Discussion Sidequest: LAMs

[BrianDavion]

• Side note, this is not a sign that LAMs are on the way. 

**Mod Notice**
The title of this thread has been modified, which is why this post includes an edit tag.

[Scotty]

I'm glad they're not.

[BrianDavion]

I'd be fine with plastic LAMs, but mostly cause I wanna paint a P hawk LAM in crescant hawk colours

[Sartris]

yes

[Cyc]

unrelated to LAM thread - blanking

[DaevaHuG0]

Well the urbanmech lam box looks fun, wonder it it will be in stock before the Kickstarter arrives.

[Highlighter]

How does one go about updating credit card details again? Rechecking Kickstarter made me realise card used to pay initial pledge expired earlier this year and clearly I'd love to avoid complicating the shipping charge when they finally get around to it.

You’ll get a notice when it’s ready to ship and you’ll get a chance to finalize payment methods when you pay for shipping.

[klarg1]

So, a few points on the Urbie LAM.

• The Urbie salvage box SOLD like crazy. So did the lance pack. So did the company pack. Let’s not forget the plushie. You don’t have to like it. But any money towards BattleTech means more money toward things we do want.

This one is the big point for me. Regardless of what this pack is (or is not): If it sells well it funds other stuff in the future. More sales makes more Battletech.

[ActionButler]

I'm glad they're not.

+1

I’m strangely okay with the Urbie LAM since it is such an unserious and oddball product, but I will be delighted if we ever decide to consign real LAMs to the dustbin of history.

[Talvin]

The next Pope of New Avalon, Pope Urban X, will have a custom UrbanMech LAM with a little Pope hat, named the "LAM of God", in which he will ascend to Heaven.

[spotH3D]

I'm heartened by Adrian's post that it will not become a normal unit.  My biggest fear was they were going to clumsily retcon this thing into existance so  it could show up on the Clan Invasion or early era IS General/Merc General MUL.  All in service to a silly meme.

Beyond that, it sticks because I know CGL doesn't have infinite throughput, so as far as I'm concerned, this does actively push back other product that could of sold and been useful on the table.

Melee monster lance - Beserker, Neaderthal, Ti-Tsang, insert Kuritan sword mech here.

[I am Belch II]

Some of the new force packs should be at Adepticon.
I just hope they are not sold out on Wed night before the con.

[Sartris]

My biggest fear was they were going to clumsily retcon this thing into existance so  it could show up on the Clan Invasion or early era IS General/Merc General MUL. 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Some of the new force packs should be at Adepticon.
I just hope they are not sold out on Wed night before the con.

My understanding is that they're not selling anything from the Kickstarter at the con.

[H.B.M.C.]

... but I will be delighted if we ever decide to consign real LAMs to the dustbin of history.

But why? They're such a minor part of the game's history that you basically never have to engage with them in any way, so why rob the people who do like them of that bit of fun? 

That doesn't make sense to me.

BYE

[ActionButler]

But why? They're such a minor part of the game's history that you basically never have to engage with them in any way, so why rob the people who do like them of that bit of fun? 

That doesn't make sense to me.

BYE

At no point did I suggest that CGL should rob anyone of anything. If they announce tomorrow that every mech in the game is now a LAM, I will be very happy for the people who are happy. I will also be very confused, but I will be happy for our LAM-loving bretheren.

What I said was that I would be happy if they were struck from the game. Not that they should be struck from the game. Not that the franchise would be better off if they were struck from the game. Not that people are just a bunch of whiners for not wanting them to be struck from the game. Just that I would like to see them struck from the game. I don't like LAMs because they are inherently silly and run counter to the idea of Battletech being a "real" robot game.

I am not now, nor do I have any intention of, advocating on behalf of robbing anyone of any joys in life.

[Adrian Gideon]

Beautifully said.

[Doc Swift]

Yeah, robbing people of the joys of life is my job as Enemy of Fun.

[LAMFAN]

• Side note, this is not a sign that LAMs are on the way. There was never a “Phoenix Hawk vs. Urbie” LAM question.

They unironically should be on the way. Seriously, rub HG's face in it with CGL official LAM models.

+1

I’m strangely okay with the Urbie LAM since it is such an unserious and oddball product, but I will be delighted if we ever decide to consign real LAMs to the dustbin of history.

At no point did I suggest that CGL should rob anyone of anything. If they announce tomorrow that every mech in the game is now a LAM, I will be very happy for the people who are happy. I will also be very confused, but I will be happy for our LAM-loving bretheren.

What I said was that I would be happy if they were struck from the game. Not that they should be struck from the game. Not that the franchise would be better off if they were struck from the game. Not that people are just a bunch of whiners for not wanting them to be struck from the game. Just that I would like to see them struck from the game. I don't like LAMs because they are inherently silly and run counter to the idea of Battletech being a "real" robot game.

I am not now, nor do I have any intention of, advocating on behalf of robbing anyone of any joys in life.

They don't run counter to anything in Battletech. Hell, we have WiGE vehicles that are used even though in real life they're not realistically used anymore. Same with Hovercrafts. They were there since its inception, and would have stayed more relevant if not for HG's timely bitchfit (which they can't lean on anymore, thankfully).

You may enjoy your wrong opinion, but unironically they should be brought back in some capacity as some kind of revisitation to old concepts using better technology (it will at least make ilClan era interesting, personally), or at least the rules tweaked to not be so janky and busted.

[glitterboy2098]

They unironically should be on the way. Seriously, rub HG's face in it with CGL official LAM models.

We'd need new art for the 'Mk2' versions anyway, and we've got fluff from the Mk1 versions that the Mk2's were designed to have their mech modes more closely match the standard wasp, stinger, and P-hawk. All of which now have updated GW-immune art to work from.

While I'd prefer plastic sets for them, I'd settle for just new art, some IWM minis, and updated TRO entries for the existing variants. Including some fluff about the origin of the existing variants. (Like that marik lrm5 using wasp-lam)

No need to ressurect them again, just give us updated info on the starleague, succession war, and jihad era use and versions.

[LAMFAN]

We'd need new art for the 'Mk2' versions anyway, and we've got fluff from the Mk1 versions that the Mk2's were designed to have their mech modes more closely match the standard wasp, stinger, and P-hawk. All of which now have updated GW-immune art to work from.

While I'd prefer plastic sets for them, I'd settle for just new art, some IWM minis, and updated TRO entries for the existing variants. Including some fluff about the origin of the existing variants. (Like that marik lrm5 using wasp-lam)

No need to ressurect them again, just give us updated info on the starleague, succession war, and jihad era use and versions.

First off, the Mk1 versions (original) more directly resemble the standards, the mk2 (post-HG) don't. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by mk1 and mk2?

In the end, I would be happy with new art and IWM minis, and updated TRO with originals and variants.

Still disagree on the last point though, unless they actually fix the rules a little so its less janky to use. They should absolutely be resurrected. Maybe even as a giant middle finger to the clans for trying to send them to extinction.

[ActionButler]

They unironically should be on the way. Seriously, rub HG's face in it with CGL official LAM models.

They don't run counter to anything in Battletech. Hell, we have WiGE vehicles that are used even though in real life they're not realistically used anymore. Same with Hovercrafts. They were there since its inception, and would have stayed more relevant if not for HG's timely bitchfit (which they can't lean on anymore, thankfully).

You may enjoy your wrong opinion, but unironically they should be brought back in some capacity as some kind of revisitation to old concepts using better technology (it will at least make ilClan era interesting, personally), or at least the rules tweaked to not be so janky and busted.

I’m not going to engage with all of… *that*… but I will say that I cannot foresee a change in my opinion if the only reasons you can give me for including LAMs in the modern game are because it would upset HG and/or because we had them before.[/list]

[mechasaurus]

Still disagree on the last point though, unless they actually fix the rules a little so its less janky to use. They should absolutely be resurrected. Maybe even as a giant middle finger to the clans for trying to send them to extinction.

Kill 2 birds with one stone!

Make their use not only less janky, but actually useful... then work it into the story as a middle finger to the ilClan.  Effective LAMs are part our response to your 'so-called' Star League.  Come get some!

[Sartris]

since at least the near future of LAMs has been laid out definitively by the line developer, this seems like an improper space to continue to debate their merits

[LAMFAN]

I’m not going to engage with all of… *that*… but I will say that I cannot foresee a change in my opinion if the only reasons you can give me for including LAMs in the modern game are because it would upset HG and/or because we had them before.[/list]

That's not the only reasons though, those are just the most fun reasons. That and the fact that they don't *fit* in Battletech is disproven by the existence of everything else in Battletech, ALONG with its historical existence as a technology developed early enough to just start proliferation, but late enough that the Succession Wars crippled any chance they had for their technology to be advanced or developed.

They'd still be specialized units that would be more expensive to make, but critical to specific missions where they shine.

Kill 2 birds with one stone!

Make their use not only less janky, but actually useful... then work it into the story as a middle finger to the ilClan.  Effective LAMs are part our response to your 'so-called' Star League.  Come get some!

I like the way you think mechasaurus, I wholely agree with this concept!

since at least the near future of LAMs has been laid out definitively by the line developer, this seems like an improper space to continue to debate their merits

Seems appropriate still, since even if not short term, my goals to get a resurgence of them is ultimately a long-term goal, and arguing their merits (both grounded AND meme-y) where he can see them in the tangentially related topic at least gets the idea into his head.

[glitterboy2098]

First off, the Mk1 versions (original) more directly resemble the standards, the mk2 (post-HG) don't. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by mk1 and mk2?

In the end, I would be happy with new art and IWM minis, and updated TRO with originals and variants.

Still disagree on the last point though, unless they actually fix the rules a little so its less janky to use. They should absolutely be resurrected. Maybe even as a giant middle finger to the clans for trying to send them to extinction.

I'll use the wasp lam as an example
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wasp_LAM

The 'mk1' is the WSP-100 and variants, with art, printed in TRO3085 and RS3085U.
These are the early models, used primarily by hegemony units in the sldf. The fluff for these models (as well as the stinger lam and p-hawk lam from the same source) states that due to the distinctive appearance of these LAMs enemies would ID them easily, thus drawing excess fire, and that they would get a visual redesign before versions for the wider sldf were made, the WSP-105 in this case.
Since the preceeding version was labelled as 'Mk1', these later models often get called 'mk2' by lam fans, as a way of identifying them.


The art for the WSP-100 Wasp LAM Mk_I.


We do not have updated art for the WSP-105 and the other old TRO3025 LAM versions. Though by the fluff for the Mk1 versions, the WSP-105 should have a mech mode similar in general looks as the standard wasp:

[LAMFAN]

I'll use the wasp lam as an example
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wasp_LAM

The 'mk1' is the WSP-100 and variants, with art, printed in TRO3085 and RS3085U.
These are the early models, used primarily by hegemony units in the sldf. The fluff for these models (as well as the stinger lam and p-hawk lam from the same source) states that due to the distinctive appearance of these LAMs saw them drawing excess fire, and that they would get a visual redesign before versions for the wider sldf were made, the WSP-105 in this case.
Since the preceeding version was labelled as 'Mk1', these later models often get called 'mk2' by lam fans, as a way of identifying them.


The art for the WSP-100 Wasp LAM Mk_I.


We do not have updated art for the WSP-105 and the other old TRO3036 LAM versions. Though by the fluff for the Mk1 versions, the WSP-105 should have a mech mode similar in general looks as the standard wasp:

Oh, thank you for clarifying! Then yes, we should absolutely get updated mk2 models/artwork of LAMs to match current Stinger/Wasp/PHawks.

[mechasaurus]

since at least the near future of LAMs has been laid out definitively by the line developer, this seems like an improper space to continue to debate their merits

I'd say, quite the contrary!  The whole aerospace thing is in a state of flux (see that thread)... for now.

However, if CGL is going to stick with the ilClan era for years of both story and product development, it could very reasonably be part of a response to the 3rd Star League (as I mentioned, or maybe as part of it).  Who knows?  There are many ways the story and rules could go from this point!

[Adrian Gideon]

Mods, can we get the LAM discussion off into its own thread? I mean, the Urbie LAM was one thing (and it’s not even part of the Merecnaries KS), but it looks like we’re gonna get into a whole LAM thing and it doesn’t belong here. Thanks.

[mechasaurus]

Mods, can we get the LAM discussion off into its own thread? I mean, the Urbie LAM was one thing (and it’s not even part of the Merecnaries KS), but it looks like we’re gonna get into a whole LAM thing and it doesn’t belong here. Thanks.

No, I'm done, then.  But if we're talking about 3SL, anyway, was my point.