Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge  (Read 9376 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« on: 06 June 2014, 14:35:51 »
’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge

Scourge. An enemy of savage ferocity, whether a human barbarian (see: Attila) or a force of nature (see: locust plague). A pureblood Sith lord who became Wrath of the Emperor for a time. And a 65-ton BattleMech that is a recent addition to the Inner Sphere.

As in, so new that many battle computers still have a hard time recognizing it.

The Scourge was apparently designed as a heavy scout (though in the typical Lyran order of battle, it might rank as an ultralight). Comparisons have been made to venerable designs like the Vindicator and Shadow Hawk. Note, both of those were medium-class designs, and in one fashion or another, slower than the Scourge.

First entering service in 3131, the SCG-WD1 model is built around an endo-steel chassis and is powered by a 325-rated VOX extralight engine, giving it comparable ground speeds to the Koschei. Four jump jets give it similar jumping range as the venerable Catapult. Thirteen and a half tons of standard plate give it maximum protection in a 9, 30/12, 20/10, 20, 30 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs respectively). Weaponry consists of a quartet of extended-model medium lasers in the right arm and a medium pulse and Gauss Rifle in the left arm. Two tons of ammunition are stored in the left torso. Twelve heat sinks is one extended medium off from able to cool a jumping Alpha.

This model was sold to all that were willing to buy it. Which is how the Scourge made its way into all armories. With the profits, StarCorps funded a slightly more advanced model that became a Lyran exclusive. Designated SCG-WF1, this model walked off the lines in 3133, and uses twelve and a half tons of light-class ferro-fibrous armor to provide the same protection. One heat sink was also removed. All to add an Actuator Enhancement System to the right arm, which improves the accuracy of the lasers placed there.

Using one of these depends on if you wish to be a sniper or a closer-in fighter. This may seem counterintuitive but I have seen some players who make a career out of just using Gauss Rifles (or similar long range weapons), when they have more firepower than just the one weapon. Still, with the proper pilot, you can choose to stand and deliver, or jump about at long or medium ranges just peppering those you wish. Of course, you will eventually run out of bullets.

The other option is to close and mix it up. While getting into direct (i.e. physical) contact is not a really good option, fluttering about within short range will allow for you to cause your foe significant headaches. Watch your heat, as ignoring it too long will crimp your style (though your ammunition isn’t heat-sensitive). That said, you do have one potential problem. While the Gauss Rifle is nice for opening large holes, and sometimes eliminating enemy pilots, it is also a bomb waiting for the right impact. If that arm is starting to get a little thin armored, it might be best to protect it.

Fighting one starts with resigning yourself that you’ll be dealing with Gauss slugs every so often. Then again, fighting fire with fire can be a good strategy. So, bringing a few Gauss Rifles of your own to shell him is fair. If he wishes to dance closer, the standard faire of plasmas, pulses, and particle cannons also apply. And since the Scourge comes from an era where Clan tech is, at least, a bit more common than it used to be, that too can be helpful. If you have the will, targeting his torsos or arms is a decent plan. If you want to frazzle his brain, the left arm is proper, though simply taking out a torso and crippling his engine is perhaps better.

As the Scourge is a recent addition, it should be used for quite some time, at least in the waning days of the Dark Age. I will note my two main problems with the design. One is that it is subobtimal in the number of jump jets. The second is the lack of CASE, though that is more of a campaign thing than a game idea.

Mattlov

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #1 on: 06 June 2014, 14:40:56 »
Yay!  An upright Jinggau!

I think this was made in the MWDA universe simply because of the popularity of the Jinggau.  The designs are almost identical.  Which means it is a solid design, capable fighter, but still a bit fragile with the XL.  Since it has to brawl, that is usually the downfall of a medium laser boat like that.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #2 on: 06 June 2014, 14:51:41 »
I like this 'Mech, the Scourge is nice balanced machine with a variant that can be a Joker in the mix if you field more than one.  Its sold but not broken design to me.  I like it better than the Götterdämmerung, which is good design but not a rock solid as the fluff bills it at.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #3 on: 06 June 2014, 18:45:45 »
Pretty sure by FM3145 there are actually quite a few different types of these . . .

Like it was mentioned, it pretty much is a Jinggau updated clone.  It should be a solid design for the League.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #4 on: 06 June 2014, 19:34:04 »
I like this thing on paper.  I'd rather have another ton of gauss ammo in exchange for a medium.  But it looks pretty simple the way it is.  Soften your opponent up with the gauss then get in close range and spread some laser light love all over him.

This isn't a bad mech for a newer player to drive, it's simple to use.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #5 on: 06 June 2014, 19:37:39 »
lol . . . I can see someone painting one up with 'Light Show' on the arm that packs all the lasers.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #6 on: 06 June 2014, 20:01:49 »
I'm a big fan of the Scourge; it's pretty high on the list of "MWDA 'Mechs that I wish I had a mini of" (Donations appreciated). With that being said, it's a pretty solid trooper design that functions well in a wide variety of roles and packs a decent punch. The accuracy on the AES Laser Arm is pretty frighteningly good, all things considered, and it effectively gets better range out of them then it would otherwise. There's also a fair deal of range overlap there with the Gauss Rifle, so that's a bonus.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #7 on: 06 June 2014, 20:56:09 »
In universe, I guess it's nice that the Elsies got a Jinggau.  But game-wise, I really wish that precious TRO and RS space for tournament/canon designs wasn't used up duplicating stuff we already bought six TROs ago.

Every canon design should pass a test for substantial originality.  The Scourge doesn't.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #8 on: 06 June 2014, 21:19:24 »
In universe, I guess it's nice that the Elsies got a Jinggau.  But game-wise, I really wish that precious TRO and RS space for tournament/canon designs wasn't used up duplicating stuff we already bought six TROs ago.

Every canon design should pass a test for substantial originality.  The Scourge doesn't.

Guess we can stop making more designs because everything's pretty much already been done...

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #9 on: 07 June 2014, 00:17:55 »
In universe, I guess it's nice that the Elsies got a Jinggau.  But game-wise, I really wish that precious TRO and RS space for tournament/canon designs wasn't used up duplicating stuff we already bought six TROs ago.

Every canon design should pass a test for substantial originality.  The Scourge doesn't.

And you are absolutely right - the Elsies have created their own Jinggau, La-dee-freakin-da. And the Elsies should, it's a fantastic cavalry mech, if a wee bit on the fragile side with the XL motor.

Jadehellbringer and I have had this discussion about this mech (and several others designs) on more than one occasion.  You really need to look at this from an in-universe perspective as opposed to a straight-up game perspective. The Jinggau is a Capellan mech.  From the Capellan mindset, unless you are a Canopian (maybe),  you are probably not going to play well with others. As a result if you are a non-Capellan and are going to try and procure a Jinggau from the Capellans, the answer you will get is probably to be along the lines of "you can pry my Jinggau from my cold, dead, hands".  As a result, the Lyrans graciously stepped and filled consumer demand for the "I'm-non-Capellan-but-I-still-love-me-some-Jinggau" set...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #10 on: 07 June 2014, 03:14:10 »
Redshirt, you're forgetting the salvage rules, although they can only explain small numbers, but still

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #11 on: 07 June 2014, 04:05:33 »
Redshirt, you're forgetting the salvage rules, although they can only explain small numbers, but still

Really, what salvage left of a new design should ideally be used for is analysis and reverse engineering, not just "patch this only copy we have back together and use it to fill in the ranks as-is". Factions shamelessly copying traits of enemy units that clearly work (and the occasional complete design, for that matter) whenever they have the chance is what I'd expect to see as the rule, not the exception.

Of course, that'd play merry hob with the notion of "factional flavor", so that sort of thing stays kind of uncommon (except where it's needed to handwave why everybody suddenly has some new toys at once) for mainly out-of-universe reasons. But the Lyrans eventually getting around to building what amounts to their own take on the Jinggau? Sure, why not. It's not exactly a major shocker.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #12 on: 07 June 2014, 08:04:24 »
To be fair, a Gauss Rifle blowing in an arm is not the same as tanking the whole mech if it were torso mounted.

Will it blow chunks? Yeah but unless you're already kinda shot up, you would be able to survive the destruction of the arm assuming pristine internals on the torso. (I forget, do ammo explosions deal damage to the structure when it transfers?)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #13 on: 07 June 2014, 08:11:49 »
Guess we can stop making more designs because everything's pretty much already been done...

There's lots of unique and good design approaches that have never been published.  One can just peruse the design boards here and on other BT forums to see that.  Even in highly limiting 3025-era tech -- even in 70ish ton designs -- I can think of several effective loadouts that have never been published, including a 3/5 PPC & AC/20 pocket assault, 4/6 PPC & LRM-20 "Archhammer", an AC/5 or 10 & LRM-15 or 20 combo, etc.

You really need to look at this from an in-universe perspective as opposed to a straight-up game perspective.

I acknowledge the in-game perspective.  That's why I wrote:

In universe, I guess it's nice that the Elsies got a Jinggau.

But as a game customer, when I pay for tournament/canon designs, I'd rather get a genuinely new capability than pay for the same basic capability over and over.  Instead of Tomahawk II's Dire-Wolf-with-endo-composite approach, which just fiddles at the margins with the Dire Wolf's pod tonnage and crit slot allotment, I'd rather get something genuinely new, like a canon "Iron Cheetah" 4/6 100-ton Clan omni or a canon "Archangel" zombie 100-ton Clan omni. 

Quote
As a result, the Lyrans graciously stepped and filled consumer demand for the "I'm-non-Capellan-but-I-still-love-me-some-Jinggau" set...

We all have total fiat over our own campaigns.  If I want my pet Elsie merc company to have a Jinggau, I'll find a way between a Cappie contract, salvage, inheritance, theft, a new hire from Cappie space, or outright purchase.

What we don't have control over is the range of official, canon designs available to our campaigns or tournaments.  And for that, I'd rather have access to the maximum range of genuinely original designs, rather than spend limited game funds on the same basic design with different art two or three times over for different factions.

I'd also note that, if there's too much copying between factions, then the factions lose some of their flavor.  In-universe, they should have their own tactical preferences and industrial limitations that drive out unique designs, and from a game perspective, it's less interesting and entertaining to face an opponent with the same basic designs and capabilities just painted with different logos or represented by different minis.

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« Last Edit: 07 June 2014, 08:41:05 by Natasha Kerensky »
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"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #14 on: 07 June 2014, 08:45:54 »
(I forget, do ammo explosions deal damage to the structure when it transfers?)

Yes. Check the damage resolution sequence on TW p. 122, especially steps 6 thru 8; leftover damage from an internal explosion that's not vented by CASE goes straight back to step 3 (damaging structure) in the next location in, while other excess damage goes to step 1instead and hits armor first.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #15 on: 07 June 2014, 15:28:21 »
And you are absolutely right - the Elsies have created their own Jinggau, La-dee-freakin-da. And the Elsies should, it's a fantastic cavalry mech, if a wee bit on the fragile side with the XL motor.

Jadehellbringer and I have had this discussion about this mech (and several others designs) on more than one occasion.  You really need to look at this from an in-universe perspective as opposed to a straight-up game perspective. The Jinggau is a Capellan mech.  From the Capellan mindset, unless you are a Canopian (maybe),  you are probably not going to play well with others. As a result if you are a non-Capellan and are going to try and procure a Jinggau from the Capellans, the answer you will get is probably to be along the lines of "you can pry my Jinggau from my cold, dead, hands".  As a result, the Lyrans graciously stepped and filled consumer demand for the "I'm-non-Capellan-but-I-still-love-me-some-Jinggau" set...

And lest anyone think that sounds outlandish, those same Lyrans pulled the same trick decades earlier when Earthwerks was told not to sell Apollos to certain nations... a few years later, along came the Cobra. So it makes sense to me that such a thing would be done again (particularly for a Mech as impressive as the Jinggau!). Sure, you could salvage a few and get them working (assuming you face Liao often, which Steiner really doesn't). But... building your own, and selling it to anyone with some spare cash? To say nothing of filling out your OWN ranks? That's a pretty good idea by the Lyrans. (Particularly when you factor that they already have experience building a fast jumping heavy with a Gauss rifle in the Falconer, and know firsthand how difficult a Mech like that can be to fight after nearly a century of dealing with the Jade Falcons and their love of the Summoner.)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #16 on: 08 June 2014, 02:36:57 »
Something else to consider.  The Jinggau has been out of production since the Victoria War.  So not only was it made on the other side of the Inner Sphere from the Lyrans, there's no new ones coming online any more.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #17 on: 08 June 2014, 05:24:36 »
For me, the worst of it is that only jumps 4 instead of the magic 5. It is a flaw. It is small but, if the enemy is smart, it can kill you. However, the EAS in games with gunnery 4 is very effective, so the variant got the seal of approval.
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martian

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #18 on: 08 June 2014, 05:44:12 »
For me, the worst of it is that only jumps 4 instead of the magic 5. It is a flaw. It is small but, if the enemy is smart, it can kill you. However, the EAS in games with gunnery 4 is very effective, so the variant got the seal of approval.

Yes, it's a flaw, but the WizKids article specifically said: "Jump Capacity: 120 meters".

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #19 on: 08 June 2014, 10:24:48 »
Lol, where would you find the extra mass for a 5th JJ when looking at a field refit?  Not sure there really is anywhere to scrape it up.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #20 on: 08 June 2014, 11:05:34 »
I say lose the pulse laser.  For those two tons you get another ton of gauss ammo and another jump jet.  Still retain the medium lasers barrage in the other arm.  Now you are more mobile and capable of taking more long range shots with the big gun without running out of ammo. 


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #21 on: 08 June 2014, 16:01:52 »
I like it. Decent cavalry mech with nice reach, firepower and mobility. It's flexible enough to fight side by side with a Wolfhound on recon or with a Zeus during a assault. Fits in with the rest of the Lyran family of mech nicely.     

I say lose the pulse laser.  For those two tons you get another ton of gauss ammo and another jump jet.  Still retain the medium lasers barrage in the other arm.  Now you are more mobile and capable of taking more long range shots with the big gun without running out of ammo.
I would like to see this on a future variant.     
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #22 on: 08 June 2014, 23:53:24 »
FM3145 shows how many variants?  Because I thought we had 4 or 5 listed, but it would be interesting to see what each FWL faction did with it . . . how much hate would it get with a LGR?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #23 on: 08 June 2014, 23:59:21 »
Pretty sure by FM3145 there are actually quite a few different types of these . . .

Like it was mentioned, it pretty much is a Jinggau updated clone.  It should be a solid design for the League.

FM3145 shows how many variants?  Because I thought we had 4 or 5 listed, but it would be interesting to see what each FWL faction did with it . . . how much hate would it get with a LGR?

I think you must be thinking about a different 'Mech. The Scourge is a Lyran 'Mech, not a League 'Mech.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #24 on: 09 June 2014, 00:02:00 »
But it is also all over the FWL tables- means they were exported a LOT to the League proto-states.
Colt Ward
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #25 on: 09 June 2014, 00:50:45 »
I think you must be thinking about a different 'Mech. The Scourge is a Lyran 'Mech, not a League 'Mech.

One factory is on Emris IV in the new Free Worlds League.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #26 on: 09 June 2014, 02:53:33 »
One factory is on Emris IV in the new Free Worlds League.

Ah, I must have missed that. Sorry for the confusion, carry on.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #27 on: 09 June 2014, 03:33:15 »
FM3145 shows how many variants?  Because I thought we had 4 or 5 listed, but it would be interesting to see what each FWL faction did with it . . . how much hate would it get with a LGR?
Currently, only have two variants exist.   
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #28 on: 09 June 2014, 08:32:34 »
Currently, only have two variants exist.   
Yes. But there's a hint that another variant without Gauss Rifle has been developed.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #29 on: 09 June 2014, 23:15:19 »
Yes. But there's a hint that another variant without Gauss Rifle has been developed.
... and I would love to see it :) but we currently still only have record sheets for 2 variants out side of custom fan builds.   
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #30 on: 10 June 2014, 13:19:07 »

I would like to see this on a future variant.   

It's about as utilitarian as a 5/8/5 heavy cav mech gets really.  Basically an IS non-omni Summoner.  With more armor!


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #31 on: 11 June 2014, 04:30:39 »
And don't forget the Scourge has the AES built into its laser arm, giving them a nice -1 to hit naturally.  I like the Scourge, its a very good all round design. 
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cold1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #32 on: 11 June 2014, 07:07:35 »
I'd rather have the AES on the gauss arm.  I know damage potential is higher with the laser side.  But when I have 16 shots with a gauss rifle I want to make everyone count.  That -1 at longer ranges is worth more to me than with the lasers up close.  With a 5/8/4 heavy I want to control range as much as I can.  The ability to increase my to hit odds with a 15 point weapon at 20ish hexes is important.  I want to make those 16 shots count.  If a laser misses it doesn't mean less ammo.  At the point where I'm using the lasers efficiently (medium-short) I would expect to be close enough to have better to hit numbers. 

Might just be my fighting style.  I prefer mechs that can do solid damage at longer range then close to bring lots of smaller weapons on target.  I'm a big fan of the paired ERPPC (or IS heavy) and paired streak 6 combo.  The Night Gyr prime is a favorite of mine to do big damage at range then close in and throw MPLs and the AC at someone up close.

Not saying the AES isn't good on the laser arm, but it would be better for me on the gauss.


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #33 on: 11 June 2014, 07:19:20 »
As a humorous side note, every time read Scourge's name, i keep thinking of the Decepticon version of him., with his AES Target Master in his arm. ;)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #34 on: 11 June 2014, 21:53:47 »
What happened to the Jinggao itself?  Is it no longer in production on Victoria?

(And what does the Federated Suns call the Victoria they seized from the Capellans?  They already had a planet named that, didn't they?)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #35 on: 11 June 2014, 21:55:06 »
The production lines on Victoria were razed by the defending Capellans as they withdrew.  The Suns were eventually able to refurbish several of the lines, but presumably the Jinggau wasn't one of them.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCG-W*1 Scourge
« Reply #36 on: 11 June 2014, 22:48:34 »
The production lines on Victoria were razed by the defending Capellans as they withdrew.  The Suns were eventually able to refurbish several of the lines, but presumably the Jinggau wasn't one of them.

And anyway, those lines are back in Capellan hands now.  How clever really, saves the Capellans the trouble and expense of rebuilding them.  >:D

Anyway, even if the Suns did rebuild the Jinggao line (yes, I'm aware of the way I'm spelling it), they would almost certainly want to change the 'Mech's appearance and name, to downplay any Xin Sheng associations.

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