Author Topic: TRO 3145--Federated Suns  (Read 187009 times)

Rorke

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #690 on: 05 June 2013, 05:35:45 »
So...are we done discussing the Tech Readout now in favor of rehashing old arguments?

Sounds good to me, but you know sometimes things need to be straightened out first.

For the most part I'm enchanted with the various new toys Davion has.  The redesign
of the Templar is most pleasing, followed closely by the Omni Centurion.
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Acolyte

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #691 on: 05 June 2013, 05:43:33 »
So...are we done discussing the Tech Readout now in favor of rehashing old arguments?

Sure, how 'bout I say that I like what I see. Did you want me to salute, too?

I like the Fusilier, It's slow, but every one of them in the squad can take a Gauss round and keep coming. The Gunsmith looks awesome and is awesomely fast. I can see all kinds of mischief I can get up to Whit it. Speaking of mischief, the Destrier! The thing that really makes me giggle is the trailer hitch. I like the trailers in the mercs book very much.

It's also really nice to see a fighter gong fast again. Too many previously were 5/8, 6/9 or maybe 7/11.I like my speed in a fighter.

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SCC

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #692 on: 05 June 2013, 06:09:48 »
The Jihad and Stone's Peace really shock up the setting, we're debating/arguing as to how that should have effected some of the equipment we get in the book

mbear

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #693 on: 05 June 2013, 06:14:19 »
My thoughts on these units:
Sea Fox: Another suit not meant for line combat, though as the fluff says, it can excel in defensive operations, since you'll only deploy it where it would be useful. The 1-hex jump is interesting, though I'm not yet sure where it'd be most useful. Leaping out of shallow water, perhaps? Would definitely be nice in a RPG, where it can jump decently without the noise and light of jets. Do note that the presence of the cutting torch and LMG together makes this a VERY good boarding suit. Use them to defend the undersea command posts the Davions are fond of, or to try and take some of those large naval vessels Kurita has fielded. (I now want to play an RP where a Sea Fox team must board and neutralize a Subcapital Triton before it can move into position to blast attacking forces in a Davion counterattack.)
I can see converting one of these for space operations for Marines to use in boarding actions.
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Martius

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #694 on: 05 June 2013, 06:15:13 »
I like the trailers in the mercs book very much.


Same.  :)

You have seen the trailer the Destrier usually comes with in the RS section, yes? A beauty it is. Too bad the Legions will never get it.

RyuWanderfalke

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #695 on: 05 June 2013, 06:21:42 »
With the Ballista trailer, how "fast" would the thing move? 1/2?

Pa Weasley

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #696 on: 05 June 2013, 06:23:17 »
It doesn't have to move fast, it just has to lob big 'spodie things long distances.  >:D

Decoy

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #697 on: 05 June 2013, 06:31:33 »
The reason why most suits have one jump point these days is that everybody seems to want to push them out of Aerospace Fighters and / or VTOLS.
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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #698 on: 05 June 2013, 06:41:39 »
OMG. You guys I just saw that the Ballista artillery trailer has trailer hitches front and rear. So it could pull more trailers. (Yes, this may have been mentioned before, but there's 14 pages of posts to get through.)
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mbear

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #699 on: 05 June 2013, 06:45:18 »
Alot of these designs, like the Gunsmith, require the commanders to be really daring. Which is fun, but dangerous.

He who dares wins I suppose. It'll be exciting either way
Hasn't that always been the AFFS doctrine? Hell even their defensive tactics were more "Counterattack into enemy territory so we can distract them" than the actual defensive tactics of say the LCAF.

Speaking of which, I hope we see some Task Force Serpent/4th SW Sian raid type operations into the DC & CC. The Prey Seeker would be perfect for hitting worlds that are deep behind enemy lines. Like Benjamin. Or New Samarkand. Or Liao. Or Victoria. Or Detroit.
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Coldwyn

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #700 on: 05 June 2013, 06:47:53 »
OMG. You guys I just saw that the Ballista artillery trailer has trailer hitches front and rear. So it could pull more trailers. (Yes, this may have been mentioned before, but there's 14 pages of posts to get through.)

Take a look at TRO3085 Supplemental, the Teppo. The two trailers noted there can easily be crossed with the Ballista Trailer.
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Martius

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #701 on: 05 June 2013, 06:51:08 »
The reason why most suits have one jump point these days is that everybody seems to want to push them out of Aerospace Fighters and / or VTOLS.

Won't work with mechanical jump boosters however.

Jump boosters do not allow a unit to survive a fall.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18637.msg420176.html#msg420176

It is more that mechanical jump boosters allow faster ground movements for some.

A single standard 'jump jet' works however.

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #702 on: 05 June 2013, 06:51:27 »
I'm guessing that you, like me, mbear, sleep during the busiest posting hours

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #703 on: 05 June 2013, 06:56:28 »
Take a look at TRO3085 Supplemental, the Teppo. The two trailers noted there can easily be crossed with the Ballista Trailer.

The Destrier/Teppo synchronicity has crossed my mind.
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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #704 on: 05 June 2013, 07:00:00 »
The Destrier/Teppo synchronicity has crossed my mind.

It´s a bit ironic. Whereas the Teppo fluff says it is being used to keep command personal alive, the Destrier fluff talks about last stands to the death ....

On a more serious note, seeing those two units work in tandem would be pretty awesome. Also, some of the "regular" gun trailer from TRO:Mercs would add pretty well to sustaining firepower/area denial.

Ojn a not-so-serious note: that´s like an Ogre being supported by an Ogre .... Now bring on the infantry!
« Last Edit: 05 June 2013, 07:03:47 by Coldwyn »
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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #705 on: 05 June 2013, 07:51:27 »
OK, I will stick to the Mech contents of the TRO - liking most of the designs so far, there are some things I'm just not seeing, perhaps someone will enlighten me.

1. Prey Seeker; fast, shiny, cheap BV and lots of new toys but fragile. Great in fluff as a raider,  but how can I use it on the table top, I know we need the rules for the Engineered lasers but as it stands can't see me using it.

2. Gunsmith - Alien look alike, fragile engine but wow catch me if you can!

3. Hollander - use the same as previous Hollanders

4. Scarecrow - anti infantry, BA and vehicle - nasty, but limited use against Mechs.

5. Antallion - What ? looks strange and no clue as to it's best use - Mech mortar 4 ? ( need to re-read rules)

6. Centurion Omni- great trooper and other variants- UGLY AS SIN definite two bagger! please let the mini look better

7. Vulpes -  Nice! great Cavalry Mech  pure Fed Suns !

8. Black Knight - good variants - but shields?  too defensive?

9. Templar 111 - Oh yes- decent speed and firepower, good solid assault omni.

10. Atlas 111 - D3 as a commanders Mech makes sense, the D2 is just plain mean.

Any pointers for table top tactics of these new units welcome.

 

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #706 on: 05 June 2013, 08:16:00 »
You know...I was surprised we did not see the Centaur BA in this. I always thought the Suns would be the ones
crazy enough to make a BA with an artillery piece on it. I expect it, then, to be in the Marik..as they are the only
other Artillery Lovers out there.

BTW, am I the only one who sees the Marten, sees the Destrier and Ballista Trailer, and thinks "Hey! You got
Remote Sensors in my Artillery Range! No! You got artillery on my sensors!" The horror of: The Command Sniper,
some Destriers with Ballistas, and a some Martens deployed out....
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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #707 on: 05 June 2013, 08:28:48 »
1. Prey Seeker; ... Great in fluff as a raider,  but how can I use it on the table top...

You answered your own question here. The Prey Seeker will work best in dedicated raid scenarios, focused on getting in fast, destroying or grabbing something small but important, and getting out before the actual defenders can get to you. In a stand-up fight, bring one or two to a larger game. Use a distraction plus sheer speed to get the Prey Seekers into the enemy's rear. Go after lightly armored targets such as LRM Carriers or other lightly armored fire support units, Artillery pieces, Mobile HQs, stuff like that. If you're feeling REALLY gutsy, go for back armor shots on actual 'mechs, but be EXTREMELY careful when doing this. The key to keeping a Prey Seeker(or any other raider) alive and operational is to drive it as if not getting hit is more important than hitting the enemy. If hitting a target would expose you, don't go after that target. If all targets are covered that turn, don't go after anything, just run around and keep yourself highly visible.

Never let him forget that there's an enemy behind him, just waiting for him to leave an opening. You'll find that the psychological benefit will be more than any actual damage the 'mech does. He'll be wary of facing the rest of you head on with his full force, because he'll want to keep his back covered. If he detaches something to hunt the Prey Seeker down, you've just won that particular part of the battle because it means that he now has less 'mechs in the main battle than you do.

Long story short: The Prey Seeker doesn't win fights. It draws resources away from fights so that the rest of your guys can win.

5. Antallion - What ? looks strange and no clue as to it's best use - Mech mortar 4 ? ( need to re-read rules)
Long story short: 'Mech Mortars are indirect weapons that use more or less the same rules as indirect LRM fire, but hit like SRMs. There's even Semi-Guided ammo. Pair the Antlion with a spotter or use the built-in sensor dispenser for indirect harassment all day. Like the Prey Seeker, it's one of those 'mechs that doesn't win the big fight, it distracts enemies so you can ensure that your Black Knights and Templars win the big fight.
(Rules for Mortars and Sensor Dispensers are both in TacOps.)

8. Black Knight - good variants - but shields?  too defensive?

Again, you're exactly right. It is a defensive 'mech, meant to stand in a valley or on a bridge, say "None shall pass", and promptly back up those words. You want a good use of this 'mech, plop it down alone(or with minimal support) on a couple canyon mapsheets, and tell your local Kurita or Liao player to cross that map with twice your BV(Or however you balance things). Lemme know exactly how much of their stuff makes it off the board. 8)

BTW, am I the only one who sees the Marten, sees the Destrier and Ballista Trailer, and thinks "Hey! You got Remote Sensors in my Artillery Range! No! You got artillery on my sensors!" The horror of: The Command Sniper, some Destriers with Ballistas, and a some Martens deployed out....

Yesss...I can feel your evil...strike 'mechs down, and your journey to the Combined Arms Side will be complete! >:D
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wantec

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #708 on: 05 June 2013, 09:01:00 »
OK, I will stick to the Mech contents of the TRO - liking most of the designs so far, there are some things I'm just not seeing, perhaps someone will enlighten me.
Discussion on how to use the stuff, woohoo! Much more interesting to me.

1. Prey Seeker; fast, shiny, cheap BV and lots of new toys but fragile. Great in fluff as a raider,  but how can I use it on the table top, I know we need the rules for the Engineered lasers but as it stands can't see me using it.
With 12/18 speed, you save this guy for your last movement, making a fast pass in, striking at a wounded enemy or someone's rear arc. Next turn if you can still get a good defensive modifier, do it again, and again, until you need to run for cover.

2. Gunsmith - Alien look alike, fragile engine but wow catch me if you can!
Paul and a few others commented on this guy earlier, but you do the same as the Prey Seeker, but you fire everything until you get to about +12 heat, then run away to cool off before repeating.

3. Hollander - use the same as previous Hollanders
Obvious, although the design choices generally make it more survivable.

4. Scarecrow - anti infantry, BA and vehicle - nasty, but limited use against Mechs.
You're right on the AI, BA, and vees, but it can work against mechs too. It's got 3x Clan ERMLs, plus the MG arrays and the ER Flamers. The variant gives you more options for anti-mech work, but it's not as bad as some people think.

5. Antallion - What ? looks strange and no clue as to it's best use - Mech mortar 4 ? ( need to re-read rules)
I'm not totally sure, but based on the fluff, I'm guessing something with the remote sensors will help it drop arty without return fire.

6. Centurion Omni- great trooper and other variants- UGLY AS SIN definite two bagger! please let the mini look better
As for the looks, that's pretty similar to the DA mini, so you might be stuck. The variants are pretty nice, I just wish more of them took advantage of the space freed up by the compact gyro.

7. Vulpes -  Nice! great Cavalry Mech  pure Fed Suns !
Use the stealth armor to not get hit as you close to medium range, then drop it to use the rest of your weapons.

8. Black Knight - good variants - but shields?  too defensive?
The shields are an effort to match the stats to the mini/artwork as much as possible. Don't forget, any movement penalties have already been subtracted from the speed listed on the record sheet. The big thing is the shield lets you hide behind it some (more details in the Atlas section below) while shooting back.

9. Templar III - Oh yes- decent speed and firepower, good solid assault omni.
Most variants are pretty obvious, but use it like an oversized heavy, it's got the speed to keep up, and increased survivability. The B variant is a bit different. The Chain Whip (TacOps) gives you a chance to either trip, or grapple an enemy mech/Proto. The grapple will keep both units locked in their hexes and makes it easier to target in the weapons phase.

10. Atlas III - D3 as a commanders Mech makes sense, the D2 is just plain mean.
Like the fluff says, this is a commander's mech, both variants. Shields work in one of 3 modes, active, passive, or inactive. Inactive mode only protects the arm the shield is in. You can still fire weapons in that arm, but at a penalty. Passive protects the arm, and the leg and front side torso on that side. Again you can fire weapons in an area covered by the shield, but at a bigger penalty. Last is the active mode, which covers the arm, leg, side torso (front and rear), head, and CT. None of the weapons in a protected area can fire, but it covers the most area. The way both variants are designed, all of the long range weapons are on one side of the mech, and the short on the other. For the D3 I would run around with one shield in active mode, fighting at long range. If someone starts to get close, switch shields and open up with the short range stuff. And if they get really close, pull back both shields and give them everything.
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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #709 on: 05 June 2013, 09:11:56 »
Speaking of which, I hope we see some Task Force Serpent/4th SW Sian raid type operations into the DC & CC. The Prey Seeker would be perfect for hitting worlds that are deep behind enemy lines. Like Benjamin. Or New Samarkand. Or Liao. Or Victoria. Or Detroit.

I kinda sorta expect that Julian Davion's route back to the Federated Suns will include a Doolittle style raid on Sian. Or at least Tikonov or Sarna.


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RyuWanderfalke

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #710 on: 05 June 2013, 09:13:16 »
You know...I was surprised we did not see the Centaur BA in this.

Wasn't that mostly Lyran in MWDA?

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #711 on: 05 June 2013, 09:24:21 »
I'm guessing that you, like me, mbear, sleep during the busiest posting hours

As do I, part of the reason I am among the silent majority of Feddies who are keeping a stiff upper lip. That and I don't like repeating myself too often.

And thanks for the discussion on the right way to use the great stuff TPTB gave House Davion wantec, Paul, and the rest of y'all. I sadly haven't gotten back into playing the game yet so it's good to see such discussions.

Pa Weasley

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #712 on: 05 June 2013, 09:26:16 »
There was figures in RotS, Falcons, House Steiner, and House Davion colors. One TRO of those options down, three to go.

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #713 on: 05 June 2013, 09:31:33 »
I kinda sorta expect that Julian Davion's route back to the Federated Suns will include a Doolittle style raid on Sian. Or at least Tikonov or Sarna.

Would be interesting to see him hit Sian, well until the Cappies go all nuts on him that is
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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #714 on: 05 June 2013, 09:33:39 »
Long story short: The Prey Seeker doesn't win fights. It draws resources away from fights so that the rest of your guys can win.
Long story short: 'Mech Mortars are indirect weapons that use more or less the same rules as indirect LRM fire, but hit like SRMs. There's even Semi-Guided ammo. Pair the Antlion with a spotter or use the built-in sensor dispenser for indirect harassment all day. Like the Prey Seeker, it's one of those 'mechs that doesn't win the big fight, it distracts enemies so you can ensure that your Black Knights and Templars win the big fight.
(Rules for Mortars and Sensor Dispensers are both in TacOps.)

Wait...don't 'Mech Mortars also hit on the Punch Hit Chart?
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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #715 on: 05 June 2013, 09:50:54 »
Offtopic: the current setting is a great opportunity to play the underdog against terrible odds. I think it is just going to take some time for us FedSuns fans (read: myself) to wrap our collective minds around the concept, whereas others like Rorke already have done so.

On topic: Since the DCMS has a light mech flavor/preference historically, how does one handle the new Roku striker lances? Even with something fast and well armed like the Gunsmith, I'm having trouble seeing anyone put out enough damage to down a Roku before they lose initiative and perhaps then lose a leg. This becomes even more true when it is the ER PPC variant.

I played mostly in the 3005-3067 era, so I've used a lot of Valkyries and Javelins with the hodgepodge of bugs. Any thoughts on how to put down a mixed Roku/Panther lance without needing 8 mapsheets to give ground?

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #716 on: 05 June 2013, 10:06:54 »
Wait...don't 'Mech Mortars also hit on the Punch Hit Chart?

Very much no.
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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #717 on: 05 June 2013, 10:08:10 »
Wait...don't 'Mech Mortars also hit on the Punch Hit Chart?

I'm pretty sure we pulled that nonsense in errata.

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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #718 on: 05 June 2013, 10:12:07 »
All I know with all the new toys were getting in the DA, we may need a Tech Manual Part II to keep up.
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Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
« Reply #719 on: 05 June 2013, 10:15:01 »
Very much no.
But they are immune to AntiMissile systems, right?
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