The Magshot … On Vehicles

[Goose]

I haven't seen many, but that just means it's overdue for gobs of fluff!  >:D

But seriously, folks: What kind'a light mid-sized Vee would you build, if you had more Magshots then Carter has liver pills?

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

It is not a fan design forum, but it seems decent on close combat vehicles. But the issues are:
-Can be outmatched by rapid-fire MGs, although it is also dangerous to enter the melee range, and MG is also not so efficient for small vehicles that have only few slots left to MGs.
-Light to medium vehicles are not have much spare weight left after put some medium lasers, and ML is much better choice.

The latter part is a serious problem, so it is not so efficient to put Magshot on the spare slots easily. Even if you want to add ONE Magshot you need at least two slots - one for weapon, and one for bullet.

[Daryk]

If you want actual designs, I'm sure the mods will cheerfully move this thread down to the design forum where it should be...

[Charlie Tango]

If you want actual designs, I'm sure the mods will cheerfully move this thread down to the design forum where it should be...

Just say the word.

[Goose]

Gee: If there's really so little to say, up here in officialdom, feel-free to jump-start the discussion by moving it …

[glitterboy2098]

i think it would make a good main gun for a light APC.. 1.5 tons for 2 damage, 9 range, and 50 shots? not terrible. especially if using an ICE, which would require a power converter for most of the alternatives that aren't single shot.

it's just easily overshadowed by other things once you have several tons for use in weapons.

if the IS ever gets a protomech type unit i could see it becoming a staple there as well.

[Jellico]

SRM 2. 2 tons. 50 shots. Same range profile. Same damage with spikes to 4.

[Daryk]

And the option to use Fragmentation or Inferno ammo...

[Wolf72]

counter with ... um ... immune to AMS! Hah! ... it's a fluff weapon, I like it.  Think range of 10 or 12 would have been cooler.

[dgorsman]

Additional damage to BA, a la the optional rules for the BA King David and Bearhunter would be nice, I think.  I see it as much more of an anti-BA weapon than anything else.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Yeah, if it got the AP Gauss’s burst damage vs infantry, it’d be pretty competitive with SRMs.  As it stands, it’s basically an AMS-proof SRM 1.

[Charlie Tango]

Gee: If there's really so little to say, up here in officialdom, feel-free to jump-start the discussion by moving it …

Official notice:  This thread has been moved to Fan Designs -- Combat vehicles

Now please feel free to post designs.

[Wolf72]

Yeah, if it got the AP Gauss’s burst damage vs infantry, it’d be pretty competitive with SRMs.  As it stands, it’s basically an AMS-proof SRM 1.

That would be to much imo, the AP gauss is noted as a flechette style weapon.  Magshot is a one-shot.  Maybe a simple double dmg vs infantry and BA (iirc in one book a sniper with an infantry magshot was able to down an elemental thru it's viewport)? (not sure if that would be simple).

edit: Now hold on here ... also, the magshot is only .5 tons vs 1 full ton of the SRM ... so two magshots would be like an SRM-2 with half the ammo.  I don't think that has any bearing on the conversation.  Carry on.

[Goose]

Right; So: What's this I hear 'bout optional rules for the King-D and Bearhunter?

[Jellico]

King David got the bonus against infantry to compensate for the Magshot's superior damage.

How soon we forget just how superior the Magshot was as a battle armor weapon. They and the King David are still the only IS BA guns that reach 9 hexes at a sensible weight.

[Liam's Ghost]

SRM 2. 2 tons. 50 shots. Same range profile. Same damage with spikes to 4.

You'll more consistently score hits at close range with both guns than you will with both SRMs.  :P

[Jellico]

Right; So: What's this I hear 'bout optional rules for the King-D and Bearhunter?

I forget exactly when (Combat Equipment or Tech Manual) the new BA weapons like the Plasma Rifle, Heavy Flamer, King David, and Bearhunter were given Machine Gun style D6 bonuses against infantry. This was to match their burst fire/flechette/flaming fluff and compensate for their weakness per kg vs the infamously Fed Suns Magshot.

That is nice and all but who really uses infantry?

So when Tac Ops got revised these BA weapons were brought in and given tweaks. The flames got downgraded a bit. But the others got D6 bonuses against Battle Armor. This turned them into brutal anti BA specialists with issues against Mechs and Vehicles compared to a Magshot or even a small laser.

How brutal? The Bearhunter can OSK a Kanazuchi. This was considered excessive until it was pointed out that it was an average shot under RPG rules. Under base BT rules the Bearhunter would do 3 damage.

2nd printing of Tac Ops.P109. 3rd printing had some big errata issues and went back to 1st printing for some reason.

[Sabelkatten]

Vehicle MagShot vs/ SRM:

Pros:
-Better damage/ton (4 to 2.8 )
-Can use TC

Cons:
-Worse ammo/ton (100 dmg to 140 damage)
-No special ammo

A relatively cheap hunter/killer hovertank:

Code: [Select]

MagShotGun

Mass: 25 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 603 750 C-Bills
Battle Value: 652

Power Plant:  120 Fuel Cell Engine
Cruise Speed: 108,0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 162,0 km/h
Armor:  Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    8  Magshots
    1 Unknown Targeting Computer
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      15 points                2,50
Engine:             Fuel-Cell Engine             120                       5,00
    Cruise MP:  10
    Flank MP:   15
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             1                         0,00
Control Equipment:                                                         1,50
Lift Equipment:                                                            2,50
Turret:                                                                    0,50
Armor:              Light Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 101                  6,00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     25       
                                          Left/Right   20/20       
                                              Turret     20       
                                                Rear     16       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Magshots                                   T         8         8         4,00
Targeting Computer                           BD        -         1         1,00
@Magshot Gauss Rifle (100)                   BD        -         0         2,00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 7
10h        2       2       0       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/0)

[Goose]

 :-\ 10 items on a 25 ton tank?

[Goose]

Code: [Select]

          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                   * CUSTOM WEAPON

Type/Model:    Bookmark Tramy
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3062
Config:        Tracked Vehicle
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          25 tons
Power Plant:   125 Nissan Fusion
Cruise Speed:  54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Armor Type:    Reactive
Armament:     
  1 Streak SRM 4
  3 Magshots*
  1 Laser AMS
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Capabilities:==
Narrow Profile 3
Compact 1

Difficult to Maintain -1
EM Interfearance (L-AMS) -1
Exposed Weapon Linkage (L-AMS) -2

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Bookmark Tramy
Mass:          25 tons
Construction Options:  Fractional Accounting

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  15 pts Standard               0      2.50
Engine:        125 Fusion                    0      4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      2.00
    Cruise MP:   5
     Flank MP:   8
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      1.25
Crew: 2 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0       .60
Armor Factor:   82 pts Reactive              2      5.13

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     3         25
   Left / Right Sides:        3      16/16
   Rear:                      3         10
   Turret:                    3         15

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Streak SRM 4           Turret   0   25     2      4.00
3 Magshots*              Turret   0  100     4      3.50
1 Laser AMS              Turret   7          1      1.50
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment     Body                1       .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           7         10     24.98
Items & Tons Left:                           0       .02

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        1,061,542 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    494 (old BV = 297)
Cost per BV:       2,148.87
Weapon Value:      139 / 112 (Ratio = .28 / .23)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 11;  MRDmg = 2;  LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 5T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 3
                   Damage PB/M/L: 1/1/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GL;  Point Value: 5
Derp: Ten items …

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

That's why Magshot is not so easy pick for the lights and meds....

[Sabelkatten]

I've mostly used MagShots to fill out TCs. SNPPC+4xMagShot (8 tons), PR+LAC/5+2xMagShot (12 tons) for example.

[Jellico]

They are also prone to cascading ammo explosions. They tend to exist in batteries. Ironically the low damage is rarely enough to kill a Mech but it will turn a pilot to mush.

Obviously not a problem on vehicles.

[Andras]

What if you used them on light conventional or Aerospace fighters?

30t Aerospace 8/12 SFE, 5t fuel, 10magshots, 100 ammo, 8t armor=1.4mcb

there are limited hit locations on the fighters so the dispersion of fire won't be so bad, and you can get more chances of crits/lawn darts

[Jellico]

The range brackets mean that you don't need the 9 hexes. A MG has the same effective range and weight with less heat and more ammo per ton.

[boilerman]

No fluff but you asked for a medium vehicle so here's a tank destroyer. The Magshots and some other lighter heavy-class weapons are mounted in sponson turrets to provide all around protection. I envision the sponson turrets as something like a real world remote weapons mount like the CROWS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_controlled_weapon_station


Bison 40 AGS

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-D-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 1,323,700 C-Bills
Battle Value: 676

Power Plant:  120 Fuel Cell Engine
Cruise Speed: 32.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Armor:  Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Autocannon/20
    4  Rocket Launcher 10s
    2  Magshots
    2  Light Machine Guns
    1 Unknown CASE
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      20 points                4.00
Engine:             Fuel-Cell Engine             120                       5.00
    Cruise MP:  3
    Flank MP:   5
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             1                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret: Sponson                                                            0.50
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV -  98                  5.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     30       
                                          Left/Right   23/23       
                                              Turret     0         
                                                Rear     22       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/20                                FR        7         1        14.00
Magshot                                      LSpT      1         1         0.50
Light Machine Gun                            LSpT      0         1         0.50
2 Rocket Launcher 10s                        LSpT      6         2         1.00
Magshot                                      RSpT      1         1         0.50
Light Machine Gun                            RSpT      0         1         0.50
2 Rocket Launcher 10s                        RSpT      6         2         1.00
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50
@AC/20 (15)                                  BD        -         0         3.00
@Magshot Gauss Rifle (50)                    BD        -         0         1.00
@LMG (1/2) (100)                             BD        -         0         0.50

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 7
3t         3       3       1       0      2     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: CASE, EE, TUR(), AC 2/2/0

[Retry]

You can virtually replicate the Ontos (the real one) using Magshots.

Code: [Select]

Mini-Ontos
Mass: 10 tons
Movement Type: Tracked
Power Plant: 60 Fuel Cell
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     6 MagShot
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 129,250 C-bills
Type: Mini-Ontos
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 10
Battle Value: 248
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure 1
Engine 60 Fuel Cell 2
     Cruising MP: 6
     Flanking MP: 9
Heat Sinks: 1 0
Control Equipment: 0.5
Power Amplifier: 0
Turret: 0.5
Armor Factor: 32 2
Internal
Structure Armor
Value
Front 1 10
R/L Side 1/1 6/6
Rear 1 5
Turret 1 5

[Goose]

Code: [Select]

          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                   * CUSTOM WEAPONS

Type/Model:    Spoof of Concept Theta
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3060
Config:        Tracked Vehicle
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          20 tons
Power Plant:   120 GM Fusion
Cruise Speed:  64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:     
  3 Magshots*
  1 Anti-Missile System
  1 Light Machine Gun*
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Spoof of Concept Theta
Mass:          20 tons
Construction Options:  Fractional Accounting

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  10 pts Standard               0      2.00
Engine:        120 Fusion                    0      4.00
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      2.00
    Cruise MP:   6
     Flank MP:   9
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      1.00
Crew: 2 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0       .25
Armor Factor:   68 pts Standard              0      4.25

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     2         20
   Left / Right Sides:        2      14/14
   Rear:                      2          9
   Turret:                    2         11

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
3 Magshots*              Turret   0  100     4      3.50
1 Anti-Missile System    Turret   0   12     2      1.50
1 Light Machine Gun*     Turret   0  100     2      1.00
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment     Body                1       .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           0          9     20.00
Items & Tons Left:                           0       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        502,200 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    364 (old BV = 202)
Cost per BV:       1,379.67
Weapon Value:      57 / 57 (Ratio = .16 / .16)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 5;  MRDmg = 1;  LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 6T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 3
                   Damage PB/M/L: 1/1/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GL;  Point Value: 4
I keep trying to reinvent the Ontos with these, but the item count always bites me on the nose …