BattleTech: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion, Vol. 1

[Colt Ward]

Eh, I think you are blowing out of proportion (eh, punny?)

We have a top down view . . . the arms and everything else block the legs besides the feet.  You also cannot get a clear view of the torso in that, and while it may show a split on that torso, the legs could be attached the whole way up the torso with the arms attaching to that instead of the torso directly- like the War Dog original art like I mentioned.  The lasers are larger . . .

As far as the Mist Lynx?  It still harkens back to the original and bridges the look between 3050 and the MWDA Koshi std mech.

[sadlerbw]

My wallet is now prepared: Paid off all the Origins bills, and the GenCon hasn't sucked my dry yet. I'm as ready as I'm going to get. The money-pult is locked and loaded, just waiting for the order to fire.

[Scotty]

Mechs that lack waists pretty much universally look better with waists.  The Cauldron-Born is another good example.  It's especially bad with the "My hips are also my shoulders!" crew, which must have a hell of a time actually aiming anything mounted in the torso while moving.

[Empyrus]

We have a top down view . . . the arms and everything else block the legs besides the feet.  You also cannot get a clear view of the torso in that, and while it may show a split on that torso, the legs could be attached the whole way up the torso with the arms attaching to that instead of the torso directly- like the War Dog original art like I mentioned.  The lasers are larger . . .

The legs in the Nova are very visible. They're not connected to arms. See attached image, green shows where the leg was attached in the old version (overall the old version is a bit wider as a result), and red shows where the (left) hip is.

[Sartris]

Mechs that lack waists pretty much universally look better with waists.  The Cauldron-Born is another good example.  It's especially bad with the "My hips are also my shoulders!" crew, which must have a hell of a time actually aiming anything mounted in the torso while moving.

That fan art of the waisted yeoman is the hottest makeover of the 31st century

[Empyrus]

Mechs that lack waists pretty much universally look better with waists.  The Cauldron-Born is another good example.  It's especially bad with the "My hips are also my shoulders!" crew, which must have a hell of a time actually aiming anything mounted in the torso while moving.

I'll grant you the Cauldron-Born as an exception. Think it belongs to the class of 'Mechs that do need new art... but then again, it is not part of the original 16 and lacks the same styling as the originals.
(Its MWO version is pretty good but it stands a just bit too tall, naturally the waist adds some height but i wish it were very slightly less tall.)

That fan art of the waisted yeoman is the hottest makeover of the 31st century

The Yeoman cannot be saved! At least i believe it can't be, now i need to look for the fan art...

[Scotty]

If you ask me, the more defining feature of most Mechs that that lack waists (like the Nova) is not the lack of waist, it's the typically by-definition corresponding trait that their elbows are lower than their hips.  The Nova still has the squat, almost hunckbacked posture, which at least in my opinion is the trait it needs to share to be "right".

[Fear Factory]

It'll be like taking the overhead arms off the Fire Moth. Why take away defining traits?

[Empyrus]

If you ask me, the more defining feature of most Mechs that that lack waists (like the Nova) is not the lack of waist, it's the typically by-definition corresponding trait that their elbows are lower than their hips.  The Nova still has the squat, almost hunckbacked posture, which at least in my opinion is the trait it needs to share to be "right".

Dunno, low hanging arms aren't too uncommon. The Adder is similar in this (of course, it also lacks proper waist... but i figure it can be updated with a waist and retain its overall looks), as is the Kit Fox (again, easier to add waist without messing up the design). The Viper and Nova are very much defined by their arms and legs sharing, uh, hip-shoulder. Hipoulder?

EDIT MWIV added waist to the Adder and Kit Fox without drastically changing their overall profile.

[Scotty]

Hipshoulders are honestly the thing I hate,  but "no waist" also includes a number of Mechs that could really use one.  Chief among them the Marauder, and thank God for the one we got.

[Fear Factory]

The Nova's waist is now the same thing the Kit Fox has. I'll laugh if the Kit Fox is actually changed.

[Empyrus]

Chief among them the Marauder, and thank God for the one we got.

Uh, the Marauder's unseen image and Project Phoenix version both have waist. Maybe not very twisty one (i recall MWIV MekPak 3's Marauder having bad torso twist because it was based on the unseen), but waist nonetheless.

[Maingunnery]

I just realized what I would do to the Grendel mini.
- Apply an copy of the left-upperarm to the right arm.
- Change the head to bring it more in-line with the Gargoyle and Executioner.

[Scotty]

Uh, the Marauder's unseen image and Project Phoenix version both have waist. Maybe not very twisty one (i recall MWIV MekPak 3's Marauder having bad torso twist because it was based on the unseen), but waist nonetheless.

I have always (and still do, even after this) see two legs connecting to hip joints that but straight from the torso on the original model.  The Project Phoenix one I can sort of see, for some models, but for the rest I'd still call that no waist.

Note: not currently able to view a mini in person.  Most of what I meant applies primarily to the original and not the Phoenix version, in any case.  The Phoenix version has its own problems.

[Empyrus]

I have always (and still do, even after this) see two legs connecting to hip joints that but straight from the torso on the original model.  The Project Phoenix one I can sort of see, for some models, but for the rest I'd still call that no waist.

Sarna's pic of original TRO3050 Marauder is pretty illuminating:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:MAD-5D.png
Pretty weird waist to be sure, and perhaps not particularly effective one.

That said, the Marauder is a massive improvement. In retrospect, the original is kinda silly looking.
I've often thought that the Project Phoenix version looks kinda reasonable but it doesn't look like Marauder, but rather as if it were some other 'Mech. Fortunately the new one is awesome.

[PyreLight]

Wait until you people see the new design of Stormcrow. It's bulky as hell and looks a lot like the Nova. I don't like it but Anthony Scroggins think the design works.

I think people need to get used to Scroggins. Less sleekness, more bulkiness seems to be the mantra.

[Empyrus]

Wait until you see the new design of Stormcrow. It's bulky as hell and looks a lot like the Nova.

We've seen the Stormcrow already, it is in the first page, the Clan Command Star pic.

[Scotty]

Wait until you people see the new design of Stormcrow. It's bulky as hell and looks a lot like the Nova. I don't like it but Anthony Scroggins think the design works.

I think people need to get used to Scroggins. Less sleekness, more bulkiness seems to be the mantra.

It's less "more bulkiness" and more Mechs having curves that aren't round and edges that aren't literally right angles and points.  If you put a gun to my head and forced me to come up with a single concept that embodies the Clan redesigns, it'd be "late generation fighter jet" and honestly I'm here for it until that train runs out of stops.

[PyreLight]

We've seen the Stormcrow already, it is in the first page, the Clan Command Star pic.

Sorry I meant when you see it properly in terms of perspective. Its arms and hands are incredibly bulky and it looks a lot like the Nova.

It's less "more bulkiness" and more Mechs having curves that aren't round and edges that aren't literally right angles and points.  If you put a gun to my head and forced me to come up with a single concept that embodies the Clan redesigns, it'd be "late generation fighter jet" and honestly I'm here for it until that train runs out of stops.

I get what you're saying, but that's not what I'm talking about. With the Stormcrow it's literally much bigger hands and arms with less sleekness and it looks much more like the Nova.

[Empyrus]

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to come up with a single concept that embodies the Clan redesigns, it'd be "late generation fighter jet" and honestly I'm here for it until that train runs out of stops.

"Late generation jet fighter" brings stealth fighters to my mind, and those look very... plain. They do have rounded shapes that are somewhat complex but stealth fighters lack all sorts of greebling these new Clan 'Mechs have.
EDIT Have to say it is really hard to use a single concept for these. I get why one might use "late gen fighter".

Sorry I meant when you see it properly in terms of perspective. Its arms and hands are incredibly bulky and it looks a lot like the Nova.

That does not sound positive to me. The Stormcrow never looked terribly bulky, or even Nova-like (minus overall shape of the legs).
Looks okay in the Command Star pic :/

[Scotty]

It's not a prefect analogy.  The intent to get across was "sleek but not necessarily smooth" and "curved but not necessarily round".  Without the greebly bits and arbitrary panel lines on a number of old designs you could mistake then for balloons.

In the Stormcrow's specific example, if it beefs up to look the part I'm not complaining.

[Empyrus]

It's not a prefect analogy.  The intent to get across was "sleek but not necessarily smooth" and "curved but not necessarily round".  Without the greebly bits and arbitrary panel lines on a number of old designs you could mistake then for balloons.

I don't think so... the Star League bubble-balloon-potato designs (ie most of the TRO 3058) do that far more effectively already. Incidentally those belong to the "needs new art" category. Though i suppose extra greebling would improve their looks.

[SteelRaven]

Talk for yourself,

...umm, I am. Why I said 'some of us' and not 'you guys' (sorry I didn't add 'lol' so you would have know I wasn't being too serious.)

I'm I record stating it was criminal that Fasa didn't commission Steve Venture to design every clan mech from 3050 onward. I hated even the idea of a Mad Cat IV, the idea you can improve on perfection until CGL managed to polish it up for TRO: 3145 to be truly worth of it's heritage. In short, I freak'n love the 3050's omnis and that will never change. If this gets new kids to appreciate those same mechs the way I do, I'm all for it!

[Empyrus]

I'm I record stating it was criminal that Fasa didn't commission Steve Venture to design every clan mech from 3050 onward. I hated even the idea of a Mad Cat IV, the idea you can improve on perfection until CGL managed to polish it up for TRO: 3145 to be truly worth of it's heritage. In short, I freak'n love the 3050's omnis and that will never change. If this gets new kids to appreciate those same mechs the way I do, I'm all for it!

You love the stats or looks or both?
Just thinking that many later OmniMechs have much, much better configurations and/or base chassis. With new art, they'll be more noticed than they used to, me thinks. Like, take the Huntsman or Grendel, they look kinda terrible (art and mini both) but both are pretty good, their chassis and configs.

Were it not for their looks, i'd ignore many of the original 16. (And i don't even like all of them really, it is just they have that uniform style i appreciate enough to use them.)

[Reldn]

Those 'Mechs are looking incredible. Especially that Executioner!  :drool: Oh, my Wife and wallet are so going to kill me when this Kickstarter hits! *laughs*

[Bren]

Who got to write the novella?

[Wrangler]

Has it been stated how much this thing is?

[Empyrus]

Has it been stated how much this thing is?

The base box itself is at $50 backing tier. So retail price is probably around the same.
But this doesn't apparently include shipping.

[pheonixstorm]

6 more days until my CC dies from me trying to throw it at my screen. Sooo much new shiny!

[Greatclub]

I have a couple of metal Grendels (second hand from a lot), so I have some experience with them, and in mine opinion they are Meh in performance (compared to other Clan omnis) and have a forgettable appearance, like the last kid that gets chosen in gym class. Poor Mech, it even gets bullied by Clan Light Mechs.....

Not my experience with them. They have problems facing off against mechs in their mobility tier, and can have trouble earning their points back, but those are hardly unique problems for mechs in this box. But if you want a flanker that the enemy will have a heck of a time killing and with enough firepower it can't be ignored? hard to do better. In almost all ways it compares favourably with the shadow cat. It does better the bigger playing area it has access to, like a lot of fast, longer-range mechs.

Solid alternate configs. I'd like more pulse lasers on a natural jumper like this, but it is entirely understandable why it didn't get them.

[Edit] - My glitch is with the Adder. It pays full BPV for a second PPC it can occasionally use, at a cost for your next turn's mobility (Great cost if you ran)

Not a beginner mech. In fact, it's on a par with the worst of the succession wars for the skill it requires.