Gun safes.. E-lock or manual dial?

[garhkal]

For those who are collectors, shooters, hunters etc, IE those who own guns..  When you look for gun safes to store them in, who here prefers those electronic (OR E-locks), vs those who prefer manual dial locks.

For those who prefer manual dial locks, is there any specific reason?
For those who prefer the E-locks, is it because of ease of use??

[SteelRaven]

Not a gun owner myself due to budgetary constraints but have friends who invite me to the range and have worked with plenty of cash safes. This day and age, it comes down to personal preference. Most safe prices are based on the size and material used for the safe itself so the type of lock shouldn't be a determining factor in the price for a quality safe (a good lock is a good lock) The one benefit you have with a electronic key pad is that you can change the combination when you feel it's needed. One reason why most businesses use digital for their cash safes, they can change the code whenever there may be a security concern. The only bit of of extra maintenance is changing the battery, no more of a hassle than changing the battery on your smoke detector.       

[Tegyrius]

I recommend talking to your local safe dealer about this… preferably a safe specialist, not some random salesbro at Fleet Farm. Ask them about the volume of service calls they take on mechanical versus electronic locks.

[Daryk]

Also consider replacement cost if you have to drill one.  X-08s were notoriously unreliable.  I've had much better luck with X-09s and later models.

[garhkal]

Also consider replacement cost if you have to drill one.  X-08s were notoriously unreliable.  I've had much better luck with X-09s and later models.

Tell me about it..  ALL the comsec safes we had with X-08s on them, often had the board get shanked (due to the salt water in the air), compared to it rarely happened with our X-09s..

And Tegyrius, that's a good call in talking to safe dealers/repair folks..

[Daryk]

As the Security Manager on a carrier, I went through a whole case of the damn things...

[Prospernia]

I would recommend a combo, that you can easily remember.  I have a combo lock at my place, I use every day, yet, at times, I draw a blank.

I used to work at a cowboy-gun retailer; the volume horrible hang-guns we'd get shipped in, for repairs(not just ours), that would misfire or discharge on their own, made me never to have a pistol, ever. If I did, I'd keep it in pieces and have to assemble it, just to be safe.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Note also that in some states or municipalities, there may also be laws or regulatory requirements on gun safes.

[garhkal]

As the Security Manager on a carrier, I went through a whole case of the damn things...

Which carrier?  I was on CV-66 from 93-96, then on the Kennedy from 96-97...

[Daryk]

CVN-68, NIMITZ.  I even got to drive her around Cape Horn.  That particular day was beautiful.  Not so much the following week...

[garhkal]

Now a linked (in a way) side question.  DO you prefer screwing safes in, to where its secure to a Wall, OR bolt it to the floor??

[Tegyrius]

Now a linked (in a way) side question.  DO you prefer screwing safes in, to where its secure to a Wall, OR bolt it to the floor??

Anchored to the floor. It’ll take particular dedication to lift a safe off vertical bolts. Easier to apply lateral force (or demolish the wall).

You’re trying to accomplish two things with a safe (well, two anti-theft things). The first is keeping someone from opening the safe, whether forcefully or subtly, with the time and tools they have available (including your tools). The second is preventing them from sliding/rolling that safe into the back of a UHaul and taking it to a secondary crime scene where they have much more time to open it.

Also note that a safe’s security may be inversely proportional to the number of people who know it’s there. This includes household members, visitors, tradespeople, realtors… and anyone they talk to.

[garhkal]

Also note that a safe’s security may be inversely proportional to the number of people who know it’s there. This includes household members, visitors, tradespeople, realtors… and anyone they talk to.

True, the fewer folk who know its there the less risk of it being broken into..

[House Davie Merc]

E-Lock every day and twice on Sunday.

Most of the problems with them are from cheap locks
and people that don't change the batteries.
Buy quality and skimp elsewhere.
Most people won't believe this-but it's usually considered easier to break
into a mechanical lock then an electronic.

I have a pistol safe buy the bed with a Biometric lock on it and a key backup.
It's not meant for anything valuable-just to keep the kids out of the pistols
while maintaining quick access.
Keep the eye clean and it works great.

I've seen some kits for rifle safes out there to remove your keypad and
replace it with a Biometric eye on top and a backup keypad.
When we move I'd like to get one.

[garhkal]

Anyone done one of those attached to the bed-frame, under the bed sliding draw safes?

[idea weenie]

Just make sure you get a good gun safe, instead of one of these:
SnapSafe’s TrekLite TSA Gun Lockbox (4 minutes, has a mistake for one key and a mistake in the back)
Vaultek Lifepod (2 minutes, the company contacted him that evening with an update)
Vaultek VS20 (4 minutes, it is primarily good vs a determined adolescent)
Toriexon gun 'safe' (2 minutes, this is an amazing weakness)

[Prospernia]

Anyone done one of those attached to the bed-frame, under the bed sliding draw safes?

I've never seen one of those; in college, I worked a moving-company and, a few homes, had large gun-safes. Most people kept their safes in the garage, thankfully; the rest, kept them in their upstairs, master-bedroom closet.

[Hellraiser]

Now a linked (in a way) side question.  DO you prefer screwing safes in, to where its secure to a Wall, OR bolt it to the floor??

Most people kept their safes in the garage, thankfully; the rest, kept them in their upstairs, master-bedroom closet.

This is my current conundrum.

1st Floor safe secured to the concrete foundation......... or....... 2nd Floor safe that will only be secured by wood/drywall/flooring?

Decisions Decisions.

[garhkal]

This is my current conundrum.

1st Floor safe secured to the concrete foundation......... or....... 2nd Floor safe that will only be secured by wood/drywall/flooring?

Decisions Decisions.

At least upstairs, any thieves, need to get it out first, THEN get it downstairs...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

This is my current conundrum.

1st Floor safe secured to the concrete foundation......... or....... 2nd Floor safe that will only be secured by wood/drywall/flooring?

Decisions Decisions.

Basement.

[garhkal]

Depending on where one lives, one may not have a basement, let alone the capacity to make a basement.

[Hellraiser]

Basements in Arizona are not nearly as common as other states.

Which annoys me frankly because basements are cooler & god knows anything to keep temps down in AZ is a good thing.

[Prospernia]

This is my current conundrum.

1st Floor safe secured to the concrete foundation......... or....... 2nd Floor safe that will only be secured by wood/drywall/flooring? . . .

Either way, to move the safe, they'd have to invest some time and you'd have to be gone for a long-time for them to get it out; it would be easier to just crack the safe than to move it, so, either location doesn't matter.  And surely, there are things more valuable worth taking than guns  or a gun-safe like power-tools, jewelry, the original arm from the first T-800, Terminator, etc.

[deathshadow]

who here prefers those electronic (OR E-locks), vs those who prefer manual dial locks.

NEITHER.

Rotary / dial locks are a joke, in most cases easily manually decoded until you get up into safes that get bolted to the floor in concrete.

E-Locks are even worse since they usually have a mechanical key-lock backup that's easier to pick than even a cheap masterlock. No joke they're often three or less tumblers. To me e-locks, smart-locks, whatever you want to call them are poster children for what Scotty meant by "The more they overwork the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."

Thus I like the good old key lock. Sure they can be picked, but in the price range most normal people can have all of the above have issues. Of them the key lock is usually the most secure.

Hell, my old man built his own gun cabinet back in the '80's that was a joke... not because the cabinet was a joke -- had this giant hardened steel rod going across the front. The problem was that rod was held in place with a padlock you could shim with a cut up aluminum can.

Overall though I compare it to the locks on a car. It's only really there to keep the honest people out.

You want worst of the worst though? Some of the smart locks that are biometric or RFID.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcZPIfIbG5o

Though watching LPL will make you never trust a lock ever again.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

While it's true that there's no way to build a lock or home security device that is impossible to break into, there's still a point when most criminals will decide that it's not worth bothering with.  Especially when for every person who does keep their guns and other assorted valuables locked up in a safe there's a few dozen who don't.

[deathshadow]

Oh also it seems like the more "robust" the case and fancier the electronics, the more of a joke the mechanical fallback locks tend to be.

Though on the "portable" gun safes like the ones you'd use when transporting? Those can be just horrifyingly bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UB9j-P6JSk

[Daryk]

LPL is great!  Even government approved "high security" locks are only rated for so long against a determined effort to get in.

[Cannonshop]

Now a linked (in a way) side question.  DO you prefer screwing safes in, to where its secure to a Wall, OR bolt it to the floor??

YES.

that is, "Yes to both please."

Okay, here's my perspective;  a safe is like locking your car-it's not going to stop a dedicated professional, but the more difficult you make it, the fewer opportunists can make off with your valuables.

If you're bolting it down, and you can, then both to the wall, and to the floor is preferable to either/or.  mount in a corner and you can be bolted securely on THREE sides (wall, wall, floor).

if it's either/or, consider that most walls are drywall, over studs.  This is low structural integrity for securing an otherwise portable item.  the floor, on the other hand, is likely to be much more solid than that, and much more difficult to overcome, and floors are less likely to have electrical runs in them.

[garhkal]

NEITHER.

Rotary / dial locks are a joke, in most cases easily manually decoded until you get up into safes that get bolted to the floor in concrete.

True, but from the few school sessions we had, about breaking locks (for comsec reasons), the time it takes someone, to crack manual dials, most thieves won't have, unless they break into a home and TAKE the safe with them.. 

Thus I like the good old key lock. Sure they can be picked, but in the price range most normal people can have all of the above have issues. Of them the key lock is usually the most secure.

I wonder, if they've ever made a key lock that can't be picked??

Overall though I compare it to the locks on a car. It's only really there to keep the honest people out.

True, the determined will always get in, even if they just have to break it to get in it..

While it's true that there's no way to build a lock or home security device that is impossible to break into, there's still a point when most criminals will decide that it's not worth bothering with.  Especially when for every person who does keep their guns and other assorted valuables locked up in a safe there's a few dozen who don't.

We had a gal when i was stationed in Bahrain, who had her home stateside broken into.  HER two safes (One for her coins, one for her important documents), had a manual dial safe covering it up, then she had the electronic lock to get in.  Cops said the criminals cut into the first lock cover, but by the time they saw the second, the just left her home with what loot they stole already.  Compared to two other homes they broke into that they were able to get OODLES of stuff, because the owners had NOT ONE thing under lock and key...

YES.

that is, "Yes to both please."

Okay, here's my perspective;  a safe is like locking your car-it's not going to stop a dedicated professional, but the more difficult you make it, the fewer opportunists can make off with your valuables.

Would you care for a side of fries with that...

If you're bolting it down, and you can, then both to the wall, and to the floor is preferable to either/or.  mount in a corner and you can be bolted securely on THREE sides (wall, wall, floor).

Never thought of bolting it to TWO walls (in a corner) AND the floor...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I wonder, if they've ever made a key lock that can't be picked??

Not physically possible.