Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel  (Read 15249 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« on: 31 May 2013, 03:07:19 »
’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
   
Sentinel. One watching for trouble and spreading the alert when he sees it. A robot that hunts mutants. An insane light warjack wielding a chain gun and a shield. And a 40-ton medium BattleMech, a Star League design.

Strangely, two synonyms of the word sentinel have also become BattleMechs. Watchman and Sentry. Both 40-tonners.

The Sentinel is in part a result of a move to expand House Steiner’s personal household forces. Seemingly meant to guard installations, and to provide defensive firepower, this design started out as an exclusively Lyran product. This fact, enforced by contract, caused some consternation with Defiance’s Terran owners.

Entering service in 2651, the STN-1S is built to be a cheap unit in order to limit its effect on the new quotas. Built around a standard chassis and mounting a 240-rated fusion engine, the design can reach ground speeds equivalent to the same-weight Clint. Six tons of standard plate provide 70% of maximum, set in a 9, 12/7, 10/5, 8, 11 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs). Weapons load consists of a left arm-mounted Class-2 autocannon, a right torso mounted 4-pack SRM launcher, and a small laser mounted beneath the SRM launcher. One ton of ammunition is allocated to each dependent weapon. Twelve heat sinks are more than adequate for the heat load, being able to run heat neutral even with an engine hit.

Eventually the -1S spread to Houses Davion and Marik. As well, the SLDF gained access when the Council passed an amendment that expanded all League state armies and specifically opened the Sentinel to SLDF procurement. As well, they worked with Defiance to make an upgraded version which was slow to be acquired by Lyran purchasers in an economic lesson to the Steiners. This became the iconic STN-3L model. This design replaced the Class-2 autocannon with a Class-5 Ultra version. The 4-pack SRM was reduced to a 2-pack Streak variant. Two heat sinks were removed, as was a half ton of armor, which ends up being two points from the center front and side torso fronts, and one from each leg.

In 2715, the Sentinel got the Royal treatment. The STN-3Lb utilizes an endo-steel skeleton, an extralight engine, and ferro-fibrous armor. Protection is now 97% of maximum and is laid out in a 9, 17/6, 14/5, 12, 20 pattern. The missile pack was swapped for a medium laser, and the autocannon was traded for a Gauss Rifle, with two tons of ammunition. This variant is one of the many my gamemaster wished he had known of when we did the Tukayyid scenario pack.

The Exodus came, and with it two major effects. First, was that the Lyrans gained total control over Defiance and its production lines. This meant, for a time at least, they could produce as many Sentinels as they wished, possibly even Royal variants. The second was not as nice. The Succession Wars soon caused the loss of much technological know-how.

In 2830, three downgraded models entered service. The first, the STN-3K differs from the STN-3L , by downgrading the Class-5 Ultra to a standard model, while doubling the ammunition reserves for the weapon. The Streak was replaced with a standard model, the weight savings used to bring the armor load back to that of the STN-1S. The second variant, designated the STN-3KA replaces the Class-5 with a large laser, three heat sinks, and two tons of armor, laid out in a 9, 18/5, 15/4, 11, 18 pattern. The third, the STN-3KB, swaps the Class-5 for a PPC and three heat sinks.

Around the turn of the thirty-first century, the production line was shut down for lack of useable parts. This happened as the Sentinel did not do well in Succession Wars fighting, and a shift in Lyran thinking (Zeus for best light ’Mech). The production line was restarted in the 3020’s, but retooled for the Hatchetman. However, the LostTech renaissaince of the 3030s did allow for the design’s return.

In 3035, the new up-teched STN-3M showed up. It is similar to the STN-3L, but uses a homegrown non-Streak 2-pack SRM launcher, and swaps the small laser for a medium. The next variant, the STN-4D arrived in 3063. This Davion creation swaps the Ultra and SRM pack for a Class-5 rotary autocannon, fed by two tons of ammunition. One ton of armor was added, giving the design protection in a 9, 19/5, 15/5, 12, 14 pattern. In 3065, ComStar decided to create the STN-C model, which takes a -3M model and swaps the medium laser for a C3 Slave unit.

The final variant, the STN-5WB is the result of the Blakist occupation of Hesperus II. Premiering in 3070, this model uses a light engine and replaces the heat sinks with double-strength models. Weaponry consists of two Class-5 light autocannons, fed by one ton of CASEd ammunition, and three extended model medium lasers, one in each torso. Six and a half tons of armor give protection in a 9, 15/4, 11/4, 9, 14 pattern.

Using one starts with realizing that you are not likely to survive a stand-up fight. You need friends. You were designed to be a picket for the main force. In other words, if you see something tell your buddies. Each variant has a weapon that can snipe at range, backed up usually with closer-in weaponry. However, against anything heavier than you, you are likely in deep crap if you get too close. Do note, that if you do end up at range one, you have a free hand to punch (though kicking is also fine, if you have a good pilot). As you don’t have jump jets, try not to get caught in places where you cannot maneuver.

Fighting one is simple. Shoot it until it drops. If you have better speed or maneuverability, close and get behind him to really ruin his day. Do note, that against the Royal variant, he does have a headcapper. His speed is his best defense, but since things like the Ti Ts’ang can match him on the ground, and jump as well, this is not as good as can be.

While this design could make it through into the Dark Ages, the damage inflicted by the Word of Blake on the Hesperus II production lines may have put an end to its production. And then there is the Republic. Not being sure where the borderlines were drawn, it may be on their side of the border. Whether it would survive the decommissioning fever is unknown. Frankly, if it remained in Lyran control, it is possible that it would be decommissioned in favor of something heavier… like an Atlas II line.

RyuWanderfalke

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2013, 04:37:54 »
Losing Hesperus by treaty would be unthinkable, thus Hesperus does indeed remain Lyran, even after the formation of the rots. :)

A. Lurker

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2013, 05:20:15 »
The Sentinel is a fun design to tinker with and a great MinionMech -- like the Scorpions and Vedettes in the world of tanks, it's not really going to win any fights by itself, but it fills out the ranks nicely.

The main exception to the latter part of that statement being, of course, the "royal" model, but then I still haven't decided whether I'm even willing to count that one as a Sentinel at all or whether it's more just some eldritch abomination designed by somebody with big gun envy to me. :D

garhkal

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2013, 15:35:02 »
Personally the base model with the AC2 is imo poor.  I feel it would have been better tonage spent had they gone with a pair of LRM 5s.  The tonnage saved could have been used to get guardian and beagle probe.
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pensiveswetness

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #4 on: 31 May 2013, 17:32:53 »
I was under the impression (and BTW agrees with this) that the STN-C was a DCMS modification in the 3050's. The Sentinal was a uncommon design given in unknown numbers by COMSTAR in the 3030's, after all.

Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #5 on: 31 May 2013, 19:39:05 »
The 3050 Upgrade write-up seems to specify the -C as a ComStar upgrade...

Col.Hengist

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #6 on: 31 May 2013, 22:30:55 »
The sentinal is in the rats for DCMS for Kurita for 39 not fed suns or lyrCom is producing them. Historical war of 39 page 146.
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pensiveswetness

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #7 on: 01 June 2013, 09:20:31 »
The 3050 Upgrade write-up seems to specify the -C as a ComStar upgrade...

just walked into the bathroom and looked  :o (yeah. in a household with 3 kids and mrs, what do you think i read when i have 'throne authority?  #P) the STN-C is a direct modification to the STN-3M's that COMSTAR gave to the DCMS. i dont COMSTAR even uses C3 (other than incentive to build the C3i later in the decade of C3's introduction).
« Last Edit: 01 June 2013, 09:23:08 by pensiveswetness »

A. Lurker

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #8 on: 01 June 2013, 09:54:18 »
As the original article states, and the MUL seems to agree with it, the STN-C appears to actually be a fairly young design. Introduced only in 3065? Feels a bit late to be one of Kurita's original "rip out a medium laser and replace it with a slave" refits to me...

Getz

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #9 on: 02 June 2013, 07:18:45 »
Ah - the Sentinel...

I've always quite liked the look of the thing (although the mini is pretty bad) but objectively, it's a piece of junk.  The obvious comparisons are with the Hermes II and the Clint, both of which manage to be better armed and either have decent armour for their size or jump capability.  You know you're in trouble when you're coming up short compared to those designs...

Then, of course, there's the Royal variant - it's sort of like the mech the Hollander always wanted to be but isn't.  I have a lot of time for the idea of a small, fast Gauss rifle caddy and the STN-3Lb is pretty much perfect for the weight class and it's a scary piece of kit to run up against when you're fighting against a notionally light lance.  I also looks a hell of a lot like a custom design I came up with a long, long time ago...
« Last Edit: 06 June 2013, 11:30:10 by Getz »

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Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #10 on: 02 June 2013, 09:45:43 »
Ah - the Sentinel...

I've always quite liked the look of the thing (although the mini is pretty bad) but objectively, it's a piece of c**p.  The obvious comparisons are with the Hermes II and the Clint, both of which manage to be better armed and either have decent armour for their size or jump capability.  You know you're in trouble when you're coming up short compared to those designs...

Then, of course, there's the Royal variant - it's sort of like the mech the Hollander always wanted to be but isn't.  I have a lot of time for the idea of a small, fast Gauss rifle caddy and the STN-3Lb is pretty much perfect for the weight class and it's a scary piece of kit to run up against when you're fighting against a notionally light lance.  I also looks a hell of a lot like a custom design I came up with a long, long time ago...

That is my impression as well.  It looks nice, but aside from the royal they are at best marginally useful support 'Mechs, although they do have a price tag to match so it might not be a terrible choice to fill out a unit.  The one thing I would like to see is a 5-X variant because cheap 5-X carriers make very nice support units on a combined arms battlefield with their flack bonus, accuracy, and long range crit seeking.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #11 on: 02 June 2013, 10:23:03 »
Since the reworking of the Sentinel's history into a Lyran 'Mech rather than a purely Star League one, I've been interested in how it might pair with the Commando as a recon platform.  They both have the same 6/9/0 move profile and, in a 3025 environment, an AC/5 is a potentially devastating weapon against other recon 'Mechs if only by virtue of being longer-ranged.  I could see Lyran recon hunter/killer lances of 2 Sentinels and 2 Commandos, or 1 and 3.  Anyone tried anything like that?

Col.Hengist

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #12 on: 02 June 2013, 10:49:04 »
I'm curious, In what publication did it be come a Lyran production mech? Not that I'm complaining at all, I'm pretty happy about it. I had thought it was C* giving them to DCMS that brought them back.
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Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #13 on: 02 June 2013, 11:07:23 »
Both 3039 and the latest 3050 Update indicate that it was produced for the Lyrans first.

OTOH, both also indicate that the move to "Bigger is Better" in Lyran paradigm meant that the Combine may have helped bring the thing back, too.

Col.Hengist

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #14 on: 02 June 2013, 13:44:18 »
which 39? i looked the other day and it's not on the RAT's for the LC, only the DCMS.
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Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #15 on: 02 June 2013, 14:26:52 »
TROs

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #16 on: 02 June 2013, 14:39:02 »
which 39? i looked the other day and it's not on the RAT's for the LC, only the DCMS.

Doesn't really mean much. RATs aren't meant to be representative, they're just there to let you quickly generate a random force with some "factional" flavor, and the number of available slots is limited. At best, a RAT can tell you that a given faction does in fact field a certain 'Mech or other unit in the timeframe it's for (and even that's dubious on occasion); it's no indicator of what all else the faction in question may also have or not have as the case may be.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #17 on: 02 June 2013, 15:29:09 »
TRO 3039 has Lyran production of the lowtech STN ending at the turn of the 31st century.  The Sentinels used by the DCMS in the War of 3039 were from Comstar's storehouses of SL-era machines.  Hesperus II resumed production of the STN-3L in the mid-3050s.

Neufeld

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #18 on: 02 June 2013, 16:04:25 »
It is worth noting that the STN-1S is the first known mech (by in-universe chronology) to mount an AC/2. The second is the DRG-1C from 2752.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #19 on: 02 June 2013, 16:59:33 »
It is worth noting that the STN-1S is the first known mech (by in-universe chronology) to mount an AC/2. The second is the DRG-1C from 2752.

First known 'Mech being the operative term. The AC/2 predates the BattleMech itself by about a hundred and forty years, and it's reasonably unlikely that in the just over two hundred more that separate the first Mackies from the first Sentinel nobody would have ever tried mounting one on a 'Mech chassis while the entire universe waited with bated breath for Defiance Industries' stroke of genius to finally happen. :) Chances are that we simply haven't heard of these 'Mechs yet, much as we didn't know about the Talos or Alfar before Historical: Reunification War came out, either.

Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #20 on: 02 June 2013, 17:36:03 »
First known 'Mech being the operative term. The AC/2 predates the BattleMech itself by about a hundred and forty years, and it's reasonably unlikely that in the just over two hundred more that separate the first Mackies from the first Sentinel nobody would have ever tried mounting one on a 'Mech chassis while the entire universe waited with bated breath for Defiance Industries' stroke of genius to finally happen. :) Chances are that we simply haven't heard of these 'Mechs yet, much as we didn't know about the Talos or Alfar before Historical: Reunification War came out, either.

It is also possible that the AC 2 was originally designed to be a lightweight gun for use on VTOLs and production was very small for a while due to the low damage.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #21 on: 02 June 2013, 18:51:33 »
Or it's possible in-universe 'Mech designers share the view of much of the playerbase that the AC/2 is next to useless. ;)  Though that begs the question why they thought the AC/5 was so much better... ;)

Through the lens of the TW ruleset, though, the AC/2 is a pretty specialized weapon, good for ground-based AA fire in that it can force lawn-dart checks, but not very much else.  Given that fact, you don't really need many platforms that mount it.  Perhaps Age of War and early Star League military thinkers were content to leave AA to dedicated vehicles or ones' own aerospace force, and only in the mid-to-late Star League, with a 'Mech for every role, did dedicated AA 'Mechs like the Rifleman become a viable concept.  Certainly, the Sentinel doesn't seem to be conceived as such.

Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #22 on: 02 June 2013, 19:18:47 »
Through the lens of the TW ruleset, though, the AC/2 is a pretty specialized weapon, good for ground-based AA fire in that it can force lawn-dart checks, but not very much else.  Given that fact, you don't really need many platforms that mount it.  Perhaps Age of War and early Star League military thinkers were content to leave AA to dedicated vehicles or ones' own aerospace force, and only in the mid-to-late Star League, with a 'Mech for every role, did dedicated AA 'Mechs like the Rifleman become a viable concept.  Certainly, the Sentinel doesn't seem to be conceived as such.

This seems likely to me, although I do feel the need to point out the other big use for the AC 2.  It is a very potent harassment weapon on fast moving units like the Warrior VTOL which can wear the enemy down with impunity, especially if they are heavy on conventional assets which will be very vulnerable to motive crits if the VTOLs are on the sides of the formation.  Of course, this also precludes its use on 'Mechs until later on, but it is worth considering.


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Col.Hengist

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #23 on: 03 June 2013, 00:26:03 »
a TAC is still a TAC or a head hit and AC2's can do that. AC2 for the longest time was the longest range gun and having a little sniping helo out there was totally annoying.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #24 on: 03 June 2013, 03:30:02 »
The way I see it, the time period after the big stompy robot genie got out of the bottle and popped up in the various nations beyond just the Terran Hegemony really should have been (and IMO still likely was) a time of experimentation in which militaries that could get their hands on it would have tried to stick all kinds of established weapons onto the new platform to see which worked best. Not every would-be designer's whim would have actually made it to the assembly lines, of course, and even of the ones that did make it many would have seen only limited production runs; but I'd certainly expect at least a couple, possibly more, of original "early" AC/2-carrying 'Mech designs to have popped up before the century was over, and that's before going into as-yet-unrevealed variants of those "stock" canon 'Mechs we already do know about.

We'll just have to see if we ever see them. Until then all that is just speculation as far as canon is concerned, plausible sounding enough though I think it is. :)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #25 on: 03 June 2013, 05:07:49 »
Through the lens of the TW ruleset, though, the AC/2 is a pretty specialized weapon, good for ground-based AA fire in that it can force lawn-dart checks, but not very much else.  Given that fact, you don't really need many platforms that mount it.  Perhaps Age of War and early Star League military thinkers were content to leave AA to dedicated vehicles or ones' own aerospace force, and only in the mid-to-late Star League, with a 'Mech for every role, did dedicated AA 'Mechs like the Rifleman become a viable concept.  Certainly, the Sentinel doesn't seem to be conceived as such.
Yeah, a Vedette, either the standard AC-5 or the AC-2 can do the same job and much cheaper, and the transport foot print is much lower, in place of a STN-1S I can take a Vedette which fills to AA Role and something else, like Alacorn to fill the fire support role

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #26 on: 03 June 2013, 09:16:31 »
Yeah, a Vedette, either the standard AC-5 or the AC-2 can do the same job and much cheaper, and the transport foot print is much lower, in place of a STN-1S I can take a Vedette which fills to AA Role and something else, like Alacorn to fill the fire support role
uh... mechanically speaking*, the STN has a better range of motion to track a target. That tank shouldn't be able to shot straight up  ::) but yes, financially speaking (and logistically too), the Vedette works... in conditions conducive to a ICE engine and Tracked Motive system.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #27 on: 03 June 2013, 09:21:01 »
The original text in TRO 2750 describes the Sentinel as being used to support infantry, and I can see it functioning well in this role. You could assign a lance or so of Sentinels to provide backup to a battalion.

Remember that infantry have three great weaknesses(ignoring field guns); lack of speed, lack of range,and lack of concentrated punch. Units assigned to support them must remedy some or all of these.

Sentinels certainly have speed. While they can't make the infantry move faster like APCs can, they can rapidly move back and forth across the line of the infantry's advance to quickly reinforce trouble spots, or respond to flanking attacks.

They've certainly got range, using their main gun to engage targets far beyond the range of most infantry, and can also attack air units(which infantry normally cannot do at all).

While most Sentinels aren't known for doing real concentrated damage(the Royal being an obvious and scary exception), they still punch harder than a rifle platoon, and a lance of them concentrating on a target should definitely open a few holes that the infantry can use their crit-seeking abilities on.

On top of all that, their anti-infantry abilities should not be underestimated. We're not talking about burst-fire here, but suppression. Being cluster weapons, both the Ultra-5 and SRM rack of the classic Sentinel provide bonuses when making suppression fire rolls. If my infantry have to clear out a particularly troublesome building or patch of cover with dug-in troops, I'd use the Sentinel's fire to force the enemy to keep their heads down, allowing my troops to close in (relative) safety until they can engage the other guys at close quarters.
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Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #28 on: 03 June 2013, 18:40:59 »
a TAC is still a TAC or a head hit and AC2's can do that. AC2 for the longest time was the longest range gun and having a little sniping helo out there was totally annoying.

Yes, but what annoys 'Mechs is lethal to vehicles.  One good motive crit during the move-to-contact phase will completely take a vehicle out of the upcoming battle and can make it a sitting duck for any artillery in range (which the VTOL can spot for too for extra fun).

The way I see it, the time period after the big stompy robot genie got out of the bottle and popped up in the various nations beyond just the Terran Hegemony really should have been (and IMO still likely was) a time of experimentation in which militaries that could get their hands on it would have tried to stick all kinds of established weapons onto the new platform to see which worked best. Not every would-be designer's whim would have actually made it to the assembly lines, of course, and even of the ones that did make it many would have seen only limited production runs; but I'd certainly expect at least a couple, possibly more, of original "early" AC/2-carrying 'Mech designs to have popped up before the century was over, and that's before going into as-yet-unrevealed variants of those "stock" canon 'Mechs we already do know about.

We'll just have to see if we ever see them. Until then all that is just speculation as far as canon is concerned, plausible sounding enough though I think it is. :)

This presumes the AC2 was considered an established weapon and not a specialized tool designed specifically for certain niche applications that was later generalized out to more units.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: STN-*** Sentinel
« Reply #29 on: 04 June 2013, 02:23:08 »
This presumes the AC2 was considered an established weapon and not a specialized tool designed specifically for certain niche applications that was later generalized out to more units.

Not necessarily. Even assuming it was in fact the latter (which is itself pure speculation as far as I can tell -- that we may have some idea of what players think of the AC/2 based on its abstracted game stats doesn't tell us much about anyone's in-universe opinion of it at the time in question, and I don't believe we have much hard canon information about that one way or the other), there's not much reason to think that people wouldn't eventually hit upon the idea of simply building suitably specialized 'Mechs to replace and/or reinforce their already existing non-'Mech specialist units with.

At that point we're just quibbling about whether or not it could and would really have taken two hundred years for a reasonably obvious idea like that to be conceived of and implemented by somebody. ;)