Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST

[Sartris]

could have sworn that made my notes... will look into it

Edit: It was determined in the assignment process that the RecGuide also references the phoenix versions - the ravens are the exclusive users of the 2 and 3.

[GreekFire]

To offer my take on things, why would the Ravens spend their limited funds importing the Howler when their natively-produced ProtoMechs (or even older Alliance BattleMechs/vehicles) could already largely fill the same roles.

[MarauderD]

Blackjack BJ-4:  Old art

I noticed all the other Blackjacks are using the new line art from the kickstarter:  thank you for updating the art on the MUL!

However, I believe that the BJ-4 was just an upgrade of older Blackjacks.  It is still using the old art.  If all the 'older' Blackjacks are using the new art, the BJ-4 should probably be using it as well?  Not 100% sure on this, but think it holds true.

Best,

Mad

[Sartris]

Definitely falls under “I did all 3500 at once and missed a few”  :))

Thanks for finding that one. I assume there are some others

[MarauderD]

Definitely falls under “I did all 3500 at once and missed a few”  :))

Thanks for finding that one. I assume there are some others

Just checked all the mechs from the '3 mech panel page' on the Rec Guides.  That was the lone hold out that I found.  Good work sirs!

[Hussar2]

All the BLO omni configurations from Spotlight On: Unending Faith are listed as unique. These are Blesses Order exclusive bit I don't
think they are really one of a kind.

[nckestrel]

All the BLO omni configurations from Spotlight On: Unending Faith are listed as unique. These are Blesses Order exclusive bit I don't
think they are really one of a kind.

The Blessed Order is really small.

[Rainbow 6]

Based off of:
-The Raven's heavy use of Omni units in their second-line formations,
-The Raven's use of Triads for said formations (leaving only 25 BattleMechs per Cluster), and
-The losses suffered immediately after their exodus from the Homeworlds as detailed in Field Report: The Clans,

Not sure about the thoughts there, as of FM:3145 the Ravens six second line clusters have a combined omni rating of 0%

Of the twelve front line cluster only one is 100% omni, two are in the 60's and three are in the 50's percentage wise, with the other six being in the 40's or 30's.

[GreekFire]

Not sure about the thoughts there, as of FM:3145 the Ravens six second line clusters have a combined omni rating of 0%

Of the twelve front line cluster only one is 100% omni, two are in the 60's and three are in the 50's percentage wise, with the other six being in the 40's or 30's.

This isn't really MUL talk, so I'll bring it over to the Raven thread if you want to keep talking about this.

[Scotty]

Isn't the entire point of the MUL that we aren't theoretically building entire faction militaries to determine exact numbers of units? ???

[GreekFire]

I'm simply using it as guidance and not hard and inviolable fact.
But I can see that it's distracted from the purpose of the thread. I'll remove it from my post and ask for a refocus towards feedback for the MUL itself.

[Rainbow 6]

Rec Guide 1, Hellbringer (Loki), combat example of the design being used by the CCAF against Davion mercs during the dark age era, design not present on the Capellan section of the MUL for that era.

[Sartris]

Rec Guide 1, Hellbringer (Loki), combat example of the design being used by the CCAF against Davion mercs during the dark age era, design not present on the Capellan section of the MUL for that era.

This is under investigation

[Rainbow 6]

Looking for Rec Guide 9 in the sources section of the MUL but not showing on the list of sources.

Although searching for individual units EG the Valkyrie does show the RG9 units and the book as the source.

Rec Guide 9 Vapor Eagle 6 according to pdf is built on Dante in the Raven Alliance for the Alliance but is listed on the MUL as Jade Falcon exclusive.

[GreekFire]

Rec Guide 9 Vapor Eagle 6 according to pdf is built on Dante in the Raven Alliance for the Alliance but is listed on the MUL as Jade Falcon exclusive.

I see a reference to the Ravens building a "version capable of providing indirect fire support for the Alliance’s conventional forces". Based off of the record sheets in my version of the product, that would be the 5 (equipped with an LRM-20). The 6 is the version with twin UAC/2s instead.

[Mendrugo]

The Ravens make both the 5 and 6.  What the Falcons have is left over isorla from the Steel Vipers.

[Sartris]

We had initially set the Thunder Stallion 4 from Shrapnel #3 as an Arc Royal production variant with the first runs coming off the line in 3148-3149 for Wolf in Exile, the Kell Hounds, Lyrans, and Mercs. Post-review, GreekFire noted the unpleasant fact that the Falcons had taken control of the planet in 3146 while the line was still under construction. Since Shattered Fortress makes no mention of Wolf in Exile sabotage of their facilities during the retreat nor the Falcons targeting them, it was determined that the Falcon tech caste would have put the finishing touches on the line in time for its production debut. The CHH line on Csesztreg remains unchanged.

[Hussar2]

Inferno OR config lacks availability.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7719/inferno-inf-nor
Should be Davion

[GreekFire]

The Ravens make both the 5 and 6.  What the Falcons have is left over isorla from the Steel Vipers.

Thanks for the authorial input! I've adjusted things accordingly.

Inferno OR config lacks availability.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7719/inferno-inf-nor
Should be Davion

Good catch, fixed!

[Hussar2]

ICRG vol 10
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/72/archer-wolf

Archer (Wolf) is available to Wolfs Dragoons Kell Hounds and Wolves in exile but as far as I know it's a unique design, Jaime Wolf personal customized design.

Another question is  the Highlander 740. It's a design produced in the near Lyran periphery yet it's available to the Capellan Confederation. is it a mistake or are they buying it from StarCorps?

[Sartris]

Sometimes people’s custom rides get adopted as either production variants or common refit

Re: the highlander - son hoa gains independence around the turn of the 32nd century and sells to anyone with cash

[S.gage]

Vulture (Mad Dog) V:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7729/vulture-mad-dog-v

Just a little thing, the introduction date for the Vulture (Mad Dog) V reads "309". Thanks!

S.gage

[GreekFire]

Vulture (Mad Dog) V:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7729/vulture-mad-dog-v

Just a little thing, the introduction date for the Vulture (Mad Dog) V reads "309". Thanks!

S.gage

Thanks for the catch! It's been fixed.

[Rainbow 6]

Shouldn't the Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 be listed as intro tech like the -1D and -1K instead of Standard which it currently is?

[Sartris]

That is an odd one... will confer

[GreekFire]

Shouldn't the Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 be listed as intro tech like the -1D and -1K instead of Standard which it currently is?

It should, yeah. Fixed!

[jasonf]

Hi guys, I've been going down the rabbit hole of TROs and the like for fun, and think I've come across some errata. Here are the ones I am most sure about:

1. These units are introduced after 3061 so should not be available in Clan Invasion era:
Wasp 4W (3065): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7497/wasp-wsp-4w
Commando 4H (3062): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/673/commando-com-4h
Assassin 30 (3062): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/129/assassin-asn-30

2. I think the intro year for the ENF-6Ma Enforcer III variant might be a typo (should be 3067 instead of 3076?) Record Sheets-3085 list it as introduced in Civil War era:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/983/enforcer-iii-enf-6ma

3. PXH-HK2 P-Hawk LAM: delete "Extinct" from Civil War era? (has both "Extinct" available to WoB during era)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4822/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2

4. Maybe you haven't gotten to it yet, but the SHD-2Ht Shadow Hawk variant from BoT doesn't have an entry yet.

5. Don't know if this is a known issue, but Comstar and WoB use the "All-Inner Sphere" lists for Clan Invasion, Civil War, and Jihad eras. This ends up giving them availability to a bunch of Succession War-era variants they likely shouldn't have access to (i.e., Intro-level tech variants introduced after the fall of the Star League, and therefore not in Comstar's stockpile). For an example, you can compare the older Locusts Comstar has in Late SW (renaissance) vs. Clan Invasion:
Late SW, only has the LCT-1V: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=18&EraId=256
Clan Invasion, has the upgraded LCT-3M, but also now the older LCT-1E and LCT-3V: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=18&EraId=13

6. I went down a long rabbit hole researching when the Clan's Advanced Tac Missiles came online. They first appeared in FM: Warden Clans, so back when I was last playing (around 2000), I had thought of them as coming online around 3060, but all sources since cite them as online in 3054. From what I can figure out, the ATM's come online in 3054 but only a handful of Omni configs use them prior to the intro of the Savage Coyote (3059). These are the Ryoken E, Loki C, and Fire Falcon E (according to FM: Warden Clans). If I'm interpreting things correctly, that would mean the following Omni configurations should have an intro date of 3059/3060 instead of 3054:
Dasher E
Koshi E
Uller E
Dragonfly E
Fenris E
Black Hawk E
Vulture D
Thor E
Mad Cat E
Masakari D
Daishi C


I also found a bunch of others related to availability, but I am less sure about these (I have references suggesting they are errata, but there might be other sources I missed saying otherwise). I can list those in another post, but I didn't want to flood the thread with them unless you guys would find it useful. I think the majority are related to availabilities based on Historical: War of 3039 and the new Battle of Tukayyid supplement.

[Sartris]

some of these will require more discussion than others

1. sometimes units are developed in other eras and don't really see the light of day until later. not saying that's true with these, but it's worth kicking up the line to be sure

2. likely a typo

3. definitely a mistake. fixed

4. seems like an accidental omission as it's not even in our view

5. they had other methods of acquisition besides star league stockpiles. wob, for example, could have found some used LCT-1Es for sale or picked them off dead mercs in the chaos march that gave them a more significant quantity than before. they were actively trying to build the protectorate militia at that point. ComStar had to adjust after losing terra and was getting a lot of equipment from all over

6. worth investigation

thanks!

[GreekFire]

I've fixed the 'Mechs mentioned in point one; all three of those were mistakes. I'll tackle point four in just a few minutes.

As for point six, the direct quote is "...it (the ATM) was employed on a number of existing chassis during the weapon's testing period. Three of the most successful configurations..." That quote gives enough wiggle room for more OmniMechs to have ATM configurations prior to the Savage Coyote's debut. Those configs could be considered testbeds that would later reach widespread acceptance.

As for the availability things you might have found, you can always PM one of us (or post it in this thread, both are fine) and we'll take a look at things from there. But don't be shy to post things that you're unsure about! It's always helpful.

[jasonf]

As for point six, the direct quote is "...it (the ATM) was employed on a number of existing chassis during the weapon's testing period. Three of the most successful configurations..." That quote gives enough wiggle room for more OmniMechs to have ATM configurations prior to the Savage Coyote's debut. Those configs could be considered testbeds that would later reach widespread acceptance.

That makes sense, thanks, especially since it's pretty much confined to the TR3050 models.
 

As for the availability things you might have found, you can always PM one of us (or post it in this thread, both are fine) and we'll take a look at things from there. But don't be shy to post things that you're unsure about! It's always helpful.

Ok, I'll try to organize what I have so it's easier to go through and post soon!