Author Topic: A 3025 mech that can take on the clans?  (Read 3617 times)

AlphaMirage

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Re: A 3025 mech that can take on the clans?
« Reply #30 on: 15 February 2022, 11:30:32 »
Well if we are applying Zellbrigen to this battle then obviously the Clanner should be bidding away some of their weapons, intentionally holding fire until their adversary can reach engagement range, go against 2 to 1 odds, or accept a loss if their opponent can inflict a certain threshold of damage (side destroyed for instance) in order to make it a worthwhile challenge. All of which are easily achievable in the Batchall if such a deal was understood by the Inner Sphere.

Remember that Zellbrigen is more something individual Warriors do for their own glory and reflects on their own codex. The proposed scenario is that Zell is not in effect and thus the Clanner can freely back away (not run away, that would be cowardly) to keep the distance open in order to minimize damage to themselves (not no damage, that's also cowardly). Clan mechs' biggest peer advantage is their mobility (tech doesn't depend on platform, its good everywhere) vs Inner Sphere due to their XL engines and that's the biggest problem with fighting Clanners with only Introtech. They can effectively always kite you and force you to take damage as you close the range gap. Unless you can shoot at them with torrents of AC/2 fire you will always be closing and firing at long range while they are at medium

I mean if we are going into the nonsense that are LAMs (seriously FASA, why!?) then obviously that's a whole different can of worms.

Lagrange

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Re: A 3025 mech that can take on the clans?
« Reply #31 on: 15 February 2022, 22:38:11 »
The Sandblaster concept doesn't seem to require LAMs.  Here's a simple mech version.

Code: [Select]
Sandblaster

Mass: 55 tons
Chassis: Standard Biped
Power Plant: 275 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     13 Small Laser
     13 Machine Gun
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3025
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-F(F*)-X-X
Cost: 4,938,894 C-bills

Type: Sandblaster-5
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 55
Battle Value: 1,211

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  5.5
Engine                        275 Fusion           15.5
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  184                  11.5

                          Internal   Armor 
                          Structure  Value 
     Head                    3         9   
     Center Torso            18        27   
     Center Torso (rear)               8   
     R/L Torso               13        20   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  6   
     R/L Arm                 9         18   
     R/L Leg                 13        26   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                 Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Small Laser               LL        2        1       1.0 
Jump Jet                    CT        1        -       0.5 
Machine Gun                 CT        1        0       0.5 
2 Jump Jet                  RT        2        -       1.0 
6 Machine Gun               RT        6        0       3.0 
4 Small Laser               RT        4        1       2.0 
Machine Gun Ammo (200)      LA        1        -       1.0 
2 Double Heat Sink          LA        6        -       2.0 
2 Jump Jet                  LT        2        -       1.0 
6 Machine Gun               LT        6        0       3.0 
4 Small Laser               LT        4        1       2.0 
2 Small Laser               RL        2        1       1.0 
Small Laser                 HD        1        1       0.5 
2 Double Heat Sink          RA        6        -       2.0 
The Sandblaster has a 5/8/5 movement with 13 machine guns and 13 small lasers that do not interfere with punches providing a damage potential of 77.  It's heat neutral when walking and firing all weapons.  It can overheat by 4 if jumping and firing all weapons.

The general strategy is to use a handheld weapon with an SRM-6 (3 tons), smoke rounds(1 ton), and some armor (1 ton) on approach.  The smoke rounds provide 15 rounds which is adequate to approach just about anything slow enough.  For example, a 4/6 clan mech can back up at 4, implying it's possible to close at 8-4=4 hexes/turn which takes 7 turns.  A 5/8 mech backs up at 5, reducing closing to 3 hexes/turn which takes 9 turns.  A 6/9 mech requires 13 turns to close.  A 7/11 mech is to fast.

Once the Sandblaster reaches close combat range, it drops the handheld weapon, closes, and fires all weapons, followed by punches.

Questions
Can you hit a target hex at range 8 or 9 with the SRM-6 reliably enough?  Probably not, but in a group there's a decent chance of hitting a hex which provides adequate cover for several Sandblasters.

Would a clan force back away from an inner sphere force firing smoke?  Maybe not in some situations?   

Does this do enough damage to matter?  Consider the close-combat firepower of clan mechs:
                  Damage   Armor   Move
Dire Wolf:       98         19       3/5
Executioner:   58         16.2    4/6(8 )/4
Warhawk:       59         16.2    4/6
Gargoyle A:     56         13.2    5/8
Timber Wolf:    64        14.4    5/8
Summoner:     44        11.4    5/8/5
Hellbringer:     57         8        5/8
Mad Dog:        54         10.2    5/8
Stormcrow:     46         11.4    6/9
Nova:              70         10      5/8  (using dial-down optimally)
(Note: damage includes a physical attack, typically a kick and is heat neutral when standing still.)

The Dire Wolf is out of reach, but the others look like they are fairly comparable to the Sandblaster?  I look at sqrt(damage*armor) as a single figure of merit.  The Sandblaster is at 29.8 so Executioner (30.7), Warhawk (30.9), and Timber Wolf (30.4) are only slightly larger.

Karack Blackstone

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Re: A 3025 mech that can take on the clans?
« Reply #32 on: 17 February 2022, 17:22:43 »
TWolf pilots NOT firing both ER PPC's and 2 MPL's while running are not heat walking.

And, occasionally, if one can fire the 3 MPL's, or 2 MPL's and the SSRM 6 as well as the ER PPC's, then only 1 MPL and both PPC's...?

Is yet another option besides the first line.

Lagrange

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Re: A 3025 mech that can take on the clans?
« Reply #33 on: 16 September 2022, 21:21:59 »
I realized something looking over this thread: handheld weapons aren't available in 3025, invalidating several of the above mobile cover designs.