Lost designs of MechWarrior 2 Mercenaries: Commando and JagerMech

[Fear Factory]

     MechWarrior 2 was the game that got me into BattleTech. Everything about it was awesome (when you're too young to notice any glitches) from the openish story, memorable pilots (dead-eye, I'm looking at you...) to the wide selection of 'mechs and weapons. To this day, I still fire it up in DOSbox and run through the economy enable campaign.

     Backstory aside, there are 2 'Mechs in this game that never got an official release. From what I understand, or what I can at least assume, "Team Venom" (in the opening cinematic this is the name of the unit I guess) is killed off and we're left to play the role of the surviving Commando MechWarrior.

     The Commando in this game is the stock COM-2D when you encounter it in battle. The COM-7X is the design or mod you start out with. The SRM-4 is removed, two more medium lasers are added (+1 in each arm) and another SRM-6 ammo bin is added where the SRM-4's ammo used to be. If I had to guess, this mod was created because of the hit detection bugs in the game and so the starting 'mech isn't so weak. Honestly, I don't know why the stock 2D would have been a bad choice in the first place, because in the DOS version missiles cause a lot of splash damage when they hit. It's a bit confusing if you decide to think about these things like I do (I actually prefer to run the stock ASN-21 Assassin in the early game because of this reason. SRM/LRM launcher splash damage seems to kill the opfor pretty quick).

     The design itself transfers over to the table top as a mod. It's basically a 2D with a different loadout. I haven't used it in the board game, but I assume it would play like a slower JR7-D Jenner. Pummel your enemy with medium lasers then crit seek with the SRM launcher. The only thing that hurts the design is the ammo bin placement. I'm OK with two tons of ammo, but if it was in one torso location it would help lower the threat of suffering an ammo explosion.

     Later in the game, during the babysitting mission or in the store, you encounter a JagerMech. This modification is actually pretty interesting. Again, I think the reason this loadout was changed was because of hit detection issues. The JM6-S is TERRIBLE in this game if you ever decide to create one and try it out. I'm crazy. I've done it. It does almost NO damage at all. If the board game had glitches like this the S would actually be a useless as most of your min/max players say it is. But again, there are still designs that keep autocannons on them despite this, so thinking about it too much might give you a headache. Alas, I'm pretty sure the JM6-B is a factory design in this game, since you can buy it from the store.

     The JagerMech in this game is designated as the JM6-B and seems to be a modification of the A variant from the table top game. It has the same armor loadout as the JM6-A and some of the same weapons. Each arm has a large laser, each torso has an LRM-15 and a medium laser, with two tons of ammo total and ONLY 13 heat sinks. This 'mech runs hot in the game, but it performs nicely, until your arms get blown off really quick.

     Converted to the table top, it seems like it could be a nice alternative to the JM6-A and S. It would be one of those designs that rides the heat curve. In all honesty, I don't understand why they didn't just stick with putting the JM6-A in the game. Autocannons still do damage, just not a lot, and the JM6-A isn't a terrible design.

     So what do you guys think of the COM-7X and JM6-B? On the table top, I think they could hold their own and even find a place on the field. Maybe not as house specific designs but some mercenary mods or rare factory designs floating around.

EDIT: Just for reference, I attached both of the design files.
EDIT: Scratch that, I'll post the designs in the custom thread and cross-reference them here.

JM6-B originally posted by Martian.
COM-7X also posted by Martian

[GermanSumo]

well... first off: they are designs for a computer game. their canonicity (and thus their availability for normal matches in tabletop) is in doubt.

that being said... in 3025 a 25 tonner with 6/9 movement, 3 medium laser and an srm6... it doesnt fit the era. for later eras its too slow to outrun the bigger guns. but in 3025 its quite fast and quite overpowered for a 25 ton mashine. you have assaults with less firepower. most of the mechs in 3025 are very little optimised. and many carry ac5s as main weapons. so i doubt it would be desireable to put this mech into the era. clan invasion and later maybe.

now lets look at that jagermech. 2 large laser, 2 medium laser, 2 lrm15... okay... only 13 heat sinks. on a mech that usually boasts ac/2s. this is a better stock archer or stalker 3H in 3025. too optimized for what we traditionally have. in later eras its glaring deficiencys would be its doom, rendering it unusable then. but in 3025 its definetly too powerful compared to the rest of the availabe lineup.

i think, this is why i think, those 2 mashines aer better not canonized for tabletop.

[Fear Factory]

well... first off: they are designs for a computer game. their canonicity (and thus their availability for normal matches in tabletop) is in doubt.

I know that. This is just a "what if" discussion, trying to imagine picking the brains of MW2's developers. There have been instances where PC game designs were later put into the game.

that being said... in 3025 a 25 tonner with 6/9 movement, 3 medium laser and an srm6... it doesnt fit the era. for later eras its too slow to outrun the bigger guns. but in 3025 its quite fast and quite overpowered for a 25 ton mashine. you have assaults with less firepower. most of the mechs in 3025 are very little optimised. and many carry ac5s as main weapons. so i doubt it would be desireable to put this mech into the era. clan invasion and later maybe.

I disagree. The era that both of these designs are in are 4th succession leading into the beginning stages of the Clan invasion. This guy actually packs a bit more concentrated firepower than the COM-2D. It would make a nice alternative.

now lets look at that jagermech. 2 large laser, 2 medium laser, 2 lrm15... okay... only 13 heat sinks. on a mech that usually boasts ac/2s. this is a better stock archer or stalker 3H in 3025. too optimized for what we traditionally have. in later eras its glaring deficiencys would be its doom, rendering it unusable then. but in 3025 its definetly too powerful compared to the rest of the availabe lineup.

You've never used a Rifleman, have you? Gotta ride that heat curve.

In all honesty, heat issues are a common thing during this era. The Jager would be worse than the Archer and Stalker, unless that's what you meant? I still think it's an interesting design.

[Maingunnery]

I remember that Commando quite well, but I always replaced it fast with a Panther.
I just need that extra range and JJs work really well in MW2: Mercs.

[Fear Factory]

I always sold it for a Jenner because it was too slow for me.

[Colt Ward]

well... first off: they are designs for a computer game. their canonicity (and thus their availability for normal matches in tabletop) is in doubt.

that being said... in 3025 a 25 tonner with 6/9 movement, 3 medium laser and an srm6... it doesnt fit the era. for later eras its too slow to outrun the bigger guns. but in 3025 its quite fast and quite overpowered for a 25 ton mashine. you have assaults with less firepower. most of the mechs in 3025 are very little optimised. and many carry ac5s as main weapons. so i doubt it would be desireable to put this mech into the era. clan invasion and later maybe.

How is it too powerful?  Its half of a Javelin 10F married to half a Javelin 10N, with less armor & no jump.

[Frabby]

This is interesting. I did realize that the player gets a special variant of the Commando, but I always thought it was a special goodie for the player. The JagerMech flew below my radar until now. Somehow I didn't expect other 'Mechs in the game that weren't straight canon. Need to look into this some more.

FWIW, my favorite Commando variant in a computer game is still the "Blazing Inferno" from The Crescent Hawks' Inception.

[Fear Factory]

I'm pretty sure the COM-7X and JM6-B are the only two special variants in the game.

It might be interesting to go over the "Blazing Inferno" in a future article.

[Demon55]

I'm pretty sure the COM-7X and JM6-B are the only two special variants in the game.

It might be interesting to go over the "Blazing Inferno" in a future article.

Hey Fear Factory,

I know the Flashman in the game went faster than 64.8 KPH if I am remembering correctly. 

[Fear Factory]

Actually, it did not!  That is a typo in the mech lab, in actual game play you move 64kph.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

In the MW2 engine, mechs that in tabletop moved 4/6 had a top speed of 73 KPH, for whatever reason.

Also, there really shouldn't be any issues with canonizing the two variants given all the Mechwarrior 4 mech variants that have gotten canonized like the Highlander 694 or Hunchback 6S.

[Liam's Ghost]

I feel like that Jagermech variant would work well as a Davion attempt to clone the Kurita variant Archer, using a locally available chassis.

[Fear Factory]

In the MW2 engine, mechs that in tabletop moved 4/6 had a top speed of 73 KPH, for whatever reason.

Also, there really shouldn't be any issues with canonizing the two variants given all the Mechwarrior 4 mech variants that have gotten canonized like the Highlander 694 or Hunchback 6S.

Huh. I thought movement was dependent on the planet's gravity. I haven't noticed.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It is dependent, and most planets seem to have below-Earth gravity, but for some reason the game engine altered the speed that way.

[glitterboy2098]

you know, i think the -2X commando mod missed some potential.. instead of dropping the SRM4 for 2 ML's and some extra SRM6 ammo.. it could have kept the SRM4, downgraded the SRM6 to a 2nd 4-pack, and installed a 2nd ML.. that would give you two ML's and a pair of SRM4's with twice the ammo endurance.. which sounds very much like a mercenary approach to me.

[Moonsword]

well... first off: they are designs for a computer game. their canonicity (and thus their availability for normal matches in tabletop) is in doubt.

The variants are canon to the extent that they exist in the MUL and are therefore an officially acknowledged part of the BattleTech universe.  However, no official record sheet or other stats have been issued for them that I'm aware of so they're not available for tournament play to the extent that matters to a given group of players.

[UnLimiTeD]

you know, i think the -2X commando mod missed some potential.. instead of dropping the SRM4 for 2 ML's and some extra SRM6 ammo.. it could have kept the SRM4, downgraded the SRM6 to a 2nd 4-pack, and installed a 2nd ML.. that would give you two ML's and a pair of SRM4's with twice the ammo endurance.. which sounds very much like a mercenary approach to me.

Well, it depends. Looking at MWO, I seem to remember (haven't looked at it in years) that they just allowed missile ammo to work for all launchers, independent of size. Same for HBS' Battletech, which I believe to be a splendid modern adaption of the system.
Which, in universe, would make sense for launchers from the same manufacturer.
So downgrading the SRM from 6 to 4, for the merc, might actually just be trading 2 tubes for a laser, whereas the existing 2X trades 4 tubes for 2 lasers.
The advantage being that you can use whatever kind of Medium Lasers, without having to source an extra SRM launcher of the same make - assuming this is a hangar mod.

[Luciora]

The ammo count would have to be 108 missiles total to be shareable across the 2/4/6 range as 100 shots is not evenly divisible by 6.  Or drop it to 98 shots if Battletech were to have shareable ammo across SRMs.

Well, it depends. Looking at MWO, I seem to remember (haven't looked at it in years) that they just allowed missile ammo to work for all launchers, independent of size. Same for HBS' Battletech, which I believe to be a splendid modern adaption of the system.
Which, in universe, would make sense for launchers from the same manufacturer.
So downgrading the SRM from 6 to 4, for the merc, might actually just be trading 2 tubes for a laser, whereas the existing 2X trades 4 tubes for 2 lasers.
The advantage being that you can use whatever kind of Medium Lasers, without having to source an extra SRM launcher of the same make - assuming this is a hangar mod.

[Ruger]

The ammo count would have to be 108 missiles total to be shareable across the 2/4/6 range as 100 shots is not evenly divisible by 6.  Or drop it to 98 shots if Battletech were to have shareable ammo across SRMs.

96 missiles, which is my preference as this gives your SRM-6 sixteen salvoes and only drops the others by one (SRM-4) or two (SRM-2) salvoes per ton of ammo...

Ruger

[Luciora]

96, right.   Still waking up hahah.

96 missiles, which is my preference as this gives your SRM-6 sixteen salvoes and only drops the others by one (SRM-4) or two (SRM-2) salvoes per ton of ammo...

Ruger

[Hellraiser]

you know, i think the -2X commando mod missed some potential.. instead of dropping the SRM4 for 2 ML's and some extra SRM6 ammo.. it could have kept the SRM4, downgraded the SRM6 to a 2nd 4-pack, and installed a 2nd ML.. that would give you two ML's and a pair of SRM4's with twice the ammo endurance.. which sounds very much like a mercenary approach to me.

THIS, only drop 1 of the tons of ammo for more Armor.

[Hellraiser]

96 missiles, which is my preference as this gives your SRM-6 sixteen salvoes and only drops the others by one (SRM-4) or two (SRM-2) salvoes per ton of ammo...

Ruger

Or they could have been smart & just had all ammo racks be 120 points which covers just about every weapon in the game till the ATM9 & larger MML racks appear.

[Nebfer]

You know what about all the generic vehicles in the game?

Don't recall seeing much info on them.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Part of the issue with vehicles in all of the MechWarrior 2 games was that the game engine didn't support them very well.  More than a few of them couldn't actually move and they didn't respond to damage at all like the tabletop game.

[The_Caveman]

Mechwarrior 2 (31stCC) mentions a "T5 reconnaissance variant" of the Tarantula in the mission Temper Edge.

AFAIK no such version exists (the machine in the mission uses the stock loadout but doesn't fire its weapons). The designation "T5" implies it was built in the Inner Sphere since the Clans don't bother with alphanumerics.

If you stripped all the weapons off the stock ZPH-1A you could install TAG, a Beagle probe, C3 slave and MASC. Would be kind of a better Ostscout. MASC would fit for a 'Mech that suffered leg damage while trying to evade Falcon patrols, and then got caught in an artillery barrage and lost in a snowstorm.