Author Topic: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?  (Read 11313 times)

Crow

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Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« on: 25 November 2019, 17:41:33 »
Has anyone ever played with the TO rule that gives -1 to initiative rolls with you have 7 tons or more of communications equipment (such as the Mobile HQ?

Did it make a difference? Or is that BV/tonnage better spent elsewhere?
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markhall

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #1 on: 25 November 2019, 18:05:40 »
Generally only field them in Scenario missions. Where they are an objective.

But 300 BV for an Initiative bonus feels worth it to me.
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Daryk

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #2 on: 25 November 2019, 19:08:32 »
If you're talking about the rules on page 194, it's +2 for 7 tons of Communications Equipment.  You only need 3 for +1 (and most units get 1 ton "free" with their controls/cockpits)...

Mendrugo

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #3 on: 25 November 2019, 22:47:45 »
Our group used a mobile HQ in the Jihad Chaos Campaign.  It consistently enabled us to win initiative, and that became such an advantage for us that the GM started specifically targeting the HQ.  When poor communication with the group resulted in the HQ being deployed on the edge of our formation rather than the center, it was swiftly obliterated.
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Apocal

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #4 on: 26 November 2019, 00:29:29 »
Did it make a difference? Or is that BV/tonnage better spent elsewhere?

It makes a difference, sure. But you can just field a cheap-ish command mech like a Phoenix Hawk or Wolverine to get the same bonus in a pickup game.

Hellraiser

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #5 on: 26 November 2019, 01:38:00 »
It makes a difference, sure. But you can just field a cheap-ish command mech like a Phoenix Hawk or Wolverine to get the same bonus in a pickup game.

P-Hawks & Wolverines don't have 7 tons of Commo gear for the +2 Initiative bonus do they?
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Apocal

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #6 on: 26 November 2019, 01:49:24 »
P-Hawks & Wolverines don't have 7 tons of Commo gear for the +2 Initiative bonus do they?

Oh derp, they only get +1 for command mech. It was battle computer I was thinking of for the +2 init bonus.

Ursus Maior

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #7 on: 26 November 2019, 04:36:22 »
Plus, you would need to play with quirks, which makes a lot of people itchy.

I regularly field Mobile HQs in combined arms depolyments. The initiative bonus and ECCM make nice additions and offer new possibilities.
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Kovax

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #8 on: 26 November 2019, 09:13:55 »
Q: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?

A: Depends on the size of the scenario.  As with any other "force multiplier", you first need to have something to multiply.  If you're only fielding 2000 BV per side, the initiative bonus might not be worth the BV price tag, rather than putting 300 more BV directly into combat capability.  With a larger force limit such as 10,000 BV, the 300BV gets pretty cheap for what it provides to the entire force, and the only limiting factor is how long you can keep the HQ alive against whatever the enemy decides to throw at it, given the amount of cover and concealment that the map provides.


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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #9 on: 26 November 2019, 09:48:03 »
It's dirt cheap, fast enough to evade heavy attackers, tough enough to survive a turn or twogetting shot at by lighter stuff, and acts as a force multiplier for your entire force. Why would you ever NOT use one? ???

To really get a feel for what one can do for you, play a game sometime where your entire force is fast, heavy cav, skirmishers, backstabbers, theworks. Include a single Mobile HQ. Lemme know how that initiative bonus works out for you.
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Crow

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #10 on: 26 November 2019, 12:45:51 »
It's dirt cheap, fast enough to evade heavy attackers, tough enough to survive a turn or twogetting shot at by lighter stuff, and acts as a force multiplier for your entire force. Why would you ever NOT use one? ???

To really get a feel for what one can do for you, play a game sometime where your entire force is fast, heavy cav, skirmishers, backstabbers, theworks. Include a single Mobile HQ. Lemme know how that initiative bonus works out for you.

Ah, good! So I did have the right idea!
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Daryk

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #11 on: 26 November 2019, 18:08:27 »
Maneuver forces thrive with initiative bonuses.

StoneRhino

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #12 on: 27 November 2019, 03:53:51 »
If you rely upon winning initiative then you have already lost it. Its a nice little bonus, but I have seen people absolutely choke even when they have won initiative 3 turns in a row. Then again it wasn't about the initiative roll results but a lack of ability. The modifier might be helpful or completely pointless depending upon the skill level and tolerance for risk of each side. If you can get the bonus at a low cost then its better to take it then not since if you are using the rule then you should assume that the other side is definitely taking it. Don't expect it to win the game for you, expect it to cancel out a slight advantage, and you won't be disappointed.

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #13 on: 27 November 2019, 09:16:49 »
Oh, absolutely. You still need a solid force and tactics. After all, no matter how big your force multiplier, if you multiply it by zero, you still get zero.

Just don't ever underestimate how much it can help said solid force.
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grimlock1

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #14 on: 27 November 2019, 14:47:08 »
Plus, you would need to play with quirks, which makes a lot of people itchy.

I regularly field Mobile HQs in combined arms depolyments. The initiative bonus and ECCM make nice additions and offer new possibilities.
If you are bring Mobile HQs to the table you have already opened up the can of worms that is "Tac Ops."
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #15 on: 27 November 2019, 15:08:57 »
Not necessarily. Remember that TacOps isn't a can of worms, it's a cupboard full of worm cans. Your dietary requirements concern me. It is perfectly legal(and quite common) to bring down and open one can while leaving others on the shelf.

How long do canned worms keep?
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dgorsman

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #16 on: 27 November 2019, 15:30:49 »
The MRE ones (mealworms, ready to eat) last at least a decade.  So... less than that, probably.
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Daryk

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #17 on: 27 November 2019, 16:47:47 »
Heh... when I statted out Star League rations, I gave them indefinite "good by" dates...  ^-^

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #18 on: 28 November 2019, 13:02:56 »
  My group only did campaigns with occasional training missions and any HQ asset was invaluable, where the players jockeyed for every advantage on the battlefield possible. Mobile HQs were always a primary target for destruction or capture. I have the distinction of capturing two of them in campaign...so due to the number of vengeful players, my own HQ vehicles often served as bait...

Daryk

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #19 on: 28 November 2019, 13:04:42 »
Beautiful... it's always nice when you have enough high-value units to serve as bait...  :thumbsup:

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #20 on: 28 November 2019, 13:22:47 »
Anything that helps prevent those 19 turn init losing streaks I inexplicably go on is welcome

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Col Toda

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #21 on: 03 December 2019, 10:36:25 »
From my view Command Console  is better . I remove the 3 Artemis IV FC systems  from a Naganata and use the tonnage for a Command Console . It is a C3 Master mech so it gets +2 initiative  and it can monitor up to 8 remote sensors  . All for 3 tons and 1 extra pilot . Communication  gear is 1 guy per ton to monitor  it. It requires  8 tons and 8 guys to get the +2 initiative  and the remote  sensor monitoring  and the C3 master lets you network  4 combat units to boot . So zero point in HQ Communication  gear . Depending on era.

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #22 on: 03 December 2019, 10:54:57 »
From my view Command Console  is better . I remove the 3 Artemis IV FC systems  from a Naganata and use the tonnage for a Command Console . It is a C3 Master mech so it gets +2 initiative  and it can monitor up to 8 remote sensors  . All for 3 tons and 1 extra pilot . Communication  gear is 1 guy per ton to monitor  it. It requires  8 tons and 8 guys to get the +2 initiative  and the remote  sensor monitoring  and the C3 master lets you network  4 combat units to boot . So zero point in HQ Communication  gear . Depending on era.

Which is not a Mobile HQ.

I have not used one in a BV table top game, but I am going to have to consider it since I like things like Locust 5M (huh, which I can play now since the Classic mini can stand in) and Phantom H . . .
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #23 on: 03 December 2019, 11:06:14 »
C3 Masters are a horrible thing to put on a command ride, unless the player is extremely disciplined. Anyone else will try to shoot with those C3 modifiers, which is the cardinal no-no of command. Commanders command. They do not shoot , unless confronted by headhunters.
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Insaniac99

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #24 on: 03 December 2019, 11:31:50 »
C3 Masters are a horrible thing to put on a command ride, unless the player is extremely disciplined. Anyone else will try to shoot with those C3 modifiers, which is the cardinal no-no of command. Commanders command. They do not shoot , unless confronted by headhunters.

In battletech the most common commander still leads from the front, commanding and fighting with with his troops.

Heck, when Grayson stole his marauder he commanded while fighting in an enemy mech with a popped canopy and, IIRC, a hand radio to relay orders.

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #25 on: 03 December 2019, 11:37:46 »
I differentiate between a commander and a guy at the front who happens to have a higher rank than his compatriots.

Besides, distracting commanders with combat is hardly the first criminally shortsighted thing we've seen become a staple of Battletech.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #26 on: 03 December 2019, 12:13:04 »


IS commanders never got far beyond the depicted point- which is not surprising since they do not have any field officer schools, they are stuck with 2LT 'leaders!'
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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #27 on: 03 December 2019, 16:47:34 »
In battletech the most common commander still leads from the front, commanding and fighting with with his troops.


  Yes, that's the "Hollywood" version. In campaigns, GMs, myself included, penalize any commander and unit for trying to fight and command at the same time. It can't be done unless you adopt the WW2 Soviet "hen and chicks" tactic, where units just follow the commander. That tactic resulted in battles being lost, including an air battle where the Soviet commander landed his plane due to damage, and the rest of his squadron landed as well. The Japanese planes easily destroyed them on the ground.

Insaniac99

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #28 on: 03 December 2019, 17:36:25 »
  Yes, that's the "Hollywood" version. In campaigns, GMs, myself included, penalize any commander and unit for trying to fight and command at the same time. It can't be done unless you adopt the WW2 Soviet "hen and chicks" tactic, where units just follow the commander. That tactic resulted in battles being lost, including an air battle where the Soviet commander landed his plane due to damage, and the rest of his squadron landed as well. The Japanese planes easily destroyed them on the ground.

Or literally any small unit tactics group.  If you have two people on a side in a military engagement, you get one that's the guy in charge or they die very soon afterwards.

  In any small unit engagement you have one guy making the shots where he is under fire and yes also firing off rounds of his own, because the reality is, if you have someone sitting safe from the engagement then they function off of incomplete information and you have to deal with communication break downs and other issues.

  Given most engagements in the BT universe are 4-12 units (and most formations are lucky to see above 12 units during massive parts of the universe history), yeah, the commander is usually on the field. Even if we are talking a large group, like a battalion or regiment, There will be commanders for the battalion, company, and lance, because the reality is that the more people under your span of control, the more broad you need to give your orders.  The Battalion commander tells the company to achieve Objective Y, the company commander will tell Bravo lance to so secure the LZ, but the Lance Commander will give detailed tactics since they have the most information.

Your flight example is actually a quite apt metaphor, in the modern military we still have squadron leaders and wing commanders and use them extensively, and they have operational command when deployed on mission.  But just because you have a commander, doesn't mean you put a brainless peon who can't think for themselves under him.

Daryk

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Re: Is a Mobile HQ worth using?
« Reply #29 on: 03 December 2019, 18:14:08 »
*snip*
IS commanders never got far beyond the depicted point- which is not surprising since they do not have any field officer schools, they are stuck with 2LT 'leaders!'
I tried to remedy that down in fan rules (link in my sig)...

 

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