IIC to the Dragonfly or Mad Cat, since they're all meant for very different roles.

[Colt Ward]

Developing that further, I could see a mixed star of Stinger IIC & IIC 2s painted gold to assault drop from a dropship in orbit . . . landing behind the line of some raider.  Star Commander Cassius's motto for the star is 'Fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee.'

While it is being compared to top of the line equipment . . . I imagine it is also pretty cheap BV-wise?

[A. Lurker]

While it is being compared to top of the line equipment . . . I imagine it is also pretty cheap BV-wise?

BV 730 for the standard model; the value for the 2 doesn't seem to have made it into the MUL yet. MegaMekLab puts it at 1021 (and SSW, once I copy the MML version over manually, seems to agree), but that may not be the final answer because in both programs it also seems to come out half a ton underweight, so either the designers chose to randomly waste that weight or there's some detail missing yet. (Armor looks already maxed out, so that can't be it.)

[Colt Ward]

730 is not bad . . . IIRC the Fire Moth H is around 500 and the Phantom H is 930s.  Not saying it is great, but used as a surprise force where they can quickly establish the shorter range they need with cover for hit & fade work . . . I can see some problems for the opposing commander.

Of course, the real test is not how it does against other Clan equipment but rather same time period Drac gear.

[Nahuris]

Diablo48.... it's simple.
People ignore Stingers.......
Even the Stinger with the Rockets.
I've fielded Stingers, and even managed to just walk around to the back of my opponent, and he ignored it...... (I ran, but the terrain was crap, so, at best, I managed 4 hexes a round of actual movement)........

I am not sure why, but people see Stinger, and promptly decide it's a 20 ton waste.... they compare it to other designs, or cite how poor it is, and then promptly decide it's not worth chasing around.... so I hold them back, and then unleash them at the right time...... and no, I am not disparaging you. Nearly every player I have faced has laughed, and pointed out the Wolfhound, or some other mech, and then question me as to why I "wasted" a unit with the Stinger.
Usually, somewhere during that battle, I also get an "oh crap, I forgot that it was there" moment to savor......

Then, there is always the 3P... complete with a Light PPC.....

The thing with the Stinger is that once you spring it, people will probably hurt it, or kill it quick.. . but if you play it right, don't attract a lot of attention, and never leave it as the only target (unless that's part of the plan), you can pretty much run it around with impunity...... people just don't tend to pay attention to them.

Nahuris

[Kotetsu]

I don't own the Prototypes Record Sheet book, does it include the IIC 2 record sheet?

Doubt it. The info on the 2 is from the write-up in Prototypes. We have to wait for them to get around to a Prototypes Unabridged PDF file to see where everything is. And if they've added any new variants...

[DarkISI]

BV 730 for the standard model; the value for the 2 doesn't seem to have made it into the MUL yet. MegaMekLab puts it at 1021 (and SSW, once I copy the MML version over manually, seems to agree), but that may not be the final answer because in both programs it also seems to come out half a ton underweight, so either the designers chose to randomly waste that weight or there's some detail missing yet. (Armor looks already maxed out, so that can't be it.)

It's 1097 BV. So yeah, you missed something. ;)

[StCptMara]

I don't own the Prototypes Record Sheet book, does it include the IIC 2 record sheet?

I could be wrong, but I do not believe they have ever released an Prototypes Unabridged.
I would love it if they did so I could use the Svartalfa 2(since they always leave information
out in the Variants description, like how many shots it has)

[A. Lurker]

It's 1097 BV. So yeah, you missed something. ;)

Oh, it's not just me. I'm drawing from the stats currently included with MegaMek/MegaMekLab, so if there's something off with those they'll eventually need fixing for more than just my sake.

*tinkers*

Ah...I think I see. That version should actually be a full ton underweight because it drops the right arm iHML along with the AP Gauss, but disguises that by then maxing out the head armor for an extra half-ton (wasting seven points in the process ::)). Revert to the standard version's armor configuration and add the laser back in and you do end up at 1097 (and a potential 37 points of heat on a jumping alpha strike vs. the base ten DHS for dissipation -- ouch).

[Kotetsu]

I could be wrong, but I do not believe they have ever released an Prototypes Unabridged.
I would love it if they did so I could use the Svartalfa 2(since they always leave information
out in the Variants description, like how many shots it has)

They put out a print book that I believe only covers the main variants in Prototypes, not the second (or more). This has put a serious crimp in writing articles on certain designs (I'm looking at you, Mad Cat III).

[glitterboy2098]

Diablo48.... it's simple.
People ignore Stingers.......
Even the Stinger with the Rockets.
I've fielded Stingers, and even managed to just walk around to the back of my opponent, and he ignored it...... (I ran, but the terrain was crap, so, at best, I managed 4 hexes a round of actual movement)........

I am not sure why, but people see Stinger, and promptly decide it's a 20 ton waste.... they compare it to other designs, or cite how poor it is, and then promptly decide it's not worth chasing around.... so I hold them back, and then unleash them at the right time...... and no, I am not disparaging you. Nearly every player I have faced has laughed, and pointed out the Wolfhound, or some other mech, and then question me as to why I "wasted" a unit with the Stinger.
Usually, somewhere during that battle, I also get an "oh crap, I forgot that it was there" moment to savor......

Then, there is always the 3P... complete with a Light PPC.....

The thing with the Stinger is that once you spring it, people will probably hurt it, or kill it quick.. . but if you play it right, don't attract a lot of attention, and never leave it as the only target (unless that's part of the plan), you can pretty much run it around with impunity...... people just don't tend to pay attention to them.

Nahuris

the 3025 Stinger was fairly safe to ignore.. used right it was a nasty little bug, but few could use it well enough. one ML and 2 MG's just didn't offer much in the way of combat power. even the 2ML version wasn't much better.

so people started ignoring it. and kept that attitude even after the more recent updates. (to be fair, the 3050 upgrade model didn't really do it any favors)

those who came in in more modern times tend to be infected with the common attitude of "light mechs are obsolete on the modern XL/Endo/Ferro/ER/TC battlefield", and tend to just ignore anything under 40 tons.. unless it is an extreme exploit machine, like the Dasher H.

used correctly, a light mech can be nasty. used en mass with focused fire, modern light's can do horrific things. (Mercer Ravannion had a good idea, he just needed more advanced technology than he had available to make it work at the mech weight he was using)

[DarkISI]

Oh, it's not just me. I'm drawing from the stats currently included with MegaMek/MegaMekLab, so if there's something off with those they'll eventually need fixing for more than just my sake.

*tinkers*

Ah...I think I see. That version should actually be a full ton underweight because it drops the right arm iHML along with the AP Gauss, but disguises that by then maxing out the head armor for an extra half-ton (wasting seven points in the process ::)). Revert to the standard version's armor configuration and add the laser back in and you do end up at 1097 (and a potential 37 points of heat on a jumping alpha strike vs. the base ten DHS for dissipation -- ouch).

I hat to say this, but: As long as the RS hasn't been released, I can't tell you if you are right or wrong. Sorry.

[A. Lurker]

I hat to say this, but: As long as the RS hasn't been released, I can't tell you if you are right or wrong. Sorry.

Nah, it's okay. I'll file a bug report on the relevant tracker as a reminder to fix that once the record sheet is out, though.

[Orin J.]

@Weirdo.... You mean a 5/8 hammer with a 4/6 anvil is doing it wrong???

the Anvil's movement is 5/8/3 though!.....

wait. derp, nevermind.

[CrossfirePilot]

Some games, a stinger is about all i have left that hasnt been legged, TACed or headcapped...  Seemed like when we were going through the old Tales of the Black Widow about half the mechs you got to use were stingers... 

[A. Lurker]

Seemed like when we were going through the old Tales of the Black Widow about half the mechs you got to use were stingers...

Possibly based on that old TRO:3025 anecdote about the Wolf's Dragoons raid on Doneval II in 3021 in the Stinger's own fluff. Involving, yes, their Black Widow Company and a lance of trainees in Stingers saving their instructor (who each of them had a crush on) from a Black Widow Wasp...if somebody wanted to recreate the action on that planet, I'd kind of expect those cadets and their training 'Mechs to show up. Potentially more than once, even. :)