I was thinking last night whilst in the bath (always a dangerous thing when I think, lots of heat and grinding of gears) about the Hells Horses. And about how they make little sense. You know, ‘The Vehicle Clan’, yet they still use the 2nd line stuff that everyone else uses bar two unique developments of their own, the Epona, and the Athena. At least until the Invasion and all the shenanigans after.
And this got me going ‘Okay..what if..’. We know that the loss of the Tokasha works hurt the Horses badly, but what if it hurt them worse, and with a sudden shortfall in Mech production forced them to adapt to the new reality that for the foreseeable future, we’re not going to be able to produce anywhere near enough Mechs, and trade/trial will not cover the shortfall. So instead they produce more tanks and equipment, not just pretending to have a combined arms approach. But actually going in whole hog?
This might have to very well move the loss of Tokasha forwards a decade or so or not to have it in place by the time of REVIVIAL by which point the Clan would be unique amongst the Clans of Kerensky for their tactics and the like, as much different as the Hellions are with their take on Zell.
Basically this was a case of ‘lets give the Clans a bit more flavour’ rather than just having different Furry OC ideas and generally very minor changes. If the Ravens are the Naval Clan, why the hell didn’t they update their ships or even commission new ones? If the Bears like assault Mech’s why didn’t they build their own 100 tonner etc etc.
And why didn’t the Tank Clan, go in whole hog.
So, and I’m just spitballing here. Some ideas;
1 – Maybe have the loss of Tokasha to the Bears followed up with heavy damage to the Industriaplex Alpha on Niles as well, and this basically makes the Horses scramble for new equipment as they just can’t replace Mech’s quick enough whilst Alpha is being repaired.
2 – This dependence on vehicles has them go “You know what…our tanks are RUBBISH for the most part…” and to survive they need replacement vehicles that can actually fight, not just look impressive to keep any Bandit’s away. Using good relations with the Coyote’s the Horses work with them to start developing new Tanks for not just PGC use but for combat alongside their MechWarriors.
3 – This might make other Clans go REEEEEEEE! Or it could make other Clans scoff at the ‘obvious’ Horse weakness and desperation so what do you think? In theory there’s no rules against using Tanks, just long held prejudices.
4 – Initial steps are just either IIC tanks of SLDF designs or the like but by the time REVIVAL comes around, there’s serious work going into OmniVehicles. Perhaps the other Clans are still hissy about this or laughing about it, and generally ignore it. Tanks and helecopters are not the true weapon of a Warrior after all. Maybe some see service in other clans but these are isorla only and outside of the Coyotes who also benefitted from this tech exchange
And with the Clan’s being the Clans they could then actually look into having ‘advanced’ things like track and hover skirt protection (so armoured motive systems) whilst also (re) developing Chemical lasers for second line/PGC units.
So you could see something like this
Castor Heavy Flak Tank
Base Tech Level: Advanced Mixed (Base Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced 3145+
Standard -
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D
Weight: 75 tons
BV: 942
Cost: 3,885,000 C-bills
Movement: 3/5 (Tracked)
Engine: 225 Fuel Cell
Internal: 40
Armor: 163 (Ferro-Fibrous)
Internal Armor
---------------------------
Front 8 36
Right 8 32
Left 8 32
Rear 8 28
Turret 8 35
Weapons Loc Heat
------------------------
Sniper TU 10
LB 10-X AC TU 2
Machine Gun FR 0
Machine Gun FR 0
Ammo Loc Shots
-----------------------------------
Cluster Sniper Ammo TU 10
Cluster Sniper Ammo TU 10
Cluster Sniper Ammo TU 10
LB 10-X AC Ammo TU 10
LB 10-X AC Ammo TU 10
LB 10-X AC Ammo TU 10
Half Machine Gun Ammo FR 100
Equipment Loc
-----------------------
ECM Suite [Clan] BD
(And I'd note that the Horses would go out of their way to point out that whilst YES it has got an artillery piece, its only ever loaded with Flak rounds.)
Or
Pakhet Battle Tank
Base Tech Level: Experimental Mixed (Base Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-E
Weight: 55 tons
BV: 1,012
Cost: 2,342,308 C-bills
Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 220 Fuel Cell
Internal: 30
Armor: 172 (Ferro-Fibrous)
Internal Armor
---------------------------
Front 6 37
Right 6 35
Left 6 35
Rear 6 28
Turret 6 37
Weapons Loc Heat
------------------------------
Ultra AC/5 TU 1
Ultra AC/5 TU 1
Medium Chem Laser FR 2
Medium Chem Laser FR 2
Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Ultra AC/5 Ammo TU 20
Ultra AC/5 Ammo TU 20
Ultra AC/5 Ammo TU 20
Ultra AC/5 Ammo TU 20
Ultra AC/5 Ammo TU 20
Ultra AC/5 Ammo TU 20
Medium Chemical Laser Ammo FR 30
Medium Chemical Laser Ammo FR 30
Appearing in a pre-revival setting. Whilst you might see this
Eris Assault Tank
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D
Weight: 100 tons
BV: 2,740
Cost: 21,727,000 C-bills
Movement: 3/5 (Tracked)
Engine: 300 XL
Internal: 50
Armor: 355 (Ferro-Fibrous)
Internal Armor
---------------------------
Front 10 82
Right 10 72
Left 10 72
Rear 10 56
Turret 10 73
Weapons Loc Heat
------------------------------
Gauss Rifle TU 1
ER Large Laser TU 12
LRM 20 TU 6
LRM 20 TU 6
Light Machine Gun FR 0
Light Machine Gun FR 0
Light Machine Gun LS 0
Light Machine Gun RS 0
SRM 6 FR 4
SRM 6 FR 4
Ammo Loc Shots
------------------------------------------------
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] TU 8
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] TU 8
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] TU 8
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo TU 6
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo TU 6
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo TU 6
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo TU 6
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo TU 6
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo TU 6
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo TU 6
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo TU 6
Light Machine Gun Ammo [Full] BD 200
SRM 6 Ammo FR 15
SRM 6 Ammo FR 15
Equipment Loc
-----------------------
Artemis IV FCS TU
Artemis IV FCS TU
ECM Suite [Clan] BD
Serving with an assault unit in the front lines
As far as we know the Horses have one of the larger Sibko turnouts and large groups of them so this gives them the manpower to start deploying tanks (assuming we ignore the idiotic crew requirements in the rules and go for a max of 5 man crews for the big vehicles an work down to 1 or 2 man crews for light bits of kit).
I was also thinking they could introduce a light and assault BA suit earlier than OTL as well, again, these guys are THE combined arms Clan, so why the hell didn't they develop other suits? Yes the bog standard Elemental is a very good gold standard, but you might need something else.
I had an idea for a heavy APC based on the Oro but sacrificing firepower for troop carrying capacity and having a big fat butt akin to this;
Yama IFV
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D
Weight: 60 tons
BV: 1,073
Cost: 7,980,800 C-bills
Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 240 XL
Internal: 30
Armor: 211 (Ferro-Fibrous)
Internal Armor
---------------------------
Front 6 52
Right 6 42
Left 6 42
Rear 6 33
Turret 6 42
Weapons Loc Heat
-------------------------------
LB 10-X AC TU 2
Medium Pulse Laser TU 4
Small Pulse Laser TU 2
Small Pulse Laser TU 2
TAG (Clan) TU 0
Ammo Loc Shots
-----------------------------
LB 10-X AC Ammo BD 10
LB 10-X AC Ammo BD 10
LB 10-X AC Ammo BD 10
Equipment Loc
--------------------------
Active Probe [Clan] TU
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Troops - 10.0 tons
Tha Yama's got superior protection to the Oro, its LB-10 can still engage tanks and Mech's and the lasers are for anti-infantry and general purpose work. But it can carry a double row of Elementals, with its infantry bay split down the middle. Unfortunately this is very cramped and once inside the Elementals can't move around much or even disembark from their suits making the Yama more a Battle taxi than the much larger and more roomy Aithion. Indeed, to board a Yama, Elemental's must reverse into the Troop compartment, so the last one in is the first one out.
There's also this
Iwisa Combat Vehicle.
Mass - 60 tons
Crew - 5 (Commander, Gunner, Driver, Radio/EW Operator, Defense System Operator
Max Speed - 64kph
Based on the hull of the Oro the Iwisa (named after the Zulu club weapon) was built to be cheap and serve as a Garrison forces heavy tank. Stripping out the fusion engine the Iwisa featured a large fuel cell engine capable of pushing the tank along at 64kph.
Whilst armed with 'new' weapons the Iwisa featured the chemical laser as its primary armament. A pair of large chemical lasers and a quartet of mediums sit in the turret and are provided with plenty of ammunition to allow for sustained firing. For anti-infantry defence the Iwisha bristled with four light machine guns in paired arrays on the side. Finally and somewhat curiously, a bulldozer attachment was added to the front of the tank. This attachment let it dig its own firing pits on soft terrain whilst also allowing the tank to serve as a clearance vehicle if needed when not in combat. It also let it shunt aside obstructions in built up terrain. The Bulldozer blade when not deployed can swing back and to the sides, splitting down the middle. The side sponsons did however have problems. Despite good vision for the driver and commander thanks to mutliple cameras across the hull to increase crew awareness, it was irritatingly common (for the Techs) that the side sponsons hit or snag on obstacles and be damaged, or broken off if the tank was going fast enough. Some crews would remove these sponsons entirely using the space for extra stowage but this was not an officially recognised modification.
Iwisa Combat Vehicle
Clan experimental
60 tons
BV: 1,033
Cost: 2,275,200 C-bills
Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 240 Fuel Cell
Internal: 30
Armor: 160
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 6 39
Right 6 29
Left 6 29
Rear 6 25
Turret 6 38
Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
Large Chem Laser TU 6
Large Chem Laser TU 6
Medium Chem Laser TU 2
Medium Chem Laser TU 2
Medium Chem Laser TU 2
Medium Chem Laser TU 2
Light Machine Gun Array LS 0
Light Machine Gun Array RS 0
Light Machine Gun LS 0
Light Machine Gun LS 0
Light Machine Gun RS 0
Light Machine Gun RS 0
Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Light Machine Gun Ammo BD 200
Large Chemical Laser Ammo BD 10
Large Chemical Laser Ammo BD 10
Large Chemical Laser Ammo BD 10
Large Chemical Laser Ammo BD 10
Medium Chemical Laser Ammo BD 30
Medium Chemical Laser Ammo BD 30
Medium Chemical Laser Ammo BD 30
Equipment Loc
----------------------------------
Bulldozer FR
Trailer Hitch RR
And speaking of the Aithion, definately gonna use this version.
There was also an idea that DragonCat inspired to make a Combat Engineering Vehicle and a bridging unit.
Aspis CET
Clan advanced
60 tons
BV: 678
Cost: 2,084,640 C-bills
Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 240 Fuel Cell
Internal: 30
Armor: 160
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 6 39
Right 6 29
Left 6 29
Rear 6 25
Turret 6 38
Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
ProtoMech AC/8 TU 2
Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
ProtoMech AC/8 Ammo BD 10
ProtoMech AC/8 Ammo BD 10
ProtoMech AC/8 Ammo TU 10
Equipment Loc
----------------------------------
Backhoe TU
Bulldozer FR
Lift Hoist TU
Lift Hoist TU
Mine Sweeper RR
Mounted Searchlight FR
The PAC-8 is there to blow up obstructions, not really to act as a combat weapon but to help the CET do its job.
and for the Bridging unit, which would be needed in rough terrain etc.
Bolo Assault Bridge.
Clan advanced
60 tons
BV: 737
Cost: 1,835,200 C-bills
Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 240 Fuel Cell
Internal: 24
Armor: 160
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 6 50
Right 6 35
Left 6 35
Rear 6 40
Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
Vehicular Grenade Launcher LS 1
Vehicular Grenade Launcher RS 1
Vehicular Grenade Launcher FR 1
Vehicular Grenade Launcher RR 1
LRM 5 FR 2
Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
VGL Chaff Grenade None 1
VGL Chaff Grenade None 1
VGL Chaff Grenade None 1
VGL Chaff Grenade None 1
LRM 5 (Clan) Smoke Ammo BD 24
Equipment Loc
----------------------------------
Heavy Bridge Layer FR
Fully Amphibious BD
Lift Hoist LS
Lift Hoist RS
!MechView.CarringCapacity!Troops - 5.0 tons
The LRM although mounted on the front is like those on the Mars, they are rear mounted but fire forwards, but it will only be able to fire once the bridge is out the way. The hoists are there to help build the bridge and the amphibious kit allows the Bolo to go into water to act as a support for its bridge if needs be.
And I was thinking that a simple way of deliniating between if a vehicle's for front line, second line or tertiary forces. Look at the engine. If its an ICE or Fuel cell, then she's for PGC and 2nd line troops, fusion is less mainline units and XL's go into full on front line forces. Although there's a large portion of fusion powered vehicles there too as XL's are more expensive to produce.
And sorry for the stream of conciousness, i've just got a few ideas bouncing around in my noggin'.
Like this thing which is in essence a Stermfuer IIC
Nergal Fire support tank
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-C
Weight: 85 tons
BV: 2,277
Cost: 6,117,025 C-bills
Movement: 3/5 (Tracked)
Engine: 255 Fuel Cell
Internal: 45
Armor: 297 (Ferro-Fibrous)
Internal Armor
---------------------------
Front 9 67
Right 9 60
Left 9 60
Rear 9 50
Turret 9 60
Weapons Loc Heat
--------------------------------
LRM 20 TU 6
LRM 20 TU 6
LRM 20 TU 6
LRM 20 TU 6
Anti-Missile System FR 1
Light Machine Gun FR 0
Light Machine Gun FR 0
Light Machine Gun LS 0
Light Machine Gun RS 0
Light Machine Gun LS 0
Light Machine Gun RS 0
TAG (Clan) TU 0
Ammo Loc Shots
---------------------------------------------
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] FR 24
Light Machine Gun Ammo [Full] BD 200
Equipment Loc
-----------------------
ECM Suite [Clan] BD
Another thought, as well as light BA, how about giving infantry forces PA(L) of some nature? Nicky K saw the value in the Horses way of war and even if they start restructuring their Tourman to go properly for combined arms, the other Clans may snarl and growl but the Horses could point at Special K and say 'He endorsed it, thus it is allowed.' And I might well have to nakedly steal the idea from MasterArminas' Scorpio Ascendant story and have the Horses also look at seeing if there's worthy people in Lower Castes that can survive training and the like to be accepted as Warriors. Whilst admittedly these might very well be shuffled into PGC's, its a good way of bulking up their Tourman.
I'd have to think about it and read through the Field Manuals for the Crusaders to see if they can get away with it. Going by the letter of the Law it seems to be yes they can, its more that the Clans follow the spirit of it and have stepped away from their society technically being a Meritocracy. There's nothing that deliberately prohibits such a change in position, just a huge cultural bias.
Another idea re Modular tanks/vehicles.
The first modular vehicles are a mix of fixed and podded equipment. If its got a turret you can swap the weapons out but stuff mounted on the hull is very much fixed in place.
I'm just spitballing here but what do you folks think?
