Three biggest OMG moments from reading latest edition of TW errata

[SCC]

On the C3 issue, way back when the rules strongly implied that a company leader needed two Master, that's not the case anymore, things change, hopefully for the better

[Scotty]

That's been there for a long time.  Going prone is one of the easiest ways to get full cover from a level 1 hill.

[StCptMara]

On the C3 issue, way back when the rules strongly implied that a company leader needed two Master, that's not the case anymore, things change, hopefully for the better

Still one way, though. C3, I think, is one of the most adjusted/modified rules since its inception
out there.

[Hellraiser]

Wow, C3 just got even more expensive/useless unless there is some MAJOR change to the BV calculations.

[cavingjan]

The biggest change is that Angel ECM no longer stops streaks from doing their all or nothing thing while stealth armor is active. I'm still scratching my head why ECM range wasn't cut down to 1 (or 0) hex instead of this clunky change.

[evilauthor]

The biggest change is that Angel ECM no longer stops streaks from doing their all or nothing thing while stealth armor is active. I'm still scratching my head why ECM range wasn't cut down to 1 (or 0) hex instead of this clunky change.

Presumably because since Stealth Armor REQUIRES ECM, the ECM must be doing something to aid stealth. And if the ECM is doing Stealth things, it can't do regular ECM duties at the same time.

[Alexander Knight]

Presumably because since Stealth Armor REQUIRES ECM, the ECM must be doing something to aid stealth. And if the ECM is doing Stealth things, it can't do regular ECM duties at the same time.

You are correct, sir!

[Hellraiser]

• VTOL's are no longer immune to destruction due to loss of all rotor IS points.  Errata page 6.

This wouldn't bother me so much if vehicles didn't live through TURRET destruction!
At least with Rotors it made some sense,  blow it off, it falls down,  if it manages to survive then its salvageable.

[Taharqa]

You have to roll for each bomb you drop when dive-bombing. That should help nerf the effects of dive bombing a bit.

[Paul]

This wouldn't bother me so much if vehicles didn't live through TURRET destruction!

They don't.

p. 121:
"vehicles: Hits against vehicles follow the same general procedure
as hits against ’Mechs, though vehicles cannot survive
the destruction of a location and damage does not transfer."

The turret is a location. Also note the text for the critical hit version, p.195:

"turret Blown off : The Combat Vehicle’s turret gets blown
off , eff ectively destroying the vehicle."

Paul

[SCC]

Basically the change to VTOL rotors makes them even with other vehicles, it also makes them more survivable on campaigns

[Jim1701]

Basically the change to VTOL rotors makes them even with other vehicles, it also makes them more survivable on campaigns

That depends on the campaign rules.  In our campaign it would make them less survivable as vehicle destruction of this type was not salvageable. 

[Hellraiser]

They don't.

p. 121:
"vehicles: Hits against vehicles follow the same general procedure
as hits against ’Mechs, though vehicles cannot survive
the destruction of a location and damage does not transfer."

The turret is a location. Also note the text for the critical hit version, p.195:

"turret Blown off : The Combat Vehicle’s turret gets blown
off , eff ectively destroying the vehicle."

Paul

Hmm, Maybe its "Truly Destroyed" that turrets don't accomplish then, but I swore there was something about it that bothered me.

[Paul]

Hmm, Maybe its "Truly Destroyed" that turrets don't accomplish then, but I swore there was something about it that bothered me.

It may have different implications for salvage, but as far as gameplay's concerned, they're done.

[SCC]

That depends on the campaign rules.  In our campaign it would make them less survivable as vehicle destruction of this type was not salvageable.

I'm talking by the book rules, StratOps specifically says that units that have lost Turrets or Rotors can be returned to service, if you're using something else that's fine but be aware that it is a house rule and should be excluded from discussions like this.

Hmm, Maybe its "Truly Destroyed" that turrets don't accomplish then, but I swore there was something about it that bothered me.

Correct, do people want me to quote the section of the rules? It's on StratOps, page 175

[Jim1701]

I'm talking by the book rules, StratOps specifically says that units that have lost Turrets or Rotors can be returned to service, if you're using something else that's fine but be aware that it is a house rule and should be excluded from discussions like this.
Correct, do people want me to quote the section of the rules? It's on StratOps, page 175

No need to be snippy.  Quite frankly I was not aware that was a house rule.  I stand corrected. 

[Paul]

I don't think malicious intent was intended, we all goof on the rules sometimes. Heck, I've got some real shiny examples on the official rules forum.

[Hellraiser]

It wasn't a house rule.

For Vehicles:  Destroyed = Truly Destroyed in all cases but Rotor/Turret, you blow through any other section and the tank is so much scrap.

I think what SCC is saying is now a Vtol is "removed from the board" instead of being there able be fired at till it is "Truly Destroyed".  So while the unit is out for the game now, its not unrepairable.

[SCC]

I think what SCC is saying is now a Vtol is "removed from the board" instead of being there able be fired at till it is "Truly Destroyed".  So while the unit is out for the game now, its not unrepairable.

Yes, that's my understanding of how the rules work now and when that errata was first released I did raise the concern

[Lorcan Nagle]

Hmm, Maybe its "Truly Destroyed" that turrets don't accomplish then, but I swore there was something about it that bothered me.

IIRC a vehicle could survive turret destruction prior to Total Warfare.

[Colt Ward]

Maybe as an advanced rule . . .

[SCC]

I don't have a copy of BMRr, but the copy of compendium I have doesn't allow them to survive turret destruction

[Sartris]

I don't have a copy of BMRr, but the copy of compendium I have doesn't allow them to survive turret destruction

Compendium and BMR have basically the same text on this rule.

[MadCapellan]

IIRC a vehicle could survive turret destruction prior to Total Warfare.

To my knowledge, they've never been allowed to do so....

[Wrayth]

I'll miss abusing this  :'(

Same here.  This makes me glad that I played on the WoBbie side and not my normal Lyran in the last game.  It gave me a final chance to abuse the spotter's lack of need for line of sight.  (Hi, Marauder, meet my KGC-005's twin LB-20X slugs and streaks!  Too bad you can't use your pulse lasers to slag that Preta 4 hexes away from you since he's got full cover from the level 2 hill...)

[Lorcan Nagle]

To my knowledge, they've never been allowed to do so....

I could be mistaken, but my BattleTech rulebooks are all the way across the room.  It is entirely possible that this is one of those "hatchets hit on the punch table" misconceptions.

[MadCapellan]

I could be mistaken, but my BattleTech rulebooks are all the way across the room.  It is entirely possible that this is one of those "hatchets hit on the punch table" misconceptions.

Probably.  At big public demo games, there tends to be at least one player who thinks that is the rule, just like hatchets on the punch table.

[Diablo48]

I think you may be talking past each other.  It looks to me like the original comment about surviving turret loss was for salvage, not gameplay.  That would mean that the loss of the turret takes the vehicle out of play so it is "destroyed" on the playing field, but it is intact enough to be salvaged so it is not "destroyed" in a larger campaign.

[Lorcan Nagle]

No, I was actually under the impression that vehicles could survive turret destruction in games prior to Total Warfare.  We were agreeing with one another!

[SCC]

They can, at the campaign level.

The weird thing is I don't know if you HAVE to repair it before it can be sent into the field again, which COULD be useful with Omni tanks

That said, I believe that TacOps made tanks mounting sponsons more survivable, I've got an older editor that requires sponsons to be armored like turrets