Time to buy a mech

[Colt Ward]

Back on Galatea after a successfully executed contract for the League (or some faction thereof) to raid the AFFC's supply chain in the Sarna March, your merc group- a reinforced  mixed company- got paid off, walked away with a share of the loot in prototype & new production weapons (LB-X-P, UAC/5 prototype, ER weapons, etc) the AFFC was moving to refit regiments, and have a reimbursement check for the loss of a heavy mech.  The command's admin managed to track down four mechs that are for sale in the price range the group can afford.  You are the purchasing agent and had the chief tech look over the four for any lemons someone was trying to offload.  Which do you recommend to the boss that the group buy make up the loss?

Banshee 3MC-  This mech made its way from the Periphery somehow to Galatea.  Along the way someone refit it with the new Double Heat Sinks, but currently its missing the PPC and AC/10 so its chest has cavities where weapon systems should go . . . but you have weapons to mount . . .

Cronus 3M-  Shiny new rare mech from the Free Worlds League, it was supposed to go to a Solaris gladiator but he and his career were both washed out of the cockpit of a fallen mech while waiting on this mech to arrive.  Nice thing is a Cronus will share a lot of parts with Dervish, Griffins, Wolverines, and Shadow Hawks that are pretty common in the IS.

Orion 1K-  Someone took this old familiar design and tweaked it . . . the AC/10 was downgraded to a AC/5 while keeping the same number of ammo bins while the LRM15 was upgraded to a LRM20 and gained a 3rd ton of reloads.  No armor or heatsinks were added to the design, just a shuffle of the firepower for more range.

Centurion 9A-  You can see the old AFFS paint on this mech, but with that history comes a surprise.  The Centurion had to have been refit for the War of 3039 before it fell into merc hands- its got a prototype LB-10X instead of the Luxor AC/10 and put CASE into each torso during that refit.

All of them are in the merc's price range and are functional provided the Banshee gets big guns from the merc's stockpile.

Your the purchasing agent, which do you buy?

[Ruger]

Depends on the rest of the unit, but you said this is a replacement for a heavy, so likely either the Banshee (nice upgrade potential) or the Orion.

If you want more mobility, the Cronus.

Ruger

[smcwatt]

Well, the Orion doesn't seem to have expensive new-tech parts to maintain, which is good for the budget minded mercenary. It is also in high rate production (for post SW era that is) so replacement parts should be easier to find, and there are 500-ish years worth of old chassis to strip from boneyards. Logistically, the Orion is the way to go.

SMc.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I’d go for the Banshee.  It makes for a solid anchor for a small force.  If you’ve got an ERPPC among those ER weapons, it’s pretty much a straight swap to drop that and the LBX cannon in, and with DHS you should have 0 heat worries.  Good long range damage, the flexibility of an LBX, and if they close they catch haymakers.  And the big guns, since neither has a minimum range.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, that's a solid choice with the Banshee.

[Starfury]

The Centurion, simply due to cost effectiveness and survivability with CASE. The Banshee, even with DHS, is more expensive to both refit and maintain then any of the other machines. The Orion is an excellent choice, but you lose out on survivability.  The Cronus his too focused on medium range brawling, and lacks the more focused ballistic punch of the other 3.

 

[Dave Talley]

Go big or go home
Or go big and go home

Take the Banshee and buy the centurion,
Put the fancy AC in the centurion, put the old one in the Banshee
add a PPC or whatever you have and you have two nasty troopers
who can keep up with the unit and the Banshee can still pimp slap as he wishes

[Daryk]

The Cronus is the newest 'mech, and will likely have the longest service life.  That said, it really depends on the rest of the unit...

[Wotan]

Normally i would prefer the Orion - but as a small merc unit i tend to have as many hands on the mechs as possible. So i vote for the Banshee.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Cronus is the newest 'mech, and will likely have the longest service life.  That said, it really depends on the rest of the unit...

Service lives in Battletech can be hundreds of years.  It's not really a factor to most prospective buyers.

[Daryk]

Let me rephrase: the Cronus has an active factory, so it will likely be easy to obtain replacement parts...  ^-^

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Cronus was hand-built until the 5M was developed in 3060.

But it was built to use with lots of common parts, so that's true.

[Dave Talley]

So the salvage pile of Griffin/shadowhawk/wolverine parts is a Cronus assembly line
😜

[Daryk]

So... Let me explain... no, there is too much, let me sum up: repair parts will be easiest to obtain for the Cronus.  :)

[Colt Ward]

So the salvage pile of Griffin/shadowhawk/wolverine parts is a Cronus assembly line
😜

To me, its one of those logistical benefits to the design . . . sure, its like the Wolverine with the weapons load, but its a design that can hang in the fight like the -6M.

[Dave Talley]

Had to look it up
Damn it's ugly, but I love the load out,
Slowly convert any 55s to that
Or one I want to try in the online version
AC10 2 mediums maybe Srm2 or just another laser and a sink

[Daryk]

I prefer the WVR-6M personally, but the Cronus isn't a bad design.

[massey]

I have a bias against the Cronus because it's a backdated design.  And, you know, because it's ugly as sin.  But it's actually a pretty good mech.

Still I'd go with the Banshee.  They've been around forever, so there should be a lot of spare parts you can find.

[snakespinner]

It would depend on the unit.
You want to replace the heavy go team Banshee.
If you want more ease of maintenance and don't care about firepower go Team Cronus.
But i must admit last time i went with something that ugly i'd been on a 3 day binge. >:D ;)

[RifleMech]

How much captured equipment did you get?

I'd get the Orion and then use the lack of weapons on the Banshee to lower the price and trade/sell some of the equipment you don't plan to use to make up the difference.

I wanted say the Centurion since it's already upgraded but that'd also make it more expensive. The Cronus is also new and shiny, thus a higher price tag. The Banshee is without weapons. If you got it you'd still have to spend time and money to arm it before you can use it. That leaves the Orion. Sure its a heavy but its not upgraded which means it wouldn't be as expensive. Plus its fully operational. It'd give you something to use while your units are being repaired/upgraded and the Banshee is being put together.

[Kovax]

I was under the impression that the OP had sufficient cash for ONE of the 4 'Mechs, not two.

As said, the Banshee has the most potential as a long-range fire support platform, but it's going to require down time and some repair rolls to put your salvaged high-tech weapons onto it.  Good if you have a long wait until the next contract, or bad if you need to put something in the field in the short term.

The Orion is ready to rock & roll, and can probably be upgraded at some time in the future with what you've managed to salvage (like an LBX).  A good choice to replace a lost heavy if you need something soon.  Possibly a better all-around choice if you can come up with 10 DHS to stuff into it when it becomes convenient to do the upgrades.

The Cronus is a good "cavalry" design, but probably isn't a great functional replacement for a Heavy.  Depends on your other units and what the force needs.

I'd leave the Centurion, since it's the lightest of the bunch, and the cost already includes high-tech upgrades.

[RifleMech]

I was under the impression that the OP had sufficient cash for ONE of the 4 'Mechs, not two.

Yes. That's why I said to see some of their captured equipment. To get more cash to buy 2.

I also don't know what kind of damage the OPs units suffered and if any repairs may still need to be done. That's why I said to get the Orion as its ready to go while the Banshee gets weapons.

[Von Jankmon]

Orion, hands down.  Its less of a monster than the Banshee which is woefully inefficient, the Orion is also a tinkerers mech making it a better mount for the nice guns you picked up.

[blackjack]

AS much as I love the Banshee the Cronus 3M would be my choice. Solid mech, good movement, armor readily available parts. As a merc you need a mech for all occasions.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Orion, hands down.  Its less of a monster than the Banshee which is woefully inefficient, the Orion is also a tinkerers mech making it a better mount for the nice guns you picked up.

How do you mean inefficient?

[Charlie Tango]

I'd lean towards the Banshee myself.  You're replacing a heavy, and without knowing the composition of the rest of the force,  the Banshee seems the easiest to plug into that tactical hole.  Especially with the DHS in place, that gives you a lot more flexibility in what weapons systems to put onboard to make that mech formidable.


The Orion just feels like even more of an ammo bomb in that configuration.  Would only pick if the heavy you lost was a similar fire-support unit like an Archer

The Cronus would be good if the rest of your force (or some element thereof) is designed to be heavy cavalry.

The Centurion seems to be more of a logistical issue waiting  to happen with supplying the LB-X ammo.

[Von Jankmon]

How do you mean inefficient?

It would cost the most to buy and the most to repair.  It's a walking engine.  Yes it has very good armour, but internals will bleed C-Bills to fix.  The Orion cuts the top edge a lot by dropping 20 tons and loses minimal performance in doing so.

Now the inefficiency doesn't translate onto the tabletop, but in an RP setting such as the OP gave I am certain it will.  Banshees are great for sleepy planets nobility to work for centuries so long as they don't have to fight much.  Mercs seek out trouble, they need efficient fighting machines.  75 tons is as big as you want to go without considering a speed drop, and a small merc unit doesn't want to sacrifice mobility.

[Daryk]

The Banshee COULD fit a Thumper and a Large Laser... Those DHS really open up options, even if it would be the most expensive to maintain.

[Dave Talley]

The Banshee COULD fit a Thumper and a Large Laser... Those DHS really open up options, even if it would be the most expensive to maintain.

if you go that route just use a long tom cannon or just go blazer

[Daryk]

There's not quite enough tonnage available to do a Long Tom Artillery Cannon properly (i.e., with enough ammo), but a Blazer Cannon would totally fit!  :thumbsup:

[Arkansas Warrior]

if you go that route just use a long tom cannon or just go blazer

???


Long Tom Cannons and Blazers both have very different roles from an actual artillery piece.

[Daryk]

I think he's just looking at the available tonnage.

[Dave Talley]

And thoughts of how to use an assault mech chassis
inexpensively in a Merc unit
Blazer, a couple mediums, a bunch of sinks and then just run him into the thick of it and start punching

[Daryk]

And kicking... 19 point kicks are nothing to sneeze at...

[Kovax]

The point is that a Banshee serves a very different role from an Orion, which again is different from that of a Cronus.  The Banshee's mass serves it well in melee, and it would be a beast if armed with weapons that compliment that role, but it would be a waste of tonnage and maintenance cost to use it as a fire-support unit where the Orion would serve, and an Archer would excel.  The Cronus would fit in with a lance designed for hit-and-run tactics, plugging holes in a battle line, or exploiting a weakness in an opposing line, but it's not geared for a stand-up fight against a line of heavies.

It all depends on what the rest of the lance is designed for, and how to compliment or support that role.  I can't tell you what you should get, because I don't know what you want or need.

[Colt Ward]

The point is that a Banshee serves a very different role from an Orion, which again is different from that of a Cronus.  The Banshee's mass serves it well in melee, and it would be a beast if armed with weapons that compliment that role, but it would be a waste of tonnage and maintenance cost to use it as a fire-support unit where the Orion would serve, and an Archer would excel.  The Cronus would fit in with a lance designed for hit-and-run tactics, plugging holes in a battle line, or exploiting a weakness in an opposing line, but it's not geared for a stand-up fight against a line of heavies.

It all depends on what the rest of the lance is designed for, and how to compliment or support that role.  I can't tell you what you should get, because I don't know what you want or need.

Well, its a matter of these are the mechs available to buy in their price range- you go to war with what you have not with what you want- and no changes in the foreseeable future since mechs are still hard to come by for lowbie mercs.  Assignments in lances can be shuffled to make either of the 4 mechs fit in, mercs have to make do with what they can get.

[Daryk]

Hmmm... a Blazer Cannon and a Thumper Artillery Cannon would fit, and nicely soak up your DHS.  Head capping goodness combined with AOE for fast movers and infantry sounds like a decent combination to me...

[Dave Talley]

Or depending on need it's got space and tonnage for
bunch of LRMs or SRMs

[Daryk]

Missile ammo is expensive, though...

[Colt Ward]

And it should fall under expenditures in the contract, never bought into the 'merc flashbulb' paradigm- besides it gives you a more versatile and useful force which is what gets you more contracts.

[Daryk]

That makes me wonder why Campaign Operations has a line item for non-combat ammo expenditure...

[Colt Ward]

Because it includes the outrageous . . . quarter ton?  half ton?  I forget expenditure a month to maintain proficiency.  Since your employer supports & maintains your force, you could include training ammo expenses I would guess.

But its a unrealistic ammo use rate that will also place a huge amount of wear & tear on the firing equipment.  I think we had a big discussion where vets were talking about it- replacing gun barrels, cleaning off the fouling of missile exhaust & AC residue, replacing gauss capacitors that no longer cycle properly, etc.  I know I showed a picture of a MLRS launcher that was ground to clear the fouling of a annual live fire.

[Daryk]

I remember that discussion too... I think the consensus was that "advanced technology, blah blah blah" won the day...

[Colt Ward]

Was it?  Honestly, I have and am ignoring that UNLESS its a cadre/training contract because a command is going to run simulators when possible and when using equipment live in the field, simulated munitions.  I mean, if I am on the gunnery range with mech-scale weapons I am going to fire training rounds-which should be a fraction of the cost of war rounds- and simulate weapons fire for most of the time.  We get a great description of that in Initiation to War when the Shu troops are learning to be mechwarriors.

[Daryk]

Campaign Ops does tell you to use the cheapest ammo as "training rounds", as I recall...

[Arkansas Warrior]

The point is that a Banshee serves a very different role from an Orion, which again is different from that of a Cronus.  The Banshee's mass serves it well in melee, and it would be a beast if armed with weapons that compliment that role, but it would be a waste of tonnage and maintenance cost to use it as a fire-support unit where the Orion would serve, and an Archer would excel.  The Cronus would fit in with a lance designed for hit-and-run tactics, plugging holes in a battle line, or exploiting a weakness in an opposing line, but it's not geared for a stand-up fight against a line of heavies.

It all depends on what the rest of the lance is designed for, and how to compliment or support that role.  I can't tell you what you should get, because I don't know what you want or need.

It's not as if the Banshee is only for melee.  Slotting in an ERPPC and an LBX10 makes it a good ranged hole-puncher that can also fight at short range, and is more durable than the Orion, having (slightly) better armor, better IS, and less ammo.  Given the DHS, it also has less heat woes.  It's not quite the bombardment platform that the modified Orion is, but it's a better generalist.

[RifleMech]

Because it includes the outrageous . . . quarter ton?  half ton?  I forget expenditure a month to maintain proficiency.  Since your employer supports & maintains your force, you could include training ammo expenses I would guess.

But its a unrealistic ammo use rate that will also place a huge amount of wear & tear on the firing equipment.  I think we had a big discussion where vets were talking about it- replacing gun barrels, cleaning off the fouling of missile exhaust & AC residue, replacing gauss capacitors that no longer cycle properly, etc.  I know I showed a picture of a MLRS launcher that was ground to clear the fouling of a annual live fire.

I use the AToW Companion rules for the price of training ammo. The ammo and maintenance costs for training should be included in the contract. It'd be to the employer's advantage to keep them well trained and alert instead of getting rusty and complacent.

[Thatguybil]

I use the AToW Companion rules for the price of training ammo. The ammo and maintenance costs for training should be included in the contract. It'd be to the employer's advantage to keep them well trained and alert instead of getting rusty and complacent.

This is why I don’t track it because the net is zero.
You buy the rounds for training.
Employer pays you for the rounds.
You replace the rounds.

Why track it?

[Colt Ward]

Because the old belief that 'flashbulbs are the best merc mechs, you do not have to pay out for ammo!' meme.  But you are right, I would not really track it- since you could be drawing on employer stocks even.  The only negative effect IMO was if you were in a siege situation and then . . . well, you usually do not have to worry about the skills getting rusty.

[Daryk]

Supply chains aren't always reliable, either.

[Kit deSummersville]

I tend to run out of armor faster than I run out of ammo.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The trick is to make sure you run out of targets.

[Hellraiser]

Banshee.

Then insert Standard PPCs & Standard ML's till you use up every bit of tonnage.

Nuff said.

[grimlock1]

As much as I have this bizarre fixation on Banshees, I'm leaning away in this case. Even a -3MC with double heatsinks and upgraded with LB-10 and ER PPCs and some medium lasers doesn't wow me. Also, the Banshee is carrying a whopping 9 points of armor over the Orion.    I kinda see where the Orion is going, but I'm not sure I'm liking it.  I just don't like AC/5s, although there is plenty of ammo to take chancy shots. I love light PPCs with the same range and damage, though.  If you go with the Orion, I would drop the AC/5 ASAP for a PPC and heat sinks.

Don't know much about the Cronus but depending on the heavy you are replacing both it and the Centurion might be too small. Centurion is like a scaled down Orion.  It's rarely the hero of the story but it's a great partner for just about anything.

My weird attraction to the sunglasses wearing monstrosity that is the Banshee is starting to win out.  Use those double heat sinks for all their worth and turn it into a flashbulb.  Paired PPCs in the arms, 6 medium lasers across the torso and an extra ton of armor. Going with 4 mlas would also let you brick the thing out.