Clanners with missiles

[Weirdo]

I'm still a FWL player at heart, so even for the Clans, when I think of fire support, I think of LRMs. There's a lot of missile-heavy Omnis and standard Mechs, but which ones give you the most bang for your buck? Is that light 'mech with only a couple racks worth it because it's so cheap, or should you go for the bigger 'mechs that throw out a veritable wall of missiles? I wanted to know, so I ended up creating a table that looks at all Clan 'mechs and vehicles and figures out their LRM/BV ratio to see which ones get you the most missiles for your BV.

Note: I've excluded units from XTROs and TRO: Prototypes for simplicity's sake, and also because we don't have a RS: Proto U yet. I also excluded Streak LRMs, since they're so different form normal ones that they're essentially a new beast.

Omnimech Nova Cat B Uller D Puma A Night Gyr D Nova Cat G Cougar A Crossbow Prime Puma C Ryoken D Stooping Hawk B Black Lanner B Hellion A Arctic Wolf A Thor B Hankyu D Vulture Prime Cauldron-Born C Nobori-Nin C Mad Cat H Crimson Langur A Grendel A Uller G Mad Cat Prime Mad Cat F Pouncer Prime Vulture H Arctic Wolf II Prime Blood Asp B Mad Cat Pryde Black Hawk D Turkina A Deimos Prime Deimos B Cougar Prime Dasher C Turkina X Ryoken I Shadow Cat B Fenris C Fire Falcon A Mad Cat C Turkina U Koshi Prime Masakari F Loki A Turkina Prime Shadow Cat H Linebacker A Crossbow H Vulture A Ryoken Prime Hellion D Ryoken Kotare Loki H Hankyu Prime Gladiator C Phantom A Cougar G Daishi W Thor Prime Masakari A Daishi X Crossbow A Kingfisher X Pouncer B Man O' War B Hellion Prime Cauldron-Born Prime Nobori-Nin A Nobori-Nin Prime Man O' War H Thor F Mad Cat B Black Lanner Prime Loki E Phantom Prime Kingfisher Prime Karhu A Masakari H Daishi Prime Gladiator P Masakari Prime Dragonfly D Linebacker Prime

LRMs    90 35 40 80 60 40 40 30 40 45 40 30 30 40 20 40 30 35 40 30 30 20 40 40 30 30 30 40 40 20 40 30 40 20 10 40 30 30 15 10 30 30 10 30 20 30 20 20 15 20 20 15 20 15 10 20 10 10 20 15 15 15 10 15 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 5 10 10 10 10 10 10 5 5

BV 2492    1142 1437 2889 2522 1697 1829 1372 1863 2111 1961 1543 1587 2159 1080 2351 1831 2199 2627 2003 2031 1368 2737 2764 2081 2097 2111 2885 2900 1450 2906 2188 2965 1485 759 3067 2319 2420 1211 822 2500 2520 871 2775 1948 2944 2155 2264 1707 2284 2319 1761 2382 1952 1334 2740 1410 1453 2951 2298 2399 2645 1797 2706 1836 1843 1873 1952 2034 2108 2183 2186 2224 2268 2304 1159 2401 2560 2601 2712 3052 3194 1779 2390

Ratio 0.0361      0.0306 0.0278 0.0277 0.0238 0.0236 0.0219 0.0219 0.0215 0.0213 0.0204 0.0194 0.0189 0.0185 0.0185 0.0170 0.0164 0.0159 0.0152 0.0150 0.0148 0.0146 0.0146 0.0145 0.0144 0.0143 0.0142 0.0139 0.0138 0.0138 0.0138 0.0137 0.0135 0.0135 0.0132 0.0130 0.0129 0.0124 0.0124 0.0122 0.0120 0.0119 0.0115 0.0108 0.0103 0.0102 0.0093 0.0088 0.0088 0.0088 0.0086 0.0085 0.0084 0.0077 0.0075 0.0073 0.0071 0.0069 0.0068 0.0065 0.0063 0.0057 0.0056 0.0055 0.0054 0.0054 0.0053 0.0051 0.0049 0.0047 0.0046 0.0046 0.0045 0.0044 0.0043 0.0043 0.0042 0.0039 0.0038 0.0037 0.0033 0.0031 0.0028 0.0021

Battlemech Kraken 3 Mandrill Ha Otoko Phoenix Hawk IIC 2 Thunder Stallion Peregrine 2 Thunder Stallion 2 Baboon Arbalest 3 Arbalest Ha Otoko 3 Ryoken II Snow Fox 2 Blood Kite Bowman 2 Behemoth 4 Kodiak 4 Blood Kite 2 Hellfire Ryoken II 2 Ryoken II 3 Deimos 2 Griffin IIC Warhammer IIC 2 Fire Scorpion 2 Jupiter Arbalest 2 Scylla Shadow Cat II Shadow Cat II 2 Bear Cub 3 Jupiter 2 Bowman Orion IIC Great Wyrm Highlander IIC Highlander IIC 3 Tundra Wolf Mad Cat Mk II Mad Cat Mk II 3 Wyvern IIC Spirit Ursus Shadow Hawk IIC 8 Ursus II Bear Cub Tundra Wolf 3 Grizzly Ha Otoko 2 Tundra Wolf 2 Bruin Jenner IIC 2 Warhammer IIC 9

LRMs    120 40 60 80 60 30 60 15 20 20 40 30 10 45 40 40 40 45 30 30 30 30 20 30 20 30 10 40 20 20 10 30 20 20 10 20 20 20 20 20 10 10 10 10 10 5 15 10 10 15 10 5 10

BV 2941    1209 1873 2892 2306 1191 2575 645 921 1029 2206 1801 604 2776 2567 2601 2728 3122 2114 2141 2336 2394 1608 2482 1749 2784 967 3897 2064 2106 1086 3278 2308 2392 1331 2979 3001 3131 3135 3168 1624 1673 1778 1940 2069 1052 3292 2219 2348 3626 2630 1406 2819

Ratio 0.0408      0.0331 0.0320 0.0277 0.0260 0.0252 0.0233 0.0233 0.0217 0.0194 0.0181 0.0167 0.0166 0.0162 0.0156 0.0154 0.0147 0.0144 0.0142 0.0140 0.0128 0.0125 0.0124 0.0121 0.0114 0.0108 0.0103 0.0103 0.0097 0.0095 0.0092 0.0092 0.0087 0.0084 0.0075 0.0067 0.0067 0.0064 0.0064 0.0063 0.0062 0.0060 0.0056 0.0052 0.0048 0.0048 0.0046 0.0045 0.0043 0.0041 0.0038 0.0036 0.0035

Vehicle Hachiman Heimdall B Ares (Plasma) Balac (LRM) Ares Mars Epona A Hephaestus A Badger C C Axel IIC Mars (XL) Morrigu Zorya Mars (HAG) Zorya (Ammo) Bandit C B Axel IIC (XL) Morrigu (HAG) Svantovit IFV Maxim (Clan) Svantovit (Original) Ishtar Ishtat (Original) Joust BE701 Ishtar (Gauss) Bellona (Laser) Athena

LRMs    40 60 30 30 25 45 40 15 10 30 45 30 10 45 10 20 30 30 10 15 10 15 10 10 15 10 10

BV 1484    2254 1201 1278 1151 2076 1976 768 537 1612 2520 1685 562 2545 573 1162 2003 2059 698 1147 889 1404 1072 1077 1616 1262 1855

Ratio 0.0270 0.0266 0.0250 0.0235 0.0217 0.0217 0.0202 0.0195 0.0186 0.0186 0.0179 0.0178 0.0178 0.0177 0.0175 0.0172 0.0150 0.0146 0.0143 0.0131 0.0112 0.0107 0.0093 0.0093 0.0093 0.0079 0.0054

Unsurprisingly, dedicated missile boats scored much higher than units with only a token rack, especially high-BV units that only have a 5 or 10-pack. Also not surprising is that the Kraken 3 is the clear winnier, being the only unit to break a ratio of 0.04. I'm pleasantly surprised at how well the Uller and Puma scored, proving to be some of the most efficient missile boats out there, or that the very expensive Night Gyr got up there as well, given the massive BV. Guess it's worth it, eh?

Also somewhat surpised at how poorly most vehicles scored. While the Clans have very few dedicated missile tanks, I kinda expected the Hachiman or Epona to score higher than that.

All in all, it proved to be an interesting thought experiment, and hopefully the data may prove of use to other players somehow.

[Vanadius]

I would really like to see something like this comparing C-bill cost to BV, for both IS and Clan tech.

[snewsom2997]

I agree, would need cost as well. But I think something around 1200-1400 BV with 40-60 missiles, would be better than a 3000 BV mech with 80.

[Iron Mongoose]

As usual, the Mandrills (or, in this case the Mandrill) right there near the top of the list (third place behind only the unbelivable Bain 3 and the fantastic Nova Cat B).

Now, I know Weirdo to be a sophisticated and clever player who understands the tactical implications of any mech choice, but for my part it is instresting to see the veriaty in speeds and weights at the tops of the lists.  Granted, slowness is favored by low BV so all the really top scores are slowish, but the 4/6/4 Mandrill is a far sight swifter than the 3/5 Bain, and there are some blindingly fast mechs in the .2+ catagory, such as the Baboon and Black Lanner B, along with some 6/9s and 5/8s (and the rediculious Shadow Hawk IIC2 at 5/8/5).  Given the high average speeds of clan forces, these are probably the go to mechs, rather than the .3+ mechs with more missiles and less speed.

Though you still can't lose with the Mandrill (its actualy a pretty solid mech for beating up on other light mechs, if you can get them cournered so they can't run or challange them to a dual, in addition to being a jumping pocket-Archer in the support role).

[Weirdo]

I would really like to see something like this comparing C-bill cost to BV, for both IS and Clan tech.

You'd need to find someone else for that. I don't touch C-Bill costs. Ever.

...there are some blindingly fast mechs in the .2+ catagory, such as the Baboon and Black Lanner B, along with some 6/9s and 5/8s (and the rediculious Shadow Hawk IIC2 at 5/8/5).  Given the high average speeds of clan forces, these are probably the go to mechs, rather than the .3+ mechs with more missiles and less speed.

I do tend to agree, especially given the above-average speed of most front-line forces. Clan assaults are often all about the blitzkrieg and maneuver warfare, so a pair of Ullers or Pumas will normally do you more good than a Night Gyr that will either get left behind, or slow down a fast-moving trinary. On the otherhand, even the Clans use assault Stars that are as slow as you'd expect, and there does seem to be a trend in many Clans towards a slightly lower ground speed in their high-end heavies in order to pack in more guns. For such formations, a Night Gyr or Nova Cat would be more appropriate. And of course, second-line units are predominantly defensive formations, so a slower 'mech is less of a hassle there. And I've faced Mandrills before. I hate the buggers.

What I find interesting is that there are NO truly LRM-heavy assault Omni configs. The closest we get are the Blood Asp, Turkina, and Deimos, and even then, the LRMs are partners(if not mere backup) to direct-fire guns.

[Jim1701]

The main downside to Clan LRM launchers is that while they are small enough and light enough to pack a truly terrifying number of tubes on a single unit, that many tubes requires an equally terrifying amount of ammo to feed them.  I look at the Bane 3 and see two huge (albeit CASE'd) ammo bins just begging to be critted.  In fact, given the CASE you have to worry about the pilot potentially taking two ammo feedback hits for four damage.  Fortunately you don't have to worry about falling for the fifth point since the engine would go with the second explosion.   >:D

[Weirdo]

Given the the Bane 3 empties a full ton of ammo every turn, I'm not worried about that one. you just draw shots from whichever location has the thinnest armor, and by the time they breach a spot, there's good odds that a fair chunk of those bins will be empty, and thus excellent crit-padding.

[Jim1701]

With each torso having 8 bins each I would start breathing easier after 8 rounds or so.  Even then there is STILL a 1 in 3 chance of hitting a loaded ammo bin.  But really a Bane's bane  :D is an early TAC. 

[Ian Sharpe]

Not really surprised to see the mech at the top of the list.  It was my second thought when I read what you were looking for. 

[Hersh67]

So don't play with TACs...

[Col.Hengist]

So don't play with TACs...

 A roll of 2 is still a ct possible tac.

[cold1]

Oh the evil that is clan LRM boats.  Imagine the first IS pilots that thought they were under the minimum range... whoops #P

[Fallen_Raven]

A) This lends credence to the idea that LRMs work best as a "go big or go home" weapon. Or at least that you need a lot of them to base a strategy around.

B) How did you generate this list? Just a simple MUL search, or did it require a detailed combing of TROs? I ask in case anyone is interested in doing similar investigations for other weapons.

C) I think you mean a different Ryoken. Perhaps the A? Because the Prime is lacking in any form of missiles.

[Alexander Knight]

Oh the evil that is clan LRM boats.  Imagine the first IS pilots that thought they were under the minimum range... whoops #P

Happened to me in a WLF-2 vs a Puma.  "What do you mean those LRM-20s have no minimum range?"

[Hersh67]

Happened to me in a WLF-2 vs a Puma.  "What do you mean those LRM-20s have no minimum range?"

Try a WLF-1 vs a Timber Wolf.  I think that was the shortest fight I've ever been in...

[Alexander Knight]

Try a WLF-1 vs a Timber Wolf.  I think that was the shortest fight I've ever been in...

Well....I did make the Puma click dry to kill me.   ::)

[Col.Hengist]

Try a WLF-1 vs a Timber Wolf.  I think that was the shortest fight I've ever been in...

 Phelan Kell said the same thing...

[Hersh67]

Phellan Kell actually lasted longer than I did.  He made Vlad miss a few times.  Those two PPCs hit, and I was legless.  Of course, I had just killed 2 Fire Moths prior to engaging the T-wolf.

[Stormcrow]

The major problem many, if not most, of the Clan LRM-equipped Mechs is that they very small ammo bins (1t of ammo per launcher or less with multiple launchers). It's part of the reason they lost on Tukayyid.

[Weirdo]

B) How did you generate this list? Just a simple MUL search, or did it require a detailed combing of TROs? I ask in case anyone is interested in doing similar investigations for other weapons.

Record sheet PDFs. Page through each one while glancing at the weapons list. If I saw any LRMs, I wrote it down.

C) I think you mean a different Ryoken. Perhaps the A? Because the Prime is lacking in any form of missiles.

I think you may be right.

[Sami Jumppanen]

Phellan Kell actually lasted longer than I did.  He made Vlad miss a few times.  Those two PPCs hit, and I was legless.  Of course, I had just killed 2 Fire Moths prior to engaging the T-wolf.

I think those were ERLLs.

[Sami Jumppanen]

The major problem many, if not most, of the Clan LRM-equipped Mechs is that they very small ammo bins (1t of ammo per launcher or less with multiple launchers). It's part of the reason they lost on Tukayyid.

More like not bringing enough reloads with them. Along with all the other supplies.

[Hersh67]

I think those were ERLLs.

Might have been an A configuration T-wolf.  Like I said, I had just finished off 2 Fire Moths then engaged the T-wolf.  Trying to buy time for my lance to bug out. 

[AJC46]

now just think if instead of the ATM clanners had a MML like system compatible with streak arty-IV and all potential alt ammo loads.

[ScannerError]

Very impressive list.  I'm surprised by how well some of the faster and smaller mechs performed, given the favoring of slower and larger mechs BV does.  Though they often have either criminally thin armor or single heat sinks. 

A list like this for the IS would be fun to see, but it would take forever to do.