BattleTech: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion, Vol. 1

[Joewrightgm]

That’s probably the hardest part; I’ve got a lot of pennies saved to throw at this, but I’ve also got a lot of demand for my hobby dollar right now.  I’m also looking at the Arano book that I’ve been pining for, but now I’m leery of buying because this and 15mm historicals  are threatening to bleed me dry.

EDIT: YOLO and bought House Arano; hopefully the KS goal will be lowered by $15 or so!

[I am Belch II]

If its already been discussed sorry if Im repeating.
If  I gave moneys for this Kickstarter...what do I get?

[Cubby]

If its already been discussed sorry if Im repeating.
If  I gave moneys for this Kickstarter...what do I get?

Full details will be revealed when the Kickstarter launches on July 17.

That's July 17. Not Today.

[I am Belch II]

Thanks. I never put money into a kickstarter before. I hear some bad things about them so just a want to get all my ducks in a row before laying down some cash.

[marauder648]

Thanks. I never put money into a kickstarter before. I hear some bad things about them so just a want to get all my ducks in a row before laying down some cash.

This is a very good breakdown of how Kickstarters work

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=65650.msg1511939#msg1511939

I too have seen my share of kickstarter horror stories, but I have a feeling this one will be fine, because they are not making something absurd, or trying to break the laws of thermodynamics with their product :D

[Bedwyr]

This is a very good breakdown of how Kickstarters work

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=65650.msg1511939#msg1511939

I too have seen my share of kickstarter horror stories, but I have a feeling this one will be fine, because they are not making something absurd, or trying to break the laws of thermodynamics with their product :D

For what it's worth, I've donated to something like 10-15 Kickstarters. Nearly always by established people or at least those who have shown a strong working prototype whether a game or a physical object. Two failed in fundraising and maybe a couple were weaksauce but they eventually delivered. On no project did I have expectations of having a product delivered on a timeline, *especially* for video games and board games. Production is just too hard and too unpredictable to scope that out.

Those are my expectations:
- It's money I can stand to lose.
- I have zero expectations on the project being delivered on time (they almost never are unless it's super easy like waterproof playing cards being delivered on their third KS).
- I only rarely pay attention to KS updates after awhile unless the fit takes me. I just make a note of the delivery address and that they owe me a product, put it in a OneNote list, and then ignore it.
- When I move, I look up the information in my OneNote list and find out who to contact about changing the delivery address (sometimes it's directly through KS, more often a service like Backerkit or the company directly).
- When it comes, it's usually been a long time so it feels like Christmas.

A note on fulfillment:
I don't know how CGL would run this, but do note that if a KS says they use Backerkit for fulfillment, that means opening an account with them and connecting up your KS email. If you're one of those who doesn't like opening secondary or tertiary accounts, read the campaign and pledge details carefully. And don't complain to the artist or maker about it. This is a commonly accepted practice, KS itself tries to stay out of production for legal and business reasons, and fulfillment is super hard. I've seen artists work themselves into delays, sickness, mental illness, and injury trying to do it themselves. For them these contract services are a life saver.

[Jaim Magnus]

that means 30 days to save your pennies

What's a penny? Have to save nickels and dimes. But I will.

[sadlerbw]

This Kickstarter will rate fairly high on personal 'chances of success' scale, even without having seen the offer yet. Why? Because they meet several of the criteria I've seen in other KS's that have ended well for me:

- They aren't doing anything new. This is work they already do, just using KS so they don't have to float as much cash during production.
- The team is already built or has already worked together. The designers, writers, managers, production companies, etc. are not coming together for the first time.
- They have previous experience pricing the sort of product/service they are Kickstarting. The chances that they have no idea what making widget X costs to make in volume are very low.
- The 'company' isn't a one-man show.

There are a few other criteria I look for that I won't be able to evaluate until it comes out. Those would generally be:
- Are there too many, or too ambitious stretch goals? These have killed the viability of a few things I've backed, cool as they were.
- Are they getting so much response/money that production plans will have to change to deliver to all backers before the sun burns out.
- How far along in development is the product when the KS starts? Using KS to provide capital to fund full-scale production is less risky, and less likely to blow past all deadlines than a product that is nothing more than concept art and design documents.
- Can the organization handle the customer service load from a KS? There is a real danger in KS-land of loosing so much time to customer service, that you can't execute on the core product.

I think the proposed project will tick at least a couple of those boxes as well, so I feel like this should be on the safer end of Kickstarters I've backed. My biggest worries are overdoing it on stretch goals, and getting slammed with customer service demands, but even with those issues, I'd still probably back.

Finally, I agree that you should never expect KS's to meet their initial timelines. I've had some that got close, but I can't recall one I participated in that actually finished the full delivery to backers in the time frame that was originally proposed. It is pretty much expected with crowdfunding. Kickstarter is still very much gambling, and I try to remind myself of that every time I spend money crowdfunding.

[Sartris]

sensible analysis

as long as the miniature manufacturers are lined up and fulfill the order. that's been the real sticking point for the past decade, no? of course, if that's your worry you shouldn't be in the mini business in the first place.

[Geont]

Based on information from Anthony Scroggins Patreon I can say that they pretty far in development. Basically they have 3D models of Clan mechs and a lot of IS mechs. They even showed us some 3D printed minis from mentioned models. And I am pretty determined to be it my first KS that I help to fund (the timing is also right - I have birthday in July :))

[I am Belch II]

Thanks for the updates.
I know I will donate to this cause...just don't know how much I will open the wallet for.

[Sartris]

what has been shown are prototypes. mass production will take place in china. with delays on the production end occurring prominently at least twice in the last ten years (including the lastest box), i'd caution against assuming it's not going to strike again. it won't sink the project - but as others have said, expect delays to the proposed timeframe.

[Colt Ward]

If it arrives before Christmas 2020 I will be happy . . . wrap up a box to give the kid, expand his starter company into a reinforced company I guess.

Good points saddlerbw, you put into phrases what I was already thinking.

[carlisimo]

Doing this through Kickstarter makes it hard for retailers to get any benefit from the initial sales wave.  That’s not going to help with local visibility, but one thing at a time, I guess. 

[sadlerbw]

Based on information from Anthony Scroggins Patreon I can say that they pretty far in development. Basically they have 3D models of Clan mechs and a lot of IS mechs. They even showed us some 3D printed minis from mentioned models. And I am pretty determined to be it my first KS that I help to fund (the timing is also right - I have birthday in July :))

I saw the 3D-printed prototypes for some of the classics at Origins...and wanted them badly!

Based on the teaser pictures and what I saw at Origins, there could still be a whole lot of production prep work to do. I don't expect anything will ship before 2020. Don't get me wrong, I'm confident the project will succeed. I just don't see how it gets done and into backer hands before the end of the year. I'm also OK with that timeline, so it wouldn't deter me from backing. If CGL managed to beat that, I would be very surprised, and very impressed.

[SteveRestless]

I suppose I'll have to wait and see what the pledge structure will look like, but I want to toss this out there for consideration in preparing it.

I plan to support this in hopes that it promotes further use of kickstarter. But the thing is, I don't want inner sphere mechs. at all. I realize that the IS Command Lance is a stretch goal, but I hope there'll be an option to avoid receiving it, maybe get some duplicate clan mechs in it's place.

Otherwise, if there's no way to avoid it, I guess I'll have to find somebody else willing to trade clantech for those figures.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Otherwise, if there's no way to avoid it, I guess I'll have to find somebody else willing to trade clantech for those figures.

Trust me, that won't be hard.  Worst case, be a dirty scalper on ebay :D

[DarkSpade]

I doubt they'll set it up in such a way where you have to buy Inner Sphere mechs in order to buy clan mechs.  It's more likely we'll see something like the box set is $X but if they hit the first stretch goal you'll also get an IS lance with for your $X.  Maybe it's not the clan mechs you wanted, but you're not paying any more than you were before.  Sell them for a dollar and you'll still be making a profit.

Honestly, I'm expecting most of the stretch goals to be add-ons(such as the lance packs) rather than freebies for the core pledge while anything improving the core pledge being just that, improvements. Things like hard board instead of paper maps or maybe just more maps.

[glitterboy2098]

agreed, i suspect the stretch goal system will be "unlocks item you can buy" first and won't hit 'gets item free' until very high levels.

sadly i suspect that you won't have the option to buy specific mechs from the sets.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The way the announcement was worded, it sounded as if you'd be unlocking varying amounts of boxes as reward for different pledge levels, but you'd be able to select which boxes you'd be receiving based on the stretch goals that were accomplished.

In other words, you'd be pledging for 1, 2, or 15 boxes, and once the kickstarter was over and the number of stretch goals met was finalized, you'd get to choose which boxes you wanted out of those.

I could be wrong, but that was the way I interpreted it.

[Joewrightgm]

I feel like the best kickstarters I’ve seen run have maybe a handful of pledge tiers.  For a company of CGL’s size, I would say that would be the way to go, then handle add one in the pledge manager.

OH, and CHARGE SHIPPING AFTER CGL! I’ve seen too many Kickstarters go flat side-ways because shipping was under estimated because they wanted to give people a flat shipping fee.

[Sartris]

A handful of pledge tiers and not crazy stretch goals. We don’t need 1094 layers of options like the bones campaigns straight away

[Joewrightgm]

A handful of pledge tiers and not crazy stretch goals. We don’t need 1094 layers of options like the bones campaigns straight away

For example: a song of ice and fire had 1 pledge level.  Everyone got the same exclusives plus stretches, with options to buy additional unlocked add ons.

[Takiro]

Any details on this bad boy??

[Weirdo]

You have all the details everybody else does. In all likelihood there will be no more details until the kickstarter actively goes live.

[Takiro]

Drats!

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

This is going to be a long month.

[SteveRestless]

In other words, you'd be pledging for 1, 2, or 15 boxes, and once the kickstarter was over and the number of stretch goals met was finalized, you'd get to choose which boxes you wanted out of those.

I could be wrong, but that was the way I interpreted it.

Man, I hope this is how it works. That would be sweet.

Trust me, that won't be hard.  Worst case, be a dirty scalper on ebay :D

Far more merchant caste than I want to delve into.

[SCC]

If its already been discussed sorry if Im repeating.
If  I gave moneys for this Kickstarter...what do I get?

Exactly what you paid for. KickStarters have no proper fixed system for how much you donate, but they do have reward tiers, for this project presumably a copy of the boxed set will be one of them, at MSRP, but you can chose to pay then that because of add-ons.

I doubt they'll set it up in such a way where you have to buy Inner Sphere mechs in order to buy clan mechs.  It's more likely we'll see something like the box set is $X but if they hit the first stretch goal you'll also get an IS lance with for your $X.  Maybe it's not the clan mechs you wanted, but you're not paying any more than you were before.  Sell them for a dollar and you'll still be making a profit.

Honestly, I'm expecting most of the stretch goals to be add-ons(such as the lance packs) rather than freebies for the core pledge while anything improving the core pledge being just that, improvements. Things like hard board instead of paper maps or maybe just more maps.

First HELL NO, it is extremely unlikely that CGL will set it up this way. While stretch goals may expand the base product due to the way things work in BT this is far more likely to be custom dice (With the Clan logo), maybe two pairs instead of one, because I can't see them putting two sets of 'Mechs in the box. Now if an IS Lance Box is a stretch goal that's unlocked it will likely be an add-on for $Y*. Furthermore this is a CLAN Box Set so if anything you'd have to buy a unit of Clan 'Mechs to get IS ones.

* Technically things could be set up so that you could only pay $Y for your IS 'Mechs, but due to the way shipping works this is likely to be unattractive from both ends, so it's possible that spending $X to get the box set is a minimum for any physical goods.

[Colt Ward]

They have said before, they are not in the mini business- that license is with IWM.  They are able to do box sets b/c that is a different kettle.  You want singletons?  You will have to wait until they are released from IWM.