TRO 3145--Federated Suns

[JadeHellbringer]

Seriously!  Do you know how icy the streets are in Saso?  I nearly broke my neck shaking my thing out there!  Spend some money on some road salt, ya damn Haseks!   ;D

What, you mean to tell me Daoshen didn't give you guys enough plasma ammo? It's freaking Styrofoam, how hard is it to bring a few spare blocks to keep the streets heated?  ;D

[RyuWanderfalke]

The conventional style as you put it mainly just regurgitates the stats,

No, what I mean is, why did the in-universe designer use this part, why did he include that technology, where did the new Clan-spec Laser come from, has there been problems during negotions for that necessary technology transfer, why was the production quality hampered resulting in subpar units causing quirk X and Y, when was it eventually handed over to the army... stuff like that.
I find that 10 times more interesting than "unit A was used by random dude B in an attempt to defend bridge C on planet D to deny enemy E access to city F, sadly he failed eventually after putting up a heroic fight killing 3 hostile mechs that I don't even bother to name in the process, utilizing guns G and H".

Dunno... maybe I'm weird. :D

[Jellico]

TAG has a range several times shorter than your main weapons. if the enemy gets close enough you need to tag for your own artillery, you've made a grave tactical error...

the point of the Destrier, AFAICT is to be the kind of heavily armored firebase that you'd park well behind your lines to be on call for TAG equipped units elsewhere.

With those big super heavies you ARE going to be immobilised. Then it's a matter of hoping the Hardened Armour will save you from any crippling hits before you get your kills. Objectively you have the armour of two assault 'Mechs and the guns of one and a half.

[SteelRaven]

The Fed Suns started testing home brew Clan spec tech just prior to the Jihad as shown in XTRO: Davion. 

[RyuWanderfalke]

The Fed Suns started testing home brew Clan spec tech just prior to the Jihad as shown in XTRO: Davion.

Thank you, I was aware of that. I just gave a general example and wasn't necessarily referring to this TRO. :P

[DarkISI]

Dunno... maybe I'm weird. :D

No, nothing weird. Tastes are different, especially where it comes to art.
For example, I don't like Lord of the Rings, because I find the writing just terrible. The story is very good, though.
Other people love it from front to back. No idea why. Can't understand it. But both opinions are 100% justified, because they are simply personal taste :)
Same for the TRO 3145 writing style. Personally, I really like it. But I also liked the TRO 3075/3085/Prototypes style. I even wrote for Prototypes as well as 3145, so I have done both.
From a writing standpoint the current style is actually a bit easier for me, because I can tell stories in a different way than I did for Prototypes (I used another, completely different style for XTRO Succession Wars, which was also fun to write).

So, long story short: You aren't weird ;)

[RyuWanderfalke]

That eases the mind.

I could actually tell you why some people like the way Lord or the Rings is written and others don't, but well, that would be a bit very offtopic. ;)
And I actually disagree... the story is actually not THAT good (anymore). The measure for fantasy has changed quite a bit in the last ~ 15 years. Lord of the Rings, for its time and what it did (basically create the Fantasy genre) was brilliant, but from a modern perspective... eh... merely good.

[Welshman]

TAG has a range several times shorter than your main weapons

Small note: The Destrier uses Long Tom Cannons, not Long Tom Artillery. That would be the Paladin. The Destrier is a short range beast designed to shatter buildings, not rain artillery across the battle field. That's why it has the Ballista trailer.

Given not much wants to get into the range of dual Long Tom Cannons, the usefulness of TAG is limited. And despite being 200 tons, there is not as much space to work with as one would thing.

[worktroll]

1. Prey Seeker; fast, shiny, cheap BV and lots of new toys but fragile. Great in fluff as a raider,  but how can I use it on the table top,

Move away from pure 'Mech-vs-Mech grinder scenarios. Putting Prey Seekers in the front line is throwing them away. The XXL isn't so silly, because any hit from a serious weapon rips off a section, there's no survivability to be had.

Look at battles like:

- 3x1 maps longwise, you've got a platoon of light vees, company of infantry with transports, and a dozen ammo carriers to get from one end of the board to the other, opponent has two or three Prey Seekers. Only getting ammo carriers offboard at the other end counts for victory conditions

- one 5/8/0 good heavy, or a couple of non-jumping mediums, have to cross three maps put short-wise - survivors of an attack trying to get back to friendly territory, against an equivalent tonnage of Prey Seekers. There should be significant terrain.

- 3x3 (or 3x2) maps with a supply dump in the very middle. Four Prey Seekers enter one edge, four slow light 'Mechs enter to the left, and some infantry around the dump. Prey Seekers need to destroy the dump and escape, opposition has to try to stop them.

W.

[MarauderD]

Curious: would a Prey Seeker appear on a 'Mech RAT as a light? Or as an Ultralight is it more of a special ops vehicle to be grouped with Sorteks and such?

[vergaul]

No, what I mean is, why did the in-universe designer use this part, why did he include that technology, where did the new Clan-spec Laser come from, had there been problems during negotions for that necessary technology transfer, why was the production quality hampered resulting in subpar units causing quirk X and Y, when was it eventually handed over to the army... stuff like that.
I find that 10 times more interesting than "unit A was used by random dude B in an attempt to defend bridge C on planet D to deny enemy E access to city F, sadly he failed eventually after putting up a heroic fight killing 3 hostile mechs that I don't even bother to name in the process, utilizing guns G and E".

Dunno... maybe I'm weird. :D

I agree with you completely.  The link between unit stats and fluffed battle performance is often so vague or unrealistic within the context of the game rules that I don't even care.  Talking about an epic bridge battle where a lance of Capellan 'Mechs held a bridge for 45+ minutes when I know any such game of Battletech lasting 45 in-game minutes would have resulted in far more destruction kind of ruins the battle reports for me.  Fluff text talking about supply issues or design choices made by manufacturers or possible links to other manufacturers for sourcing is more pure fluff that doesn't clash with the rules.  It may also create really interesting fodder for mercenary scenarios or ATOW roleplaying scenarios.

[SCC]

Question: Is it a good idea to have a Ballista tow a Ballista? Brownie points to those who can figure out what I just said.

[RyuWanderfalke]

I agree with you completely.  The link between unit stats and fluffed battle performance is often so vague or unrealistic within the context of the game rules that I don't even care.  Talking about an epic bridge battle where a lance of Capellan 'Mechs held a bridge for 45+ minutes when I know any such game of Battletech lasting 45 in-game minutes would have resulted in far more destruction kind of ruins the battle reports for me.  Fluff text talking about supply issues or design choices made by manufacturers or possible links to other manufacturers for sourcing is more pure fluff that doesn't clash with the rules.  It may also create really interesting fodder for mercenary scenarios or ATOW roleplaying scenarios.

Yeah, that's another often resulting issue.

[ColBosch]

This may be one of those things you guys are going to have to live with, sadly. Even when I was writing, the style was definitely shifting away from "re-state the stat block" and more about the universe fluff. Frankly, given that 'Mech designers are rarely the best players to begin with, I'd rather it be that way.

[Klat]

OK I just looked at the Vulpes and now I want lance of them  [drool]

I wonder, what would play well with the Vulpes? I could see the Ghost being usable but I'm sure there are a great many others.

[Decoy]

Anubisii. Just buy them through a shell mercenary company. The Magistry won't mind.

[sillybrit]

Talking about an epic bridge battle where a lance of Capellan 'Mechs held a bridge for 45+ minutes when I know any such game of Battletech lasting 45 in-game minutes would have resulted in far more destruction kind of ruins the battle reports for me. 

I understand your point, but the scenarios we play are generally very artificial, and not just about balancing sides, but more importantly that we as players don't really have a true investment in our units. In real life combat you don't push as hard, at least not if you don't have some sort of suicidal tendancies, because the combatants lives are actually at risk, so combat would naturally slow down in general, with hard pushes only coming in certain circumstances. Just look at combat reports from WW2 onwards where single units hold up far larger enemy forces.

It really is unrealistic how hard players push victories, that often result in a phyrric victory, but while not unrealistic, it is a lot more fun (and quicker) which is important in a game, so we live with the situation.

[Acolyte]

Sure, and if it was a good story rather than a twenty year long curb stomping by a fiat fueled super faction I'd love to read it. Unfortunately that's not what I'm getting to read.

 [fiddle] We've heard it. Please stop.

   - Shane

[Welshman]

Sure, and if it was a good story rather than a twenty year long curb stomping by a fiat fueled super faction I'd love to read it. Unfortunately that's not what I'm getting to read.

I guess this is why I enjoy Spanish, British and French History. Each in there turn were the most powerful force in the world and each in their turn slowly fell from their preeminence, only to evolve and change while still retaining much of what made them a culture.

And can we please remember that there would be no BattleTech without author fiat? The entire universe is fiat.

Thank you,
Joel BC
BT Veteran since 198....

[Klat]

OK slightly different 'Mech question; how do I Black Knight?

Someone up thread mentioned how to use the Atlas III shields to best effect but what about the Black Knight with its single shield?

[Crunch]

I guess this is why I enjoy Spanish, British and French History. Each in there turn were the most powerful force in the world and each in their turn slowly fell from their preeminence, only to evolve and change while still retaining much of what made them a culture.

And can we please remember that there would be no BattleTech without author fiat? The entire universe is fiat.

Thank you,
Joel BC
BT Veteran since 198....

Sure, I'm just not sure why I would want to hang around for the glorious uninterrupted march of Capellan Dominance to continue.

[Youngblood]

Sure, I'm just not sure why I would want to hang around for the glorious uninterrupted march of Capellan Dominance to continue.

Define "Dominance".

Also define "glorious" and "uninterrupted" and maybe "Capellan" too, but I'm most interested in your definition and use of the word "dominance" in this comment. :)

[nckestrel]

OK I just looked at the Vulpes and now I want lance of them  [drool]

I wonder, what would play well with the Vulpes? I could see the Ghost being usable but I'm sure there are a great many others.

I looked at the Vulpes (literally saw the art), saw the clan er larges, saw the speed (with masc!), saw the stealth and went "Awesome!"
Then I saw the heat.  Soooo close to awesome.
(Note, I still really like the Vulpes, but seeing the heat on it was a crash from a real high place..)

[Welshman]

Sure, I'm just not sure why I would want to hang around for the glorious uninterrupted march of Capellan Dominance to continue.

Like Death and Taxes there are two things certain in BattleTech

1- Things will change. The BT universe of today is very different from that of 30 years ago.

2- Herb's cats will always strive to defeat Randall's beard. It is an eternal struggle.

[worktroll]

Randall's Beard is currently estivating, so the cats have dominance.

But one day, the Beard will return to dominance as it did at GenCon in times of myth and legend!

[wantec]

OK slightly different 'Mech question; how do I Black Knight?

Someone up thread mentioned how to use the Atlas III shields to best effect but what about the Black Knight with its single shield?

Well, since the BK variants usually have a good long range weapon in the arm with the shield, I would keep the shield in passive or inactive mode (probably passive) and try to fight at long range. If someone gets close, then switch to active or inactive depending on how damaged you are, how dangerous the enemy is, and how many weapons you have in that opposite arm/side torso that could fire if you go to active defense mode.

[gooseman]

Randall's Beard is currently estivating, so the cats have dominance.

But one day, the Beard will return to dominance as it did at GenCon in times of myth and legend!

I too have heard to tale of the Once and Future Beard!

[Klat]

Well, since the BK variants usually have a good long range weapon in the arm with the shield, I would keep the shield in passive or inactive mode (probably passive) and try to fight at long range. If someone gets close, then switch to active or inactive depending on how damaged you are, how dangerous the enemy is, and how many weapons you have in that opposite arm/side torso that could fire if you go to active defense mode.

OK, so the shield on the Black Knight is used for close in engagements. That'd be great against LB 20s and other close in crit seekers. Thank you for clearing that up.

I find it interesting that the units in the DC TRO seem so direct while the FS TRO units seem to be highly flexible. I feel like each TRO has a personality.

[SCC]

Shields actually suck against LB-X's and other similar multi-cluster crit seekers, each CLUSTER, whether ir does one point or twenty, removes a single point of DA from the shield, house rules can fix this but

[Klat]

Shields actually suck against LB-X's and other similar multi-cluster crit seekers, each CLUSTER, whether ir does one point or twenty, removes a single point of DA from the shield, house rules can fix this but

Oh WOW  :o

So while keeping a shield active may protect from golden BBs it won't last long.