Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)

[RifleMech]

Funny, but still just another strike against them.

There's another.

Yep :thumbsup:

Physical weapons are of questionable value even in the best of times, anyway. I'm not at all averse to leaving them out because the rules don't generally support physical weapon attacks by non-Mechs except in the case of some industrial gear and ramming.

That's cool.

Thanks to BT's "bulkytech" aesthetic, ProtoMechs needed the Clans to come along and invent them; otherwise, the jump went from power armor/light batter armor to 'Mechs (implying that Inner Sphere/Star League tech just can't bridge the gap effectively in between). I could stretch for battle armor, since the SL had power suits and exoskeletons have always been around for the setting, but Protos in Syberia? Nerp.

:) That's cool.

Yeah; the post-Devastator combiners tended to use a more interchangable technology. The most recent combiner in my collection that I can completely build has Bruticus's torso and limbs that are mostly Protectobots. Pretty sure they'd have an identity crisis. (Another part of the TF lore that's always fun is how the minds fuse in combined modes; I'd not want to codify those rules either, so... Another strike against combiners!)

 ;D

Thank Cat we won't be touching that, then!

 :))

If built as a robotic, it should be independent; if built as a remote-controlled drone, it is controlled by the parent unit. If this is Syberia, the preference is to have ALL drones use robotic control systems, so they can behave individually and be less susceptible to ECM (or, in the case of those Syberians not operating inside a decent magnetosphere, sunspot activity).

That's cool.  :thumbsup:

What about them?

They were built using support vehicle rules. I'm guessing they'd be more ancient than those built using combat vehicle rules.

Your table, your rules. Were it me, I'd be making do without.

 :thumbsup:

I know *I* wouldn't stand a chance...

Most probably wouldn't.

I can't recall exactly, but I think most of that can be mitigated with better armor and enviro sealing. But if one were to go with a story that establishes them as IndyMech-based, they would at least have a good reason for that gimmick.

That's cool.

It was fun. They killed off a couple characters in rather incidental ways, gave folks a reason to buy more toys, and never once explained to us what the Vok were up to, while setting the stage for Ravage to show up.

That's cool. Who are the Volk?

BA-size would justify operating in the same hex, but why make them combine? OOO! The central unit is a 'Mech, but its combiner team is all battle armor, and it uses Mechanized BA rules when they combine. The central unit remains in control, and gains the benefits of the team's armor as extra protection from attacks, plus maybe whatever electronic suites they have that the central unit lacks! Minimal new rules, and the SAME questionable behavior, but in this case, who'd care? It wouldn't be the first time someone tried to use their own battlesuited troops to get around their armor maximums.

...Or, as I suggested above, you could just give them some special force rules that give the team a boost when all of them are present on the field, to reflect their morale and enhanced coordination, and let them move anywhere they like so they can do fun things like triangulate their fire.

- Herb

 :thumbsup: Mechanized BA sounds workable.  :)

[RifleMech]

The larger factories making Automechs are the ones making the 50-ton combiners.  A SuperHeavy Bay for assembling/testing the 300-ton combiner would be useful and the nice part is that since the SuperHeavy bay is just the final step the rest of the factory costs the same as a non-combiner factory.  A factory making a SuperHeavy would be more expensive than a faster factory that can make combiner Veemechs.

So the following setups:

• Veemech Repair Bay - standard Mech Repair bay, used to repair Veemechs and LAMs
• Standard VeeMech factory - does not produce Combiners (your 'large' factory)
• Combiner Factory/testbed - as Standard Veemech factory, but includes a SuperHeavy bay for assembly/testing/repairs
• Combiner Factory - as Standard Veemech factory, but produces combiner Veemechs.  Can repair Combiners, but only if they are separated
• SuperHeavy Bay - can repair a fused combiner, or a SuperHeavy Veemech
• SuperHeavy Factory - produces SuperHeavy Veemechs (i.e. Fortress Maximus), but is more expensive per ton of output than a Combiner Factory/testbed

So Devastator as a combiner was the prototype, and it had delays in processing because it would poll its 6 components before making every decision.  Since there were 6 units, there could be tie votes, meaning only the most obvious choices were taken (initiative penalties, and randomly selects the current target each turn unless commanded by a 'superior').

The next generation combiners were manufactured with a linkage system and control system that worked properly, and espionage on both sides would allow the plans for that linkage system to get copied (aka why the Combiner toys can link with each other).  The data channels would not be compatible though, so no taking the arms of Bruticus and attaching them to Scattershot to make a more aggressive Computron.

SuperHeavies (like Fortress Maximus) are a rare resource because they can only be built in specialized factories and need SuperHeavy repair centers in case of damage (or they only get fixed via very slow field repairs)

I suppose that'd work with six 50 ton mechs but what about five 60 ton mechs? Or some other combination of tonnages that add up to 200?


I have wondered about combining the old optional rules for reduced crit space on mechs (The lighter the class the fewer crits there are.) and Protomech weights to make XXL Mechs 2-9 tons. I never got around to doing it though but I wonder if it'd work for AutoMechs in that weight class.

[HABeas2]

They were built using support vehicle rules. I'm guessing they'd be more ancient than those built using combat vehicle rules.

Support vehicle rules CAN reflect more primitive units, but they can also just represent commercial-grade, non-military production. The Tech rating isn't just about age; your family car isn't a main battle tank, after all.

That's cool. Who are the Volk?

In the Beast Wars part of the G1 continuity (Beast Wars and Beast Machines are generally considered part of G1 because of the crossover with classic cartoon elements like the wrecked Ark, G1 characters, and Ravage), the Vok were an alien species that were using Earth as a "project" and saw the Transformers' arrival there as a contamination bad enough to abandon the whole thing and sterilize the planet. I don't think it's ever explained what they were about and other continuities have them elsewhere, doing other things.

The VOLK are something else entirely, and unrelated to this conversation (at present).

I suppose that'd work with six 50 ton mechs but what about five 60 ton mechs? Or some other combination of tonnages that add up to 200?

I have wondered about combining the old optional rules for reduced crit space on mechs (The lighter the class the fewer crits there are.) and Protomech weights to make XXL Mechs 2-9 tons. I never got around to doing it though but I wonder if it'd work for AutoMechs in that weight class.

Well, I did say that it's your story and game table. I'm gonna try and stop nay-saying your ideas on the grounds of how I see my own Syberian head-canon.

- Herb

[glitterboy2098]

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Vok

the show never really explained who or what they were. they basically existed to be the source of McGuffins the factions would fight over and generally do the whole "mysterious powerful beings" routine. i'm pretty sure that the main reason they existed was so that the show's storylines could have more variety, given the small casts and the fact that prehistoric earth didn't have a local population to interact with.

[idea weenie]

I suppose that'd work with six 50 ton mechs but what about five 60 ton mechs? Or some other combination of tonnages that add up to 200?

Anything 100 tons or less I am assuming can be built in a regular Veemech factory.  The difficulty is in setting up the initial combination capability, so there would be testing done in a SuperHeavy bay, while the attached Veemech factory is used to produce (and re-re-re-refit) the 6 variants needed.  So you might have a 6-Mech setup that is 20 tons each to create a 120-ton combiner.  Or you might have an 60-ton central Mech that has four 35-ton Mechs serving as its limbs for a 200-ton combiner Mech.

The key is the proper linkage system, so the Veemechs can support each other, communicate, etc.  Since each of the combiner mechs will need 3 forms (vehicle, Mech, and combiner component), their transformation systems will be larger than a standard Veemech that only has two forms (vehicle & Mech).

Or go with Herb's idea that combiners use a form of communications that is almost hard-wired into a specific group, giving them various benefits.  So instead of a single large combiner, you have 5-6 Mechs that work together REALLY well.  Unfortunately if a member of the group gets destroyed, the benefit is lost until a replacement comes from the factory and the remaining members can synchronize with the new member.

[RifleMech]

Support vehicle rules CAN reflect more primitive units, but they can also just represent commercial-grade, non-military production. The Tech rating isn't just about age; your family car isn't a main battle tank, after all.

Ancient or civilian. That's cool.   :thumbsup:

In the Beast Wars part of the G1 continuity (Beast Wars and Beast Machines are generally considered part of G1 because of the crossover with classic cartoon elements like the wrecked Ark, G1 characters, and Ravage), the Vok were an alien species that were using Earth as a "project" and saw the Transformers' arrival there as a contamination bad enough to abandon the whole thing and sterilize the planet. I don't think it's ever explained what they were about and other continuities have them elsewhere, doing other things.

The VOLK are something else entirely, and unrelated to this conversation (at present).

Thanks. I vaguely remember them. It's been ages since I watched Beast Wars.

Well, I did say that it's your story and game table. I'm gonna try and stop nay-saying your ideas on the grounds of how I see my own Syberian head-canon.

- Herb

That's cool. Although, I'd still like to know more about your Syberian head-canon. I was also wondering about blending those rules in general as IS Protos. Not just Syberian Drones.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Vok

the show never really explained who or what they were. they basically existed to be the source of McGuffins the factions would fight over and generally do the whole "mysterious powerful beings" routine. i'm pretty sure that the main reason they existed was so that the show's storylines could have more variety, given the small casts and the fact that prehistoric earth didn't have a local population to interact with.

Cool. Thanks.  :thumbsup:

Anything 100 tons or less I am assuming can be built in a regular Veemech factory.  The difficulty is in setting up the initial combination capability, so there would be testing done in a SuperHeavy bay, while the attached Veemech factory is used to produce (and re-re-re-refit) the 6 variants needed.  So you might have a 6-Mech setup that is 20 tons each to create a 120-ton combiner.  Or you might have an 60-ton central Mech that has four 35-ton Mechs serving as its limbs for a 200-ton combiner Mech.

The key is the proper linkage system, so the Veemechs can support each other, communicate, etc.  Since each of the combiner mechs will need 3 forms (vehicle, Mech, and combiner component), their transformation systems will be larger than a standard Veemech that only has two forms (vehicle & Mech).

Or go with Herb's idea that combiners use a form of communications that is almost hard-wired into a specific group, giving them various benefits.  So instead of a single large combiner, you have 5-6 Mechs that work together REALLY well.  Unfortunately if a member of the group gets destroyed, the benefit is lost until a replacement comes from the factory and the remaining members can synchronize with the new member.

I think Herb's idea might work better. I think there'd still be a lot of problems for the drones when they try to connect. That said, one of them might have a command console (second AI) that's dormant until combined when it activates to control the others.

[Luciora]

I'm calling Mirage done.  Leaving the right arm alone and not going to worry about a head.  Vehicle mode is essentially done, may add the second turret for looks and to represent the weapons.

[Luciora]

And vehicle mode.

[RifleMech]

Way cool!  :thumbsup: :beer:

[Daryk]

Nice work!  :thumbsup:

[HABeas2]

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Vok

the show never really explained who or what they were. they basically existed to be the source of McGuffins the factions would fight over and generally do the whole "mysterious powerful beings" routine. i'm pretty sure that the main reason they existed was so that the show's storylines could have more variety, given the small casts and the fact that prehistoric earth didn't have a local population to interact with.

Well, they eventually did start interacting with the proto-humans after Dinobot's death, but, well, you can only get so much dialog from THAT....

Or go with Herb's idea that combiners use a form of communications that is almost hard-wired into a specific group, giving them various benefits.  So instead of a single large combiner, you have 5-6 Mechs that work together REALLY well.  Unfortunately if a member of the group gets destroyed, the benefit is lost until a replacement comes from the factory and the remaining members can synchronize with the new member.

I was imagining it as less a communications system and more of a kind of innate harmony of programing; basically, they're built to work as a team and all their tactics rely on coordination with their teammates. It would seem almost telepathic, but actually requires no true communication between units that could be intercepted and/or scrambled.

That's cool. Although, I'd still like to know more about your Syberian head-canon. I was also wondering about blending those rules in general as IS Protos. Not just Syberian Drones.

The closest the IS was coming to ProtoMechs was stealing Clan-made machines and using hacked-up pilots and implants to approximate the Clans' EI-enhanced fighter phenotypes. I could justify an eventual drone tech for it, but not without a Clan tech base, which we've yet to see anywhere in the CNAZ.

That said, this conversation has veered away from what IS likely in the realm of Syberian tech and into how to add more to it that's not. I'm just acknowledging that so I don't pop in repeatedly saying "they can't do that," which tends to ruin everyone's speculative fun. GB's storyline, after all, is not strictly in line with how I envisioned everything, but I don't want to rain on his parade or anyone else's.

I think Herb's idea might work better. I think there'd still be a lot of problems for the drones when they try to connect. That said, one of them might have a command console (second AI) that's dormant until combined when it activates to control the others.

Eh, again, you don't need a command console if the AIs are designed to think independently but have built-in coordination as part of their programming. They would just function like a well-oiled machine until a part breaks down, then fall to "mediocre" performance. If instead you NEED to have a combiner force, though.... that's a bridge to far for me. The closest I can get there is the mechanized drone BA squad/single Mech angle, and that's almost a war crime.

- Herb

[Luciora]

I might be getting better at this.

[RifleMech]

The closest the IS was coming to ProtoMechs was stealing Clan-made machines and using hacked-up pilots and implants to approximate the Clans' EI-enhanced fighter phenotypes. I could justify an eventual drone tech for it, but not without a Clan tech base, which we've yet to see anywhere in the CNAZ.

I was thinking something more IS based using more conventional controls and fractional accounting. Something like the Sloth. Only scaled up. Weapons would be IS based, of course.

That said, this conversation has veered away from what IS likely in the realm of Syberian tech and into how to add more to it that's not. I'm just acknowledging that so I don't pop in repeatedly saying "they can't do that," which tends to ruin everyone's speculative fun. GB's storyline, after all, is not strictly in line with how I envisioned everything, but I don't want to rain on his parade or anyone else's.

That's cool and totally understandable. I think it is nice knowing where canon is or could be though. I don't think knowing that would ruin anyone's fun. I think knowing where the line for canon is, is a good thing. And if we're speculating, is some modern equipment, even Clan, available to drones, if there's a reference to something similar used by the SLDF or older? Like Chemical Lasers (old age of war weapon), Reflective Armor (fluff for an ASF in TRO:2750 mentions it), Cruise Missiles based on an old Earth weapon) etc...  Would Tank Cannons be among them as old Earth Weapons?

Eh, again, you don't need a command console if the AIs are designed to think independently but have built-in coordination as part of their programming. They would just function like a well-oiled machine until a part breaks down, then fall to "mediocre" performance. If instead you NEED to have a combiner force, though.... that's a bridge to far for me. The closest I can get there is the mechanized drone BA squad/single Mech angle, and that's almost a war crime.

- Herb

Probably not. I was thinking of the Combiner's personality though. It is different from the smaller bots. Not that I need one. I'm content at having Superheavies that look like they were combined but aren't. The closest I'd go is Mechanized Drones and gun/equipment mechs and the latter is a maybe. But if others want them, that's cool with me.  :thumbsup: Thinking about fluff tech has me wondering about C3 though. There are mentions in fluff about C3 like abilities. Just not so sophisticated. Maybe it could be a quirk without TAG or something?

I might be getting better at this.

Better or not, it's really good. :thumbsup:

[Giovanni Blasini]

I might be getting better at this.

OK, that's awesome.

[HABeas2]

I'm calling Mirage done.  Leaving the right arm alone and not going to worry about a head.  Vehicle mode is essentially done, may add the second turret for looks and to represent the weapons.

Hmmm. You know, it may not be cartoon/toy-accurate, but making the Assassin's head resemble the canopy of the Zephyros vehicle mode could work just fine.

I was thinking something more IS based using more conventional controls and fractional accounting. Something like the Sloth. Only scaled up. Weapons would be IS based, of course.

In-universe, the reason the IS doesn't have ProtoMechs is because of a combination of Clan-level materials engineering (which makes structure and armor battlefield-effective) and the need to deal with power/weight/balance issues. The fusion plants are in range of both tech bases, but to get around gyros, the Clans relied on EI neutral implants and a phenotype that took generations to develop. The Inner Sphere can match that EI/pilot tech with VDNI and multi-amputee warriors, but getting the same strength of structure and armor without the kind of excess bulk that would make their ProtoMechs more 'Mech-sized would likely be an issue. Even then, neither tech bases have come up with a drone system equivalent---but then again, canonically speaking, neither have they done so with battle armor.

And yet, I'm able to see BA versions of drone and robotics as easily produced. So... If I *had* to introduce a robotic/drone unit in the ProtoMech/UH ProtoMech tonnage ranges (circa 2-15 tons), it would likely use a slightly different control system mass (say 20%, with a minimum (*checks some notes*) 700kg control system mass (equal to the internal chassis weight of a Clan-made assault battlesuit, to account for an IS-based design with additional robotic/drone controls). Then an internal structure weight of 15% (as opposed to the 10% of Clan ProtoMech IS weights, to deal with the tech variance). Then an armor weight of, um, (*checks more notes*) 60 kg per armor point (a rounded average of the weight for Support Vehicle BAR 10 armor between Tech ratings D and E). After that, weapons loads would have to use BA-scale Inner Sphere weapons with SL-era equivalences (if we're just sticking to Syberia), or Inner Sphere-scaled BA weapons of any available type to the era of play.

I then would not allow them to do some things Clan Protos can do, such as using any alternate MP systems beyond jumping and ground, or making use of mechanized ProtoMech capabilities some units can do. Stuff like that. (Basically similar capability limits to those Inner Sphere BA have when compared to their Clan versions, to account for refinements yet to be realized.)

That's cool and totally understandable. I think it is nice knowing where canon is or could be though. I don't think knowing that would ruin anyone's fun. I think knowing where the line for canon is, is a good thing. And if we're speculating, is some modern equipment, even Clan, available to drones, if there's a reference to something similar used by the SLDF or older? Like Chemical Lasers (old age of war weapon), Reflective Armor (fluff for an ASF in TRO:2750 mentions it), Cruise Missiles based on an old Earth weapon) etc...  Would Tank Cannons be among them as old Earth Weapons?

The rule of thumb I gave for the settlers of Syberia were Star League era. At the time I envisioned their arrival in the CNAZ, the Caspar tech was, at best, in a prototype state of development, and a lot of what would become known as the pinnacle of First Star League tech was at least theoretically attainable. The Syberia settlers perfected their own versions of all that tech to what would be First Star League standards, then kind of went overboard on the convertible 'Mechs concept before they started shooting at each other, then telling their drones to do the same, then losing control over the situation entirely and getting themselves killed off for all of that cleverness. The tech would have stopped evolving there, but anything UP to that level of achievement could have been in play, including less advanced gear used for lower-priority/cost-saving/resource-saving work. Going all the way back to 20th century stuff, though, might be an overstep, since anything pre-2300 was pretty much obsolete against the most common electronics, targeting, and armor technologies of the Age of War and later.
[/quote]

- Herb

[Luciora]

For Mirage, I think it'll come down to how well the paint job will sell it.  The Assassin has alot of metal to remove from the chest and head to match the G1 look and the Zephros already pretty much has the canopy of the Assaasin, if painted correctly, is how I saw it.

What i should have done was elongate the Zephyros nose to match the Assassin chest peice, perhaps.

[HABeas2]

For Mirage, I think it'll come down to how well the paint job will sell it.  The Assassin has alot of metal to remove from the chest and head to match the G1 look and the Zephros already pretty much has the canopy of the Assaasin, if painted correctly, is how I saw it.

What i should have done was elongate the Zephyros nose to match the Assassin chest peice, perhaps.

I think you'll be fine either way. :)

- Herb

[Luciora]

Also, minor production variant perhaps  ::)

[RifleMech]

In-universe, the reason the IS doesn't have ProtoMechs is because of a combination of Clan-level materials engineering (which makes structure and armor battlefield-effective) and the need to deal with power/weight/balance issues. The fusion plants are in range of both tech bases, but to get around gyros, the Clans relied on EI neutral implants and a phenotype that took generations to develop. The Inner Sphere can match that EI/pilot tech with VDNI and multi-amputee warriors, but getting the same strength of structure and armor without the kind of excess bulk that would make their ProtoMechs more 'Mech-sized would likely be an issue. Even then, neither tech bases have come up with a drone system equivalent---but then again, canonically speaking, neither have they done so with battle armor.

And yet, I'm able to see BA versions of drone and robotics as easily produced. So... If I *had* to introduce a robotic/drone unit in the ProtoMech/UH ProtoMech tonnage ranges (circa 2-15 tons), it would likely use a slightly different control system mass (say 20%, with a minimum (*checks some notes*) 700kg control system mass (equal to the internal chassis weight of a Clan-made assault battlesuit, to account for an IS-based design with additional robotic/drone controls). Then an internal structure weight of 15% (as opposed to the 10% of Clan ProtoMech IS weights, to deal with the tech variance). Then an armor weight of, um, (*checks more notes*) 60 kg per armor point (a rounded average of the weight for Support Vehicle BAR 10 armor between Tech ratings D and E). After that, weapons loads would have to use BA-scale Inner Sphere weapons with SL-era equivalences (if we're just sticking to Syberia), or Inner Sphere-scaled BA weapons of any available type to the era of play.

I then would not allow them to do some things Clan Protos can do, such as using any alternate MP systems beyond jumping and ground, or making use of mechanized ProtoMech capabilities some units can do. Stuff like that. (Basically similar capability limits to those Inner Sphere BA have when compared to their Clan versions, to account for refinements yet to be realized.)

That sounds cool.  :thumbsup:

TM does talk about using more conventional controls like that of the Sloth. So I was thinking conventional might be possible, if heavier. Since they'd be built more along Mech lines, I was thinking IS versions would only be 2-9 tons. At 10 tons they're XL Mechs. I was also thinking 10% but after a closer look 15% for IS works as there's more locations. I'd also use the Critical Slots Table on pg 63 in MaxTech. That would have more internal space but they'd also be bulkier than Clan Protos. They wouldn't get the near misses that Protos enjoy. A hit is a hit.

I was thinking .5 tons for the cockpit and .5 tons for the XL Gyro. That'd make them more expensive. Engine Rating would be based on Walking Speed, so they'd be slower than Clan Protos. I'd of gone with 63 kg per armor point since they're using IS tech. I'd allow other armor and IS types if they have the tonnage and space for them. Any MP help I think I'd add an extra percentage point to make it heavier. So Clan Myomer booster weighs 2.5% and the IS version would weigh 3.5% and so on.

For weapons and other equipment, I'd definitely allow BA and even regular Infantry items to be used. Sybertonians would only have IS versions though. The IS could use Clan tech if they could obtain and afford it but they'd already be very expensive and fragile so they wouldn't be big sellers.

Here's a 5 ton version
IS                            750
Engine      25           1000
  Walking   4
  Running  6
  Jumping  4
Heat Sinks  10
Gyro  (XL)                500
Cockpit                    500
Armor 19                1197  (1/2 the max possible.)
               IS   AV
H             1     2
CT           5    4/1
RT/LT       2    1/1
RA/LA      1     1
RL/LL       3     3
Weapons and Equipment
2 Jump Jet                 2 RT            100   
2 Jump Jet                 2 LT             100
Medium Recoilless Rifle  1 RT         250
Ammo (HRR) 40          2 RT              4
Medium Recoilless Rifle  1 LT         250
Ammo (HRR) 40          2 LT              4
Machine Gun              1 RA           100
Machine Gun              1 LA           100
Ammo (MG)               1 CT              1 kg (50*)
Support Laser            1 RA             72
Support Laser             1 LA            72
 *(rounds up to whole kg)

Something like this. This one would be faster and heavy hitting but really weak armor.

The rule of thumb I gave for the settlers of Syberia were Star League era. At the time I envisioned their arrival in the CNAZ, the Caspar tech was, at best, in a prototype state of development, and a lot of what would become known as the pinnacle of First Star League tech was at least theoretically attainable. The Syberia settlers perfected their own versions of all that tech to what would be First Star League standards, then kind of went overboard on the convertible 'Mechs concept before they started shooting at each other, then telling their drones to do the same, then losing control over the situation entirely and getting themselves killed off for all of that cleverness. The tech would have stopped evolving there, but anything UP to that level of achievement could have been in play, including less advanced gear used for lower-priority/cost-saving/resource-saving work. Going all the way back to 20th century stuff, though, might be an overstep, since anything pre-2300 was pretty much obsolete against the most common electronics, targeting, and armor technologies of the Age of War and later.


- Herb

That's cool. :) I was wondering if the more resource poor/less advanced AutoMech factions would use EW Equipment, Chemical Lasers or even 1945 type tech. The latter to give more variety to lighter AutoMechs. The bigger ones would probably go with Rifle Cannons. I'd also wondered about Cruise Missiles. Omega's Rocket could be a Cruise Missile or something. Other things I wondered about because some fluff mentions things like that. It'd be nice if TPTB had more quirks for those kinds of things.

[HABeas2]

Season 2 G1 Cartoon identities added (exempting a bunch of generics and some oddities not worth mentioning). Plus the command ships!

Code: [Select]

Syberian Faction Chassis Class/Type BattleMech Vehicle
Beach Beetle AutoBoP Beetle (Wheeled/35) Commando Swift Wind
Com Blaster AutoBoP Sounder (Wheeled/60) Prim. Thunderbolt PackRat
Astro-Scout AutoBoP Scout (Aero/30) Daimyo Sholagar ASF
Grapple Crane AutoBoP Lifter (Wheeled/75) Grasshopper JI-100
(Vee-)Hoister AutoBoP Hounder (Wheeled/60) Wolverine Striker
Inferno Crane AutoBoP Lifter (Wheeled/75) Grasshopper Coolant Truck
Supreme Ultima AutoBoP Vengeance (DropShip) -- Vengeance (DS)
Com ’Ceptor AutoBoP Sounder (Wheeled/60) Prim. Thunderbolt PackRat
Power Glider AutoBoP Glider (Aero/40) Crossbow (CRS-6B) Hiryo (WiGE)
Red Jack AutoBoP Jack (Wheeled/50) Shadow Hawk Rotunda
Sea Coaster AutoBoP Coaster (Hover/55) Axman (AXM-2N) Maxim Hovertank
(Vee-)Skidder AutoBoP Hounder (Wheeled/60) Wolverine Striker
Smoke Streaker AutoBoP Streaker (Wheeled/55) Griffin Rotunda
Tracker Jack AutoBoP Jack (Wheeled/50) Shadow Hawk Rotunda
Warp Tanker AutoBoP Tanker (Tracked/70) Hollander Rommel Howitzer
Air Support Team
Aero-Bolt AutoBoP AeroMech-C (Aero/50) Clint IIC P-Hawk Mk I (Fighter)
Aero-Raider AutoBoP AeroMech (Aero/40) Wasp-1 S-Hawk LAM (Fighter)
Aero-Diver AutoBoP AeroMech (Aero/40) Wasp-1 Rapier ASF
Aero-Shot AutoBoP AeroMech (Aero/40) Wasp-1 Rapier ASF
Aero-Fire AutoBoP AeroMech (Aero/40) Wasp-1 Rapier ASF
Defense Support Team
Spot Lifter-P AutoBoP Lifter (Wheeled/75) Grasshopper JI-100
Rotor Blade-P AutoBoP Rotor (VTOL/40) Dola Cavalry VTOL
Aider Vee-P AutoBoP VeeMech (Wheeled/60) Wolverine MASH
Groove Sneaker-P AutoBoP Sneaker (Wheeled/30) Hermes Centipede (+wheels)
Street Streaker-P AutoBoP Streaker (Wheeled/55) Griffin Rotunda
Elite-One Team
Optimal Una AutoBoP Seeker II (Aero/55) Crusader Rusalka (Fighter)
Luna Jack AutoBoP Jack (Wheeled/50) Shadow Hawk Rotunda
Chroma-Vee AutoBoP Hounder (Wheeled/60) Wolverine Demon Tank
Fire-Vee AutoBoP Hounder (Wheeled/60) Wolverine Demon Tank
Green-Sneaker AutoBoP Sneaker (Wheeled/30) Hermes Centipede (+wheels)
Lance-Sneaker AutoBoP Sneaker (Wheeled/30) Hermes Centipede (+wheels)
Ark-One AutoBoP Enhanced Vengeance NA Conquistador (DS)

Team Star Train
Star Train Alpha DemoCon Leader (Wheeled/100) Banshee Long Tom MV
Star Train Beta DemoCon Enhanced Leopard (DS) NA Broadsword (DS)
Team Blitzer
Alpha Blitzer (Tankus) DemoCon Tankus (Tracked/100) Highlander Demolisher
Beta Blitzer DemoCon Seeker II (Aero/55) Crusader Waneta (Fighter)
Death Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk Mechbuster
Ram Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk Mechbuster
Thrust Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk Mechbuster
Blast Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk Mechbuster
Vibroblade Drone DemoCon Flight Drone (Aero/1.5) Aeshna (Micro) --
Bikescout Drone DemoCon Bike Drone (Wheeled/1.5) Minigun Cycle (Inf) --
Ender Formation
Master Motor DemoCon Leader (Wheeled/100) Grand Titan HQ Vehicle
Break Ender DemoCon Jack (Wheeled/50) Shadow Hawk Rotunda
Dead Ender DemoCon Jack (Wheeled/50) Shadow Hawk Rotunda
Wild Ender DemoCon Jack (Wheeled/50) Shadow Hawk Rotunda
Drag Ender DemoCon Ghost (Wheeled/40) Assassin Zephyros
Brute Formation
Master Onslaught DemoCon Leader (Wheeled/100) Grand Titan Long Tom MV
Brute Blaster DemoCon Orbiter (Aero/40) Arbalest Slayer
Brute Brawler DemoCon Brawler (Tracked/65) Pulverizer Manticore
Brute Swindler DemoCon Sounder (Wheeled/60) Prim. Thunderbolt PackRat
Brute Stormer DemoCon Rotor (VTOL/40) Dola Cavalry VTOL
Avenger Alpha DemoCon Enhanced Achilles (DS) NA Tracker (WS)

And, yeah, we have a few new models to introduce now, including:

* Scout class - A 30-ton aerospace unit with a Daimyo Mech form and a Sholagar fighter form (representing Cosmos)
* Glider class - A 40-ton aerospace unit with an Inner Sphere Crossbow Mech form and a Hiryo WiGE fighter form (for Powerglide)
* Coaster class - A 55-ton hover unit with an Axmas-2N Mech form and a Maxim Hovertank form (for Seaspray)
* Tanker class - a 70-ton Tracked unit with a Hollander Mech form and a Howitzer Rommel tank form (for Warpath)
* The AeroMech classes - AutoBoP variants on the Seekers, including a 55-ton Command (C) AeroMech for Silverbolt and 40-ton standard models (to reflect the relative inferiority of most Autobot air forces to those of the Cons). Mech modes include the Clint IIC for the bigger one, and Wasp-1s for the smaller guys, with some interesting fighter modes based on early LAM-based fighter modes and Rapiers (not my favorite look, but there are surprisingly few minis and ASF designs that approximate the most common alt modes those guys used).
* Rotor class - 40-ton VTOL units that use a Dola-like Mech mode and a Cavalry VTOL vehicle form.
* Sneaker class - 30-ton wheeled units that use a Hermes-like Mech mode and modified Centipede vehicles (modded to have wheels) in vehicle form--covers slimmer, more "bike-like" Autobots like Groove and certain interpretations of certain female Autobots, making them better stealthers.
* Orbiter class - A 40-ton aerospace unit with an Arbalest-like Mech mode, that morphs into a Slayer-like fighter mode...despite being pretty lightweight. (The cockpit similarities were too good to pass up; covers the Combaticons' Blast Off, because the only other "shuttle" in the DemoCons is an actual freaking DropShip.)
* Brawler class - Another tracked unit that's not a Tankus variant! This one has a Pulverizer Mech mode and becomes a Manticore-style tank to represent the Combaticons' Brawl without outshining their Leader-class, uh, leader.

* A new "cassette drone" that actually IS just a dumb bike drone, apparently--so I used bike infantry for its form and kept its mass low.

* Non-Converting ships - A Vengeance class DS for Omega Supreme; An upgraded Leopard/Broadsword DS for Astrotrain's transport component; An enhanced Vengeance class DS that looks like a Conquistador for the Ark; and an enhanced Achilles class DS that resembles a Tracker-class WarShip for the Nemesis.

The list also corrects some IE mis-identifications that came out naturally as I tweaked the various model types going forward.

Have funsies!

- Herb

[RifleMech]

Season 2 G1 Cartoon identities added (exempting a bunch of generics and some oddities not worth mentioning). Plus the command ships!
(snip)
The list also corrects some IE mis-identifications that came out naturally as I tweaked the various model types going forward.

That's cool.  :thumbsup:

Have funsies!

- Herb

 ;D Plan too.  :thumbsup: :beer:

[idea weenie]

Had a fun idea based on Elementals carried on Mechs.  Essentially, if a Mech gets hit in a location that carries Battlearmor, the Battlearmor takes damage first.

So, Smart Armor:
Little more than a semi-mobile robotic slab of metal with an attachment grip, this battlearmor is made for the sole purpose of climbing on to a Mech and remaining in place, taking hits that would normally damage the larger Mech.  Far more expensive per ton than the equivalent protection in basic armor, these smart robotic armor units can be attached to any unit that needs a bit more protection than normal.  They are commonly used on the lighter Veemechs as those frames have less armor to begin with.

Examples:
Light Smart Armor:
4 'suits', 6 pts armor each, movement 1/1/3, Battle claw on one arm and basic Manipulator on other, 260 kg cargo on each, 1.7 million C-Bs per squad, 27 BV/suit, or 425k C-B per suit (~71k/pt of armor)

Medium Smart Armor:
4 'suits', 10 pts armor each, movement 1/1/3, Battle claw on one arm and basic Manipulator on other, 160 kg cargo on each, 2.36 million C-Bs per squad, 44 BV/suit, or 590k C-B per suit (59k/pt of armor)

Heavy Smart armor:
4 'suits', 16 pts armor each, movement 1/1/2, Battle claw on one arm and basic Manipulator on other, 235 kg cargo on each, 3.22 million C-Bs per squad, 56.25 BV/suit, or 805k C-B per suit (50.4k/pt of armor)


Jump had to be strong enough that the suit could 'hop into position onto the Veemech to be protected, speed didn't need to be that high, and the Battle Claw was selected so the Smart Armor could grab on to a Mech.  Basic manipulator was selected so these Smart Armors could help out with tasks around a base where wanted.

As a comparison, 1 ton of armor on a 100-ton Mech will provide 16 pts of protection, at a cost of 20k C-Bills.


The fun part is these can be extended to semi-mobile cargo pods, using an unarmored Light BA as an example you have a 365k C-Bill cargo pod that can carry 560 kg of cargo in an unarmored pod.  Not as efficient as a true cargo carrier, but it allows the controller to stop in the hex for one turn, command all the little cargo pods to Jump aboard, and (hopefully) get out of trouble.  Much faster than standard cargo loading rates.

[RifleMech]

Sounds interesting  :)

[Wrangler]

I'm curious how big the armies of Syberia are. Are there more than couple dozen bots or the mass produced? I would hope the later.

Im curious if AutoMechs have society or culture they adopted from the humans before they went extinct.

[HABeas2]

I'm curious how big the armies of Syberia are. Are there more than couple dozen bots or the mass produced? I would hope the later.

Im curious if AutoMechs have society or culture they adopted from the humans before they went extinct.

All of this is mostly explained in Welcome to the Nebula California, which basically notes that the AutoMechs build more of themselves as they need to in order to replace losses and maintain their infrastructure needs. "Character creation" rules for AutoMechs support a range of AutoMech roles beyond combat models alone, and construction rules for their development, skills, and behaviors, within the context off both AToW and BT game play. The gist is that they are automatons made by Syberia's settlers from a pre-Caspar form of AI technology, and are smart enough to pass a Turing test most of the time, but ultimately NOT self-aware in nature (a key example given to prove this is how the Star Seeker unit constantly gets away with openly trying--and failing--to usurp MechaTankus: It's put down to Star Seeker having a disloyal personality quirk, and Mecha Tankus acknowledging this problem, but neither unit having the means to override their hard-coded friend-or-foe protocols effectively enough to do each other in when push comes to shove, resulting in the kind of internal conflict shenanigans we saw over and over in the original G1 cartoons).

The various factions operate in the name of the political states fallen creators maintained at the time of their extinction, which is why there are multiple faction names (DemoCon, AutoBoP, DynaBoG, InterSectCon, and so forth), and while most reside on Syberia itself (which is a still-habitable world partially devastated by nuclear weapons), there are numerous outposts throughout the system's planets and moons from which more groups of AutoMechs operate. (None of these other outposts have been found to have human survivors either, and some may even have been automated from the very start.)

In my head-cannon, the general state of the Syberia system would be roughly analogous to that of the Aligned continuity form of Generation 1 Transformers, which included the War for Cybertron and Fall of Cybertron video games, as well as the Transformers Prime, Transformers: Robots in Disguise, and Transformers: Rescue Bots cartoons (although I never watched that last series), but with certain elements missing due to the limits of BattleTech aesthetics, such as true combiners and "titan-class" transformers. Thus, anything bigger than 200 tons with an AutoMech brain will be a non-transformable unit, and the closest to combiner tech we can get amounts to close-knit teams and/or mechanized/cargo-carried drones like Wave Sounder's "cassettes".

All with tech roughly on par with peak Star League-era gear, no FTL or HPG tech to speak of, and an inability to override their primary directives now that their creators are gone, thus locking them into a permanent war.

- Herb

[Luciora]

No humans means no Kiss Players, good!

[Luciora]

Got the DJ pretty much done.  The vehicle mode i was tempted to give the more prominent headlight hood style, but decided against it.  The wheel guards aren't as distinctive as like, but wanted to play it safe.

[HABeas2]

No humans means no Kiss Players, good!

Weird as it may sound, I really can't stand any of the anime interpretations of Transformers, and the more I hear of the Kiss Players series, the more I think there's something very wrong with the water in Japan....

Got the DJ pretty much done.  The vehicle mode i was tempted to give the more prominent headlight hood style, but decided against it.  The wheel guards aren't as distinctive as like, but wanted to play it safe.

Lookin' sharp, just the same!

- Herb

[RifleMech]

Got the DJ pretty much done.  The vehicle mode i was tempted to give the more prominent headlight hood style, but decided against it.  The wheel guards aren't as distinctive as like, but wanted to play it safe.

Looks good. :thumbsup:

Weird as it may sound, I really can't stand any of the anime interpretations of Transformers, and the more I hear of the Kiss Players series, the more I think there's something very wrong with the water in Japan....

I liked G1 but it got weird with Head and Target Masters. I tried the later ones but they were even more weird. Some of the designs were nice though.

[HABeas2]

Looks good. :thumbsup:

Funny, though; I never appreciated until now just how much the Jazz's front wheels migrate from toy to toy incarnation. I have three different versions of him here, and all three put those wheels in different places in robot mode.

I liked G1 but it got weird with Head and Target Masters. I tried the later ones but they were even more weird. Some of the designs were nice though.

I was getting fatigue when they hit the Head/Target-Masters era, but for me the breaking point was Pretenders. It took a WHILE for me to accept Beast Wars, and forget about the outcome of Beast Machines. But just about NONE of the anime interpretations worked for me, despite the fact that I grew up loving Robotech, Star Blazers, and even thought the lion Voltron was kind of cool (if somewhat insipid [just go straight to the Blazing Sword, okay? we all know every other attack you have won't work. sheesh!]). This is particularly ironic for me as I know the Transformers have Japanese toy/anime origins, and yet their interpretations just fail to appeal. "Kiss Players" was a comic series, I think, and I've only heard/read bits and pieces about it...and every one of those pieces is so far off the reservation they make me wonder if it was an acid trip.

So, yeah, my favorites go as close to the G1 cartoon and more mature variations thereof that we can get.

....Is anyone even interested in the season 3 line-up?

[BLANKET CORRECTION: I kept calling Leader-class 100 tons; they're 85 tons and I really need to pay better attention to my own rules!]

- Herb