Author Topic: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip  (Read 879 times)

Gorgon

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Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« on: 01 September 2024, 15:06:32 »
Inspired by the current tangent in the "Thriving in the Deep Periphery" thread - this one is for Daryk and Cray.

A Jumpship that can juuust fit two drop collars and a dropship that can barely lift it out of a gravity well  :laugh:

Code: [Select]
Bare Minimum Jumpship
Mass: 78,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 78,000
Battle Value: 128
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-X-F
Cost: 473,774,250 C-bills

Fuel: 100 tons (1,000)
Safe Thrust: 0
Maximum Thrust: 0
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 3
Heat Sinks: 88
Structural Integrity: 1

Armor
    Nose: 1
    Fore Sides: 1/1
    Aft Sides: 1/1
    Aft: 1

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (15.5 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
    None

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 1
Crew:  2 officers, 8 enlisted/non-rated       

Notes: Mounts 7.5 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:     Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
None


And its way out of that gravity well that birthed it, with just enough extra room to fit the Bare Minimum's crew and a small ten-person tech team for fitting out as passengers:

Code: [Select]
Mountain Mover Heavy Lift Dropship
Type: Civilian Spheriod
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 330
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-X-D
Cost: 698,185,600 C-bills

Fuel: 300 tons (3,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 176
Structural Integrity: 5

Armor
    Nose: 38
    Sides: 32/32
    Aft: 26

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (78000.0 tons)    1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (62.0 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
    None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  5 officers, 20 enlisted/non-rated, 20 passengers       

Notes: Mounts 18 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:     Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
None
« Last Edit: 01 September 2024, 15:26:51 by Gorgon »
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Daryk

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #1 on: 01 September 2024, 15:21:20 »
Don't forget Cray! :)

Nicely done, though! :D

Gorgon

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #2 on: 01 September 2024, 15:28:06 »
How could I? I've lost track of the hours I've sunk into playing with all the rules he helped create. The Solar System creation rules alone have gotten me through more than one very slow work day  :laugh:
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Daryk

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #3 on: 01 September 2024, 16:30:41 »
Ah, it was the evil spell checker that corrected it to "Craig"... ;)

Gorgon

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #4 on: 01 September 2024, 17:08:31 »
Indeed it was.

As a side note: A Scout's length is given at 275 meters, while an Explorer is only 205 meters. The Bare Minimum is 12,000 tons lighter than the Scout, so it might just be a bit shorter (length for canon Jumpships seems to be more or less relative to weight). A Behemoth, meanwhile, has a height of 273 meters. So a purpose built dropship like the Mountain Mover may just be tall enough to fit a small Jumpship...
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Daryk

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #5 on: 01 September 2024, 17:14:08 »
Yeah, I suspect it's the length of the cores that would prevent them from being lifted more than their tonnage (now that I've done the math)... :)

Lagrange

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #6 on: 01 September 2024, 20:00:49 »
It's quite interesting that you can build a jumpship planetside.  And carried as cargo, it might survive lifting to orbit as I don't think the thrust maximums apply to things carried as cargo.

Why go for 2 collars on the jumpship?  Just to prove you could do it?  Going with 1 collar looks like it would leave a much more viable jumpship design. 

Daryk

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #7 on: 01 September 2024, 20:03:35 »
At 50,000 tons, there's not a lot of margin, even with just one collar.

Lagrange

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #8 on: 01 September 2024, 20:09:27 »
At 50,000 tons, there's not a lot of margin, even with just one collar.
Yes, but this is saying that you can lift 70k tons out of a gravity well.   I haven't fooled with it, but I expect there are some pretty usable designs with a single collar at 70k tons.  The 2-collar design here seems more marginal.

Daryk

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #9 on: 02 September 2024, 01:01:43 »
Fair point!

Gorgon

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #10 on: 02 September 2024, 02:25:23 »
It's quite interesting that you can build a jumpship planetside.  And carried as cargo, it might survive lifting to orbit as I don't think the thrust maximums apply to things carried as cargo.

Why go for 2 collars on the jumpship?  Just to prove you could do it?  Going with 1 collar looks like it would leave a much more viable jumpship design.

Yeah, that was just me trying to see if I could fit two collars on a ship small enough that it could fit into a dropship. Daryk had already done the math on the 50kt / 1 collar ship, so I wanted to see if two collars were possible. It could be worse, though. At least the crew got proper cabins and a life boat  :wink:
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DevianID

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #11 on: 08 September 2024, 20:46:24 »
Thats quite clever!  I like it.  I always saw dropships, civilian ones anyway, best used as pure heavy lift vehicles.  For moving around in space, the .1g thrust of space stations combined with the lower cost multiplier meant that anything not designed to jump or land on a planet should be built with space station rules when on a budget.  So the super cheap dropship as a heavy lift and also 'cargo' module for the jumpship, and space stations to do all the supply and in system transportation.  Its only 20 million at a glance for a 78k ton space station, so if a planet built 1 heavy lift 100k ton dropship, then they could use that to put ~35 space stations up (before adding any capabilities) for the cost of a second bare bones dropship.

Indeed, the dropship is more expensive then your bare bones jump ship!

As a further aside, it always annoyed me they got rid of most of the space station service areas, making space stations 'rare'.  In the clan invasion, pirates/independents had like 1 port that could do jumpship servicing/building at 'Stars End'.  Like, it shouldnt be that hard to build space stations if you have dropship services, and most places have dropship services.  I rather enjoyed in HBS battletech that several uninhabited planets had thriving populations in space stations, proving it was do-able and not that rare.

Daryk

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #12 on: 09 September 2024, 03:15:28 »
In TPTB's defense, space stations are ridiculously easy to shoot up and would have been priority targets in the early Succession Wars.

Gorgon

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #13 on: 09 September 2024, 17:26:14 »
For regular bulk freight within a system BT space stations work just fine, true. As Daryk points out, they will be easy prey if they're ever faced by serious opposition, but if you're deep in House space and need to move loads of ore from asteroid mining operations or something, they are a cheap solution.


Eitherway, I'm in favor of everything that if it helps selling Mountain Movers and similar monstrosities
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #14 on: 10 September 2024, 03:55:01 »
Would the low SI of the JumpShip be an issue when leaving a planet? You're exceeding 1 thrust by at least 2.
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Gorgon

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #15 on: 10 September 2024, 10:04:12 »
That's quite possible. I'm not sure if there are rules for that (or even rules for transporting Jumpships as cargo). I don't *think* its explicitly prohibited, but logically it could be an issue... Maybe final assembly has to be done in space, after all? The KF Drive (in my example) has an integrity of 3, so it might be ok for 1.5 g acceleration?

In the orginial discussion that sparked this design, Daryk talked about building Jumpships on / below the surface of a Mercury-type planet. Mercury has a surface gravity of ~0.37g. So half a g of thrust would get you into orbit. Under those very contrived conditions, a Jumpship's SI should not be an issue.
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Daryk

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #16 on: 10 September 2024, 18:58:15 »
That was me?  I don't remember it being me, at least not as the originator of that idea...

Gorgon

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #17 on: 11 September 2024, 03:03:51 »
My bad, you're right. cray came up with it.
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Daryk

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #18 on: 11 September 2024, 03:24:38 »
Thanks for the confirmation! :)

idea weenie

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #19 on: 11 September 2024, 18:05:30 »
That's quite possible. I'm not sure if there are rules for that (or even rules for transporting Jumpships as cargo). I don't *think* its explicitly prohibited, but logically it could be an issue... Maybe final assembly has to be done in space, after all? The KF Drive (in my example) has an integrity of 3, so it might be ok for 1.5 g acceleration?

In the orginial discussion that sparked this design, Daryk talked about building Jumpships on / below the surface of a Mercury-type planet. Mercury has a surface gravity of ~0.37g. So half a g of thrust would get you into orbit. Under those very contrived conditions, a Jumpship's SI should not be an issue.

Is this Integrity for structural (i.e. acceleration) or FTL strength (i.e. likelihood of breaking when performing a jump)?

Hellraiser

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Re: Bare Minimum JumpShip and Mountain Mover DropShip
« Reply #20 on: 07 November 2024, 15:31:17 »
It's quite interesting that you can build a jumpship planetside.  And carried as cargo, it might survive lifting to orbit as I don't think the thrust maximums apply to things carried as cargo.

Why go for 2 collars on the jumpship?  Just to prove you could do it?  Going with 1 collar looks like it would leave a much more viable jumpship design.

1.  Do we actually have any examples of a JS built on a planet v/s shipyard in orbit?   
Personally with space stations &/or asteroids, I don't think I'd bother.

2.  "Technically" the 2 Collars is useful if this same JS is going to carry the 100KT DS somewhere since at that size your looking at the old Behemoth/Oversized 2 Collars quirk.


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